Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

dcl

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2006
177
0
Calif.
- Gave up on DROBO, as my solo back up purposes, it can be unreliable.

Looking into Online Storage, might be a better solution (OR IS IT!)
There are so many to choose from, so which one is the best at:
- easy of use
- upload speed
- Mac friendliness
- Amount of storage
- Limits daily Upload / Download
- Price / Available Discounts

After stripping out programs / operating system, currently would use far less than 150 GB of storage. Online would be accompanied with External Drive HD backups using SuperDuper!

Appreciate all feedback, experiences with online backup companies :apple:
- Dave
 

mlts22

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2008
540
35
Do you need backups or storage? For offsite backups, I'd go Mozy, because it offers unlimited storage (backup storage, not archival. Delete a file, 30 days later, it vanishes from your Mozy file storage.)

If you need secure online file storage, the above mentioned Amazon S3 app is good. However, just note that it can get expensive it you store a lot on it. One terabyte of data stored there per month costs about the same as buying an external 1TB drive last time I looked.

If you only have 150GB of stuff to back up, I'd consider just buying a small external drive. I am using a Maxtor One Touch 4 Mini for Time Machine in concert with Mozy. This allows me to recover everything should stuff go south from the drive, and in case both the machine and the backup drive get scrozzled, I can pull the files from remote for a rebuild (it will be slow, but doable). If you want hardware RAID that is transparant (which is better for a backup drive, but more expensive), I'd recommend a Western Digital My Book Mirror Edition (which is an USB 2.0 external drive that uses two hard disks and mirrors them, completely transparently to the machine.)
 

evilyankeefan

macrumors regular
Aug 12, 2007
200
1
I'm currently going thru the same "dilemma" right now. I want to have an off-site backup of some of my static files (eg. iTunes & Aperture library). I already back them up locally and I'm just not that keen on having an external drive locked up at work. I'm just paranoid in that respect. Other than work, I have no other place to store things off site so my options are limited.

I'm doing Mozy right now, but it is slow. Upload speeds are capped at 1Mbps and I have about 250GB to transfer. I can upload at higher speeds though as with any ISP this can fluctuate.

Jungle Disk has no restrictions on upload speed, but you pay by the GB in addition to data coming in/out. It's still going to take a bit to upload everything, but you can use Chronosync and the like to make sure incremental updates are accounted for. They are going to be adding their own data center to the mix soon which will eliminate the data in/out costs, but the price per GB storage fees can add up. Mozy is cheaper, but since it takes such a long time to upload I would really cringe if they were to go out of business and had to do this all over again. Amazon S3 is going to be around for some time so the extra costs would put my mind at ease. It's just like insurance IMHO.

I'm still on the fence whether to make the switch from Mozy to Jungle Disk.
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
Looks like Carbonite is setup for Mac now. I just merged all my files to one of my external drives and in the process lost every bit of data of my current PC desktop and laptop. I've got to find something that routinely backs up my existing and new files automatically. I think Carbonite is the answer for the new MacBook pro I have coming: http://www.carbonite.com/mac/mac.aspx

Chris
 

techound1

macrumors 68000
Mar 3, 2006
1,977
7
I'm looking too. MobileMe is too pricey - I just need to back up one thing, not have access everywhere. Carbonite looks great - anyone try it yet?
 

Agurri

macrumors 6502
May 8, 2005
289
0
Québec, Canada
You might also want to consider Dropbox. While it's kinda small (2gb), I like to way it's integrated into OS X. Drag , Drop & backuped. You should give it a try, I think it's still free on invite.
 

mrjosh

macrumors regular
Mar 5, 2009
115
2
I've been using Mozy for my PC. When I originally signed up, it was because I wanted cheap off-site backup and something I could eventually use with a mac.

So far I have been very happy with Mozy. One point I should mention is that the initial backup can take a few days. We'll see how things go when I need to use in conjunction with a mac (hopefully not too long from now :) )
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
Does Mozy backup all files are select files like Carbonite? Will it work under one account for external harddrives, mac and pc's?

Chris
 

mrjosh

macrumors regular
Mar 5, 2009
115
2
Does Mozy backup all files are select files like Carbonite? Will it work under one account for external harddrives, mac and pc's?

Short answer - I'm not sure. I believe that you can only back up one device per account, but you can choose which files/folders.

Here is the link if it helps:
Mozy Home

The other downside is that is does not archive so you cannot go back to previous version of files.

- J
 

dcl

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2006
177
0
Calif.
Has anyone tried SafeCopy Backup - looks interesesting, backup from multiple computers onto one account.

http://www.safecopybackup.com/

150GB | $50 per year

250GB | $75 per year

ONE account for ALL of your computers.

Problem I see going with these smaller companies is,
- how long will they be around
- how secure is my stored data
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
Here's a chat I had with carbonite:

2:23:09 PM chris
I'm trying to decide between Mozy and you guys, and I'm having a hard time deciding
2:23:58 PM chris
I just lost 400 gb of my entire life on one harddrive right before buying my macbook pro that should be arriving soon
2:24:40 PM chris
So, needless to say, I want to have a backup in realtime that constantly backups my existing and new files on a regular basis
2:25:05 PM chris
But, I've heard that Mozy backs up everything versus you guys only backing up certin things
2:26:22 PM chris
I'm a photographer, so I need to be able to back up thousands of pictures and video, as well, which I've heard you guys don't do either???
2:27:24 PM Adam S.
Carbonite backs up your documents on regular basis. Since it is a backup utility, you need to have the data stored on your system.
2:27:34 PM Adam S.
If you delete a file from your computer, Carbonite will schedule the file to be deleted within thirty days.
2:27:56 PM chris
So, just like Mozy then?
2:28:20 PM chris
What about my file types?
2:28:29 PM Adam S.
I do not have any information about Mazy.
2:28:57 PM chris
when it says it can backup any file type I manually select, is this true?
2:29:08 PM Adam S.
Right.
2:29:20 PM chris
Meaning, can I select my c: drive and it backup everything on it regardless of file type?
2:29:25 PM Adam S.
But By default, Carbonite backs up your documents, but does not back up application files, operating system files, and temporary files.
2:30:15 PM Adam S.
But By default, Carbonite backs up your documents, but does not back up application files, operating system files, and temporary files.
2:35:02 PM chris
What about file's larger than 2gb
2:35:06 PM chris
videos?
2:35:12 PM chris
.exe files
2:35:45 PM Adam S.
You can backup your videos, but it will not backup your .exe files.
2:36:53 PM chris
So, if I have a directory of pictures that are all over 4gb, how do I get it to back that up on a regular basis/
2:37:25 PM Adam S.
They will be backed up.
2:37:30 PM Adam S.
You need to select them for backup,.
2:38:01 PM chris
So, basically, is there a list of file types that carbonite won't back up even if I select them manually, such as .exe?
2:38:17 PM Adam S.
Yes.
2:38:37 PM chris
Also, after the initial backup occurs, it maintains the current, old, and new files indefinitely, right?
2:38:48 PM chris
Where's that list of excluded files located?
2:39:35 PM Adam S.
I have a list of file excluded.
2:39:49 PM chris
can you emal it to me:
2:39:55 PM Adam S.
If you wish, I can send the list to your email address./
2:40:33 PM chris
Also, just for clarification, will I need to specifically select each folder I want backed up, or if I just select c:/ will it do everything within that drive, excluding the banned list?
2:43:39 PM chris
you there?
2:44:16 PM Adam S.
Yes
2:44:21 PM Adam S.
I just sent you the mail.
2:44:26 PM chris
got it
2:44:31 PM chris
And my last question?
2:44:51 PM Adam S.
Yes.
2:45:11 PM Adam S.
If you select C drive for backup, it will select all the files within that location.
2:45:26 PM Adam S.
and doing this, may cause backup error.
2:45:39 PM chris
So, if I have 40 different folders that each contain large full resolution pictures and videos, I select the entire harddrive, it will backup everything within that drive, correct? Minus the excluded list?
2:45:52 PM chris
Backup error?
2:46:11 PM Adam S.
Correct.
2:46:20 PM Adam S.
And error occurred during backup.
2:46:49 PM chris
So, basically, if I add a new folder of pics that normally wouldn't be backed up automatically, I basically have to go in and manually do it each time is what you're saying, right?
2:48:36 PM Adam S.
You have to select the folder manually, but not every time.
2:48:51 PM Adam S.
Once you select it, it will be backed up and all the files within it will be backed up.
2:48:54 PM chris
Unless I add a new one, right?
2:49:01 PM Adam S.
Right.
2:49:11 PM chris
So, let's say I have Pictures Folder
2:49:31 PM Adam S.
Even if you add a new file within a backed up folder, it will be backed up automatically.
2:49:32 PM chris
Then 40 different folders labeled with dates, such as 1-1-09, 2-4-09, etc
2:49:51 PM chris
Even if it's a normally excluded file?
2:50:06 PM Adam S.
Yes.
2:51:26 PM chris
K, so if I have a file on my computer from 2 years ago, it backs it up and keeps it until I change/update it at which point it will only keep the old file for 30 days from the date I changed it, then just keep the new version, correct?
2:52:08 PM chris
And, if I use multiple external harddrives, does it back up those, as well?
2:52:16 PM chris
What if I have both a pc and a mac?
2:54:02 PM Adam S.
Chris, lets go one by one.
2:54:07 PM Adam S.
At present, Carbonite only backs up local internal hard drives. It will not back up network drives, external drives, and NAS (network accessed storage) drives.
2:54:22 PM Adam S.
Carbonite will keep up to three months' worth of old versions of the files in your backup. For example, if you edit a document daily over the course of three months, Carbonite will save one version for each of the previous seven days, one version for each of the prior three weeks, and one version for each of the prior two months.
2:54:42 PM Adam S.
The current Windows version of Carbonite is designed for 32-bit and 64-bit Windows XP Professional, 32-bit Windows XP home, and 32-bit and 64-bit Windows Vista. It is not compatible with earlier versions of Windows such as Windows 98, Windows 2000, and Windows ME. Our Mac version is compatible with Mac OS X 10.4 and 10.5 on Intel-based Macs only.
2:55:11 PM chris
Do I need to have two accounts, one for mac and one for pc?
2:55:42 PM Adam S.
You need to have two subscription, and can put them under 1 account.
2:56:07 PM chris
k, I appreciate your time...will check with Mozy now on the comparison...thanks,

I'm chatting with Safecopy right now on the same questions. Will post shortly.

Chris
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
I'm going to use safecopy:

hris:
Comparing to Mozy and Carbonite
Call accepted by operator chat. Currently in room: Chris, chat.
chat:
Hello Chris, I'd be happy to talk about Mozy and Carbonite with you.
chat:
Anything in particular or do you want me to give an overview?
Chris:
Here's my situation
Chris:
I have two pc's, and two mac's
Chris:
I just lost 450 gb of every bit of data on my pc's harddrives
chat:
sorry to hear that...
Chris:
I need a way to automatically backup my harddrives on all computers for a reasonable price
Chris:
Also, according to carbonite, they limit the types of files
Chris:
If I select my c drive, for example, does it limit the types of files on your system too?
chat:
Yes, Carbonite does have limits. SafeCopy does not have limits to the types or size of files.
Chris:
Okay, that's a step in the right direction for sure
chat:
As a recommendation, you will typically want to exclude system and program files since they typically have to be reinstalled rather than just having files restored.
Chris:
What about the external drives I have connected to my computers, as well?
chat:
External drives, USB drives, no problem
chat:
it's your storage, we want you to use it.
Chris:
k, just checking my notes...hang on for a sec please
Chris:
Do you have an unlimited plan?
chat:
We do not limit the number of computers you can backup in a plan, however we do limited the storage space.
chat:
We have a 150GB plan and a 250GB plan.
Chris:
Can you increase that?
chat:
Sounds like you need more, which we could increase for you.
Chris:
Yes, all my harddrives are 500gb harddrives
Chris:
and one TB harddrive, as well
chat:
Do you have 450GB of actual data or is that programs and system files as well?
Chris:
Well, that was everything just off my pc's
Chris:
I'm a photographer and do video, as well, which is why it's rather large capacities that I need
chat:
Ah, now that makes sense.
Chris:
What's the plan above 250gb?
chat:
On average people seem to have about 30GB of actual files.
Chris:
I have way more than that just in video.
Chris:
Thousands of pictures...or at least I did have...damn it!
chat:
I would expect it would be close to double the cost, but I'll have to get your email and send you an exact price for 500GB and 1TB plans if you like.
Chris:
k, work your magic: chrisrademacher@fastmail.fm
Chris:
Also, more questions before you leave, please
chat:
Yes
Chris:
So, how does it maintain it's backup exactly?
Chris:
Changes?
Chris:
Deleted files?
Chris:
How long does it store past copies onc changed, etc?
chat:
We actually keep deleted files (unlike Mozy and Carbonite)
chat:
You can delete them from your backup, but we don't.
Chris:
Ah, see you're hitting on all cylinders now
Chris:
Of course, because you want us to max it out and pay more...makes sense!
chat:
We unlimited versions of your changed files and you can restore any of them from our online interface.
chat:
True, and they want to conserve space on their "unlimited" plans
chat:

Chris:
Yep, they sure do
chat:
Regarding duplicate files...
Chris:
It's just like verizon's unlimited bandwidth plan that's limited to 5gb...go figure!
chat:
if you have multiple copies we only backup one automatically conserving space for you.
Chris:
Can you explain that a little bit more please?
chat:
that works for great for dupliate itunes, photos, etc on multiple computers.
chat:
it will "appear" in your backup like we have backed it up twice, but actually we only have to upload and store a single copy
Chris:
k, so that brings up a good point
Chris:
How does you I distinguish which files came from which computer?
Chris:
Meaning, if I have a computer crash, which is one of 4 computers, and I only want to restore it's files to that particular computer, how does that work since it's all together on your system?
chat:
they are all in separate buckets/folder structures for each computer
Chris:
Genius...
chat:
starts with "My Computers" and you drill into them from there
Chris:
If desired, if I have my macbook pro on the road with me, but I need a file that's from one of my other computers at home, can I log into your site and download it directly to my macbook pro
chat:
exactly
Chris:
k, so let's say I edit a file today that's been on your backup for a long time, how is that treated now?
chat:
you can also "search" for a file across all your computers Mac or PC
Chris:
Just the new file will be stored or both, and if so, how does it decipher them?
chat:
only the changed portions are sent for backup and it adds ad additional version to the file
chat:
you can restore any previous version
Chris:
Oh really?
chat:
Yes, when you view a file in our web portal, it displays the number of "versions" available for that file. You can click and restore to any previous version.
Chris:
So, if I've adjusted a file 5 times over the last year, I can go all the way back to the first version and restore it later if I needed to for some reason?
Chris:
Very cool...
chat:
I know it sounds like magic.
Chris:
LOL...
Chris:
So, in your opinion, is there some things that carbonite and mozy do that your site doesn't do?
chat:
We have a Mac client, Carbonite doesn't.
Chris:
Theirs just came out...not sure how stable, though
chat:
You need an account for EACH computer with theirs.
chat:
Cool.
Chris:
yes, good point
chat:
Our Mac client is little behind the features of our Windows client. but catching up quickly.
Chris:
in what ways?
chat:
We have a simple method to share large files where a private download link is sent.
Chris:
k, like that for sure
chat:
that's a nice feature and I'm not sure how Mozy or Carbonite handle it.
Chris:
Is it password accessible?
chat:
Never.
chat:
ah you mean the download link
Chris:
yes, sorry
chat:
no, just a link where you set an expiration date on the link when you send it
Chris:
k, good enough
Chris:
What else?
Chris:
How does it actually function on my computer and how demanding is it on my wireless and other normal computer functions?
chat:
Regarding the Mac client, the file selection process is currently a bit weak and being updated in a couple weeks.
Chris:
Does it stop working when I'm working on the computer?
chat:
yes, it includes an Auto Throttle technology which monitors your computer and bandwidth.
chat:
but our client is very small and typically not noticed...only a 3MB download.
Chris:
So, if I'm downloading something or using my FTP client for my website, it will deactivate what it's doing to maximize my computer's usage towards what I'm trying to accomplish?
chat:
It actually works all the time, but backs off when in heavy use.
Chris:
Gotcha, so 3mb/sec all the time, then?
chat:
No, the 3MB is the size of the installer.
Chris:
yes, gotcha...no worries there obviously
chat:
The file transfer happens in 100k encrypted chunks of data.
Chris:
K, gotcha
Chris:
When you say the mac client is not as good when selecting files as it is for the pc, can you explain a little further on the differences in functionality?
chat:
Yes, you can select the default of My Documents(which is an auto select of Users folder) or select an individual folder. Shortly we will allow for a tree of folders where you can select.
Chris:
When you say 250gb of space, this is pure storage space and has nothing to do with transfer to and from of files, correct? Any limitation to transfers of data?
chat:
I use a Mac and PC as well. We are also working to develop a unified client where the interface will be the same for all platforms.
chat:
Correct, unlimited transfer.
Chris:
And, of course as it's updated, it would automatically be included or grandfathered in, right?
Chris:
k, thanks on the transfer info
chat:
If you like you can go with the 250GB and upgrade if it's full.
Chris:
So, now for pc or mac, I can select my documents and it will backup all files and folders within that folder, correct?
chat:
YES, all the software is really just a tool to configure your backup and securely upload data.
chat:
All the searching, sharing, etc is done in our Web Console.
Chris:
Any other key differences/advantages/disadvantages between this and Carbonite and Mozy?
chat:
yes, you do not need our software installed to access/restore your files.
Chris:
Very nice...
chat:
also if you migrate from one computer to another it's a pain with carbonite/mozy
Chris:
Yeah, I've heard of people losing all their data because of the transition
chat:
With SafeCopy, just backup your old computer. move your data to the new computer and back it up as well. SafeCopy will only ding your storage for a single copy so you get to keep an exact copy of your old computer files as you had them organized
Chris:
Nice
Chris:
What about software?
chat:
I haven't used Mozy as much, but I can first hand that our client takes less system resources than Carbonite by far.
Chris:
k, good to know...
Chris:
I'm trying to think of anything else I'd need to know
Chris:
If I start with the lowest plan to start, will it automatically upgrade me if I run out of space?
chat:
It will not automatically upgrade you, but if you email support we can upgrade your account manually anytime. All your settings and files of course remain unchanged, we just increase the limit.
Chris:
k, anything else on why safecopy is the better solution?
chat:
automation on that is coming
chat:
YES.
chat:
From a technical standpoint our File System is superior. It's designed for online backup with native encryption, compression, search and fault-tollerance.
Chris:
Sounds good, not really sure what it means, though...lol
chat:
So rather than layering many third party systems to provide this, we have a storage platform which handles this.
chat:
No problem.
Chris:
Gotcha...what about security, encryption, key codes, and potential loss of data?
chat:
your files are encrypted before they ever leave your computer and then transferred in an encrypted session on top of that. then the storage system has built-in encryption so we couldn't get to your files without your login even if we tried.
Chris:
chances of you guys losing our data?
chat:
Designed to keep them in the event of multiple failures along the way...lots of safeguards and redundancies in place.
chat:
Biggest opportunity for a problem for any online backup service is someone getting your credentials and accessing/deleting your data.
chat:
So pick a good password! and keep it secure!
Chris:
k, so if I open an account now on my pc, I'll download the software, select what files I want to backup, and I'm done with this pc, right?
Chris:
Then on my macbook, what do I do to get it going, along with the two other computers, as well?
chat:
Yes
Chris:
What about my iphone?
chat:
then on any other computers, just download and during installation, select the option that you already have an account
Chris:
k, easy enough
chat:
the iphone app is free, just download and sign-in with your account
chat:
BTW, how did you find us?
Chris:
k, I'm going to start with the 150gb for now, since I just lost all my data anyways...time to rebuild
Chris:
Macrumors.com
Chris:
online forum
chat:
sounds good
chat:
thanks for chatting
Chris:
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
And, here's all the file types that Carbonite doesn't backup, even if you manually tell it to:

Hello and thank you for contacting Carbonite Customer Support.



The following folders are excluded from Carbonite backups:

"%WINDIR%\*",
"%TEMP%\*",
"%TMP%\*",
"\Recycler\*",
"\Recycle Bin\*",
"\System Volume Information\*",
"\MSOCache\*",
"\I386\*",
"\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\*", // skipped because most of this is system configuration stuff
"\Documents and Settings\*\Cookies\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Local Settings\History\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Local Settings\Temp*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\NetHood\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\PrintHood\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\History\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\NTUSER.DAT",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\*\Cache\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Opera\Opera\profile\cache*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Microsoft\CryptnetUrlCache\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Yahoo! Desktop Search\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Google\Google Desktop\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Microsoft Help\*",
"\Documents and Settings\*\Application Data\Carbonite\*",
"\Program Files\Carbonite\Carbonite Backup\*",
"\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Clipart\*",

The following file types are excluded from Carbonite backups:

.113; .$$$; .$DB; .ABF; .ABK; .AFM; .ANI; .ANN; .BAC; .BAK; .BCK; .BCM; .BDB; .BDF; .BKF; .BKP; .BMK; .BSC; .CAB; .CF1; .CHM; .CHQ; .CHW; .CNT; .COM; .CPL; .CPL; .CUR; .DEV; .DFONT; .DLL; .DMP; .DRV; .DRV; .DVD; .EOT; .EVT; .EXE; .FFA; .FFL; .FFO; .FFX; .FNT; .FON; .FTG; .FTS; .FXP; .GID; .GRP; .HLP; .HXI; .HXQ; .HXR; .HXS; .ICO; .IDB; .IDX; .ILK; .IMG; .INF; .INI; .INS; .IPF; .ISO; .ISP; .ITS; .JAR; .JSE; .KBD; .KEXT; .KEY; .LEX; .LIB; .LNK; .LOG; .LWFN; .MSC; .MSI; .MSM; .MSP; .MST; .NCB; .NT; .OBJ; .OBS; .OCX; .OLD; .OST; .OTF; .OTF; .PCH; .PF; .PFA; .PFB; .PFM; .PLIST; .PNF; .POL; .PREF; .PRF; .PRG; .PRN; .PWL; .RDB; .REG; .REG; .RLL; .ROX; .SBR; .SCF; .SCR; .SDB; .SHB; .SUIT; .SWF; .SWP; .SYS; .SYS; .THEME; .TMP; .TMS; .TTC; .TTF; .TTF; .V2I; .VBE; .VGA; .VGD; .VHD; .VMC; .VMDK; .VMSD; .VMSN; .VMX; .VXD; .VXD; .WIN; .WPK;


system/;dtSearch*;Intermediate *;VMWare*;Virtual PC*;Virtual Machine*

Additionally, music and video files are excluded during free trial subscriptions of Carbonite, and files larger than 4GB must be selected manually. (Right-click the file and select Back this up from the Carbonite context menu to select it for backup.)
 

dcl

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2006
177
0
Calif.
Downloaded Free SafeCopy Backup: (1G and only 7 Day trial a little skimpy):(

- Install failed on me (anyone else having install problems ?):mad:

Chris would be interested in what they quote you for higher storage limits.

- Dave
 

ravencr

macrumors member
Mar 3, 2009
80
0
He's going to email me a quote for higher limits. Mine's uploading right now as we speak, and it's not effecting my computer's functionality at all, which is nice. I'm on a pc right now, though.

Chris
 

mcruzader

macrumors regular
Sep 10, 2008
151
0
You might also want to check out backblaze. I use them and its pretty straightforward to back up.
 

dcl

macrumors regular
Original poster
May 28, 2006
177
0
Calif.
SafeCopy PC Software worked flawless

Backblaze a little restrictive if you need to restore data.

"When restoring files, Backblaze limits each download to 1 gigabyte at a time. Or the company says it will overnight a DVD with 4 gigabytes for $100, or a USB hard drive with all the files for about twice that."
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.