Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Thoughts on AVCHD workflow?

Heb1228

Heb1228

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 3, 2004
2,217
1
Virginia Beach, VA
Here's what I've come up with in a couple of weeks playing with my HF100. I'd like to hear from some of you guys with more experience if there are improvements that can be made.

1. Use card reader to copy original AVCHD files (have .MTS extension)

2. Use Toast 10 to convert the files. By default it wants to convert them to Apple Intermediate Codec. I've been choosing custom and converting them to HDV 720p30fps (I've got the HF100 set to 30 progressive.). I did some comparisons with AIC and this has been giving me quality that is almost impossible to distinguish, but at about 1/4 the file size.

3. Import to FCP or other video editor. (I'm not sure if iMovie will import them, I've got a PPC Mac, so can't load the newer versions of iMovie.)


I keep the original .MTS files so I can go back and watch/edit them at full quality in the future, but this seems to be working fairly well for me right now.
 
N

NeoMayhem

macrumors 6502a
Aug 22, 2003
916
1
Sounds like a good idea for PPC. If you get a new computer I would use the full resolution files though.
 
tcgjeukens

tcgjeukens

macrumors regular
May 16, 2007
203
357
Esbeek, the Netherlands
Heb1228

AVCHD and PPC do not work together when trying to use default workflow, i.e. using Log & Transfer options.

The workflow you describe is a small detour, but it works.
I will NOT advise you to transcode your AVCHD files to HDV. You will loose quality. Especially since HDV is also not a "distribution" format. Meaning HDV again needs to be converted to something else. E.g. MPEG2 for DVD SD. Or H264 for DVD HD or FLV for web. In each conversion you will loose quality.

The :apple: workflow for AVCHD usage is: transcode AVCHD to AIC or ProRes. Edit in AIC or ProRes. Convert edited AIC / ProRes to required distribution format.

Do not feel tempted by files sizes. Filming in Full HD is HDD intensive. Ballpark figure: Reserve 80Gb for one hour of full HD (10Gb for MTS files and 70Gb for transcoded AIC/ ProRes files).

Cheers
Coen
 
H

huntercr

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2006
1,039
0
Heb1228 said:
Here's what I've come up with in a couple of weeks playing with my HF100. I'd like to hear from some of you guys with more experience if there are improvements that can be made.

[...]
3. Import to FCP or other video editor. (I'm not sure if iMovie will import them, I've got a PPC Mac, so can't load the newer versions of iMovie.)
[...]
Click to expand...

What's the criteria for iMovie working or not working on PPC? I have run iMovie 08 just fine on my old G5 Dual 1.8GHZ tower. Is this a new restriction for iMovie 09?
 
Heb1228

Heb1228

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 3, 2004
2,217
1
Virginia Beach, VA
tcgjeukens said:
...I will NOT advise you to transcode your AVCHD files to HDV. You will loose quality. Especially since HDV is also not a "distribution" format. Meaning HDV again needs to be converted to something else... In each conversion you will loose quality.

... Convert edited AIC / ProRes to required distribution format.
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure you're making sense. Both workflows have two required conversions.

AVCHD->(AIC/ProRes/HDV)->Output Format

I understand HDV may be more lossy on a technical level, but as I said in the OP, I've tried both and can't visually tell a difference. It may just be that a consumer camcorder like the HF100 doesn't take good enough quality video in the first place to make any difference. In other words, the ceiling on video quality is by the camera itself, not by HDV or the higher headroom AIC or ProRes.

My point is, if its 25% the file size with little to no loss in quality, I'm going to save the hard drive space.
 
tcgjeukens

tcgjeukens

macrumors regular
May 16, 2007
203
357
Esbeek, the Netherlands
Heb1228,

Heb1228 said:
I'm not quite sure you're making sense. Both workflows have two required conversions.

AVCHD->(AIC/ProRes/HDV)->Output Format
Click to expand...

The workflow steps you depict are correct.
Capture codec -> editing coded -> distribution codec.

In case your capture codec is HDV then to avoid loss of quality also select HDV as editing codec.

In case of AVCHD (on a Mac) you editing codec can NOT be AVCHD, thus the need to transcoded to an intermediate codec. On :apple: two intermediate codecs are defined: AIC and ProRes.
Note: HDV (as show in your workflow example) is NOT an intermediate codec.
HDV uses a 1:15 compresssion (compare to 1:30 for AVCHD). To convert your Mac first has to decompress 30:1 and then compress 1:15. A loss will occur ... but you are right ... maybe you won't see it.

And for the argument of file sizes: Editing in HD is HD space consuming anyhow, but I guess they would have told you in the shop when you bought your camera.
Btw: 1Tb costs about 80 USD/Eur (or less).

Regards,
Coen
 
A

akoj

macrumors newbie
Sep 7, 2009
8
0
My computer is an 2008 3.06Ghz iMac, Intel with the latest os X and for video editing I use Final Cut Express 4. I just got a Sony CX520VE that records .mts files in 1080/50i.

Now both Final cut and iMovie boast that they support AVCHD files natively, not for me they don't. I have an intel mac, i have software that's supposed to be able to handle the files, what's the problem?
 
M

mbell75

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2007
489
0
Heb1228 said:
My point is, if its 25% the file size with little to no loss in quality, I'm going to save the hard drive space.
Click to expand...

I agree with the ones who already commented, you ARE dropping the quality by doing it the way you are. You dont just magically get file that much smaller without sacrificing quality somewhere in the compression. Depends on what you want though. Hard drive space is dirt cheap these days. I just picked up a 1.5TB drive for $109. I would rather have the best quality video and have it take up more space than converting thru Toast and losing quality.
 
LethalWolfe

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
akoj said:
My computer is an 2008 3.06Ghz iMac, Intel with the latest os X and for video editing I use Final Cut Express 4. I just got a Sony CX520VE that records .mts files in 1080/50i.

Now both Final cut and iMovie boast that they support AVCHD files natively, not for me they don't. I have an intel mac, i have software that's supposed to be able to handle the files, what's the problem?
Click to expand...
Apple's definition of 'native' is the problem. All of Apple's editing apps have to transcode AVCHD into another codec. AIC for iMovie and FCE and the choice between AIC and ProRes for FCP.


Lethal
 
M

mbell75

macrumors 6502
Oct 30, 2007
489
0
LethalWolfe said:
Apple's definition of 'native' is the problem. All of Apple's editing apps have to transcode AVCHD into another codec. AIC for iMovie and FCE and the choice between AIC and ProRes for FCP.


Lethal
Click to expand...

This is a big reason I am thinking about picking up a Windows based laptop as well. My roommate can take AVCHD right off an SD card into Sony Vegas Pro and start editing. Doesnt have to be transcoded. Saves lots of time and as mentioned before, hard drive space
 
T

thedirtyduo

macrumors member
Apr 17, 2007
76
0
It doesn't take that long to transcode. It is an extra pain, but I do weddings that I've shot with over 250 clips all about 1-10min long and it's no big deal!

Would be nice thou.

That's why it's called an Apple, not an Orange.
 
S

Sir Gawain

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2010
7
0
FCE4 and MTS files

Kit is Mac Pro 12 Core and FCE4. Contrary to what is apparently advertised, Apple confirmed to me today that FCE4 (v.4.0.1) will not transcode MTS files to AIC unless they are in a particular file structure. Unlike other NLEs, such as Edius Neo, you cannot just Log and Transfer a bare MTS file. We have also not been able to import the Panasonic file structure out of HD Writer. I have tried a Demo version of Voltaic HD, but conversion of an 8-sec clip fails after 75% converted. Other Posters have suggested that Roxio Toast will convert to AIC by default but there is nothing on their web-site that indicates that. That leaves Pavtube, but there is no Demo download available for Mac, and one is hesitant to splash out if that too doesn't work. Any other ideas out there, please?
 
S

Sir Gawain

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2010
7
0
OK, there is a bug in Voltaic, which is referred to in their FAQ - Preferences for Custom conversion 'leak' into the default conversion, resulting in a conversion into Quicktime rather than AIC. You need to go into your Home Directory and delete the Voltaic file from the library, and then it works, if slowly.

As for Pavtube, (which seems to have an enhanced hyper-thread design) there is no Mac trial download advertized, but if you do download it, this is allowed as a trial. However, there is no mention of AIC in the Output options, just a mention of a codec suitable for FCE4 - but which is it? They all seem to be compressed.

I shall have a look out for Clipwrap. Thanks.
 
S

Sir Gawain

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2010
7
0
I've tried Clipwrap. Simple, seems to work for the clips from both my Panasonic cameras, is lightning fast and does what it says on the tin. Although the most expensive at $50, I have bought it. Why can't Apple supply this with FCE4????

Thanks for the suggestion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom