The unofficial "I'm Waiting for Arrandale" thread...

[spaceballl]

As of July 24, most recent release info here.
As of Nov 15, most recent release info here.

Everyone loves a good laptop update, but the Penryn processors in the most recent updates are the same CPUs we had almost a year ago. As much as I love the new MBP design, I'm going to keep my non-unibody Penryn until late 2009 or early 2010, when we get Intel's newest chips, codenamed Arrandale. If you need a briefing about the chip, check here. To quote the article...

The 32nm Clarkdale/Arrandale parts arriving by the end of this year really means one very important thing: the time to buy a new notebook will be either in Q4 2009 or Q1 2010. A 2-core, 4-thread 32nm Westmere derivative is not only going to put current Penryn cores to shame, it’s going to be extremely power efficient. In its briefing yesterday, Intel mentioned that while Clarkdale/Arrandale clock speeds and TDPs would be similar to what we have today, you’ll be getting much more performance. Seeing what we’ve seen thus far with Nehalem, I’d say a 2-core, 32nm version in a notebook is going to be reason enough for you to want to upgrade.

I know many are staunch on their "if you need it, get it now" perspective, which I respect, but surely there are others like myself who will be holding out for this new Intel i7 based technology. If so, this is your waiting and speculation thread!

Can't wait!!!

[Tallest Skil]

What happened to Clarksfield?

[barkmonster]

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

What happened to Clarksfield?

Well Brainiac crashed his ship into it, then these narky types from the phantom zone turned up to annoy everyone. Loads of other things happened too but I think it's fallen into neglect now because he works in Metropolis mainly these days and his mum is a senator and not being near smallville in ages.

[Apple Corps]

We are only 9 - 12 months away. My MBP 15" 2.33 - with an ATI graphics card is holding its own - even with some HD video playback

Given this economy - like many - my upgrade decisions will be based more on need and significant performance gains as opposed to chasing specs and the latest & greatest.

[lapino]

I recently bought a MBP (unibody) and the only reason that I can think of that would make me consider an upgrade is seriously prolongued battery life or a graphics card with the same performance that does not make the fans go wild after a few mins

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

What happened to Clarksfield?

Most versions of Clarksfield are too hot for the laptops, and Apple is apparently not interested in bringing quad-core to the iMac.

We might see the lowest-end Clarksfield (I think it's the successor to the 2.0 GHz quad-core Penryn) in the MacBook Pro, but I'm not holding my breath. Especially when its clock speed is likely to be significantly lower than high-end Penryns and Arrandales.

EDIT: Oh, and is this "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" thread?

[spaceballl]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

EDIT: Oh, and is this "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" thread?

Let's do it! I'm getting bored w/ all these Penryn chips so talk of anything 'new' will at least get my blood goin'!

Man i'm such a nerd...

[ayeying]

I'll buy a new laptop when quad core comes out. Until then, I think my Penryn chips would handle most of what I need easily.

[ThomasJL]

Originally Posted by ayeying

I'll buy a new laptop when quad core comes out. Until then, I think my Penryn chips would handle most of what I need easily.

I'm in the same boat. I'm waiting for 32nm quad core.

[TripHop]

Originally Posted by ayeying

I'll buy a new laptop when quad core comes out. Until then, I think my Penryn chips would handle most of what I need easily.

Me too. Do we have a handle on when they will be ready for market at what speed?

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by spaceballl

Let's do it! I'm getting bored w/ all these Penryn chips so talk of anything 'new' will at least get my blood goin'!

Man i'm such a nerd...

I was expecting a thread like this to pop up, but just for a probable refresh in the spring (with faster Penryns). So basically I had the layout basically done. OP, copy and paste the following into your first post, if you want.


The 2010 (Arrandale) MacBook Family: Everything We Know (put in title)

Slight niggle here: Please, please, PLEASE keep this discussion limited to the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. If someone wants to make a thread for the Mac (mini-)tablet, Mac netbook, or xMac like this, I would be happy to see one, but don't post any tablet, netbook, or xMac ramblings here, please. Thank you in advance.

Updated to reflect posts as of 3/16/2009; 20:17 EST.

This post will be edited as we gain more and more clarified information. The newest additions will be in red. Italics denote specs upon which we have not agreed on or can never know before release.

Release Information:

Clarksfield CPUs: Q3 2009
Arrandale CPUs: Q4 2009
Notebooks release date: Probably early 2010

Points yet to be decided upon:

If there will be a UK price increase, how much?
Will Apple move to quad-core or not?
Battery: Will the whole line move to the 17" MacBook Pro's battery technology?

Hardware Specifications:

Prices: MacBooks ($999 (white, if it's updated), $1299, $1599), MacBook Air ($1799, $2499), MacBook Pro ($1999, $2499, $2799)
UK prices may increase due to UK price increases in the recent desktop updates.

I/O:

Things we won't see:

USB 3.0 (2010, people)
WiMax (just making sure you're paying attention)
Blu-ray (see here)

Narrative:

See the first post.

Note that updates in late 2009 or early 2010 do not necessarily mean there won't be interim updates before then. The Montevina refresh in the spring featuring higher-clocked CPUs may be a good time for such an update.

The main things:

Case design:

Will the MacBook Air get design tweaks to match the rest of the notebook line? What about the carbon fiber rumor?

Display:

13" for MacBook and MacBook Air, 15" and 17" for MacBook Pro. There was a rumor about a 15" MacBook Air in the works, to be released in H2 2009.
Possible resolution increases (even as options), 13" to 1440x900 and 15" to 1680x1050 (and maybe 1920x1200)?

CPU:

Several mobile variants of the Nehalem microarchitecture are being planned for release:*

• Clarksfield - Extreme - 45 nm - 4 cores - 55 W - Q3 2009 (2 models)
• Clarksfield - Performance - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W - Q3 2009 (1 model)
• Arrandale - Mainstream/Performance - 32 nm - 2 cores - 45 W - Q4 2009 (2 models)
• Arrandale - Power optimized performance - 32 nm - 2 cores - 35 W - Q4 2009 (3 models)

These replace various Penryn CPUs:

• 2.27/2.53 GHz - Extreme - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W (2 models)
• 2.0 GHz - Performance? - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W (1 model)
• 2.67/2.93 GHz - Mainstream/Performance - 45 nm - 2 cores - 35 W (2 models) — MacBook Pro
• ≤2.67 GHz - Power optimized performance - 45 nm - 2 cores - 25 W (≥3 models) — MacBook, MacBook Pro

So, we are likely to see:

• MacBook: Arrandale (35 W)
• MacBook Air: ???
• MacBook Pro: Arrandale (25/35 W), maybe Clarksfield (45 W) in the higher-end

The low-end 45 W Clarksfield is probably the successor to the 2.0 GHz quad-core Penryn and is the only quad-core that would fit in the MacBook Pro. However, given Apple's insistence on dual-cores only for the iMacs and the likely low GHz of the 45 W Clarksfield, we likely won't see Clarksfield in the MacBook Pro. Clarksfield info is given here for reference purposes.

Now, about the MacBook Air. Last year's roadmaps (when Auburndale was scheduled for Q3 2009) did not show a version of Auburndale for the LV/ULV segment in the second half of 2009. So it seems that the LV Arrandale release date is up in the air at this point.

* Presumed Arrandale details from Auburndale info

RAM:

Mass storage:

GPU:

Arrandale will have a 45 nm integrated GPU in the chip package. This GPU might replace the current integrated GPU in the MacBook lineup, the 9400M. Clarksfield will not have an integrated GPU.

The little things:

The successor:

Clarksfield is expected to go 32 nm in the middle of 2010. Sandy Bridge, the next microarchitecture, is expected sometime around early 2011.

Explanation Section:

If needed…I might just put them up with “Main things” or maybe not.

TDPs:

Mobile Nehalem TDPs appear to be quite high. The reason for Clarksfield being 10 W higher than Penryn CPUs of equivalent heat is due to certain parts that were outside the chip now integrated into it. TDPs for Arrandale are 10 W higher than Penryn CPUs of equivalent heat, due to the integrated GPU in Arrandale being included in the CPU TDP.

I’d like more to be added if possible; any input or corrections are greatly appreciated.

Layout credits to Tallest Skil.

Contributors:

spaceballl: Initial thread, "The unofficial "I'm Waiting for Arrandale" thread..."
iMacmatician: "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" and associated template
Tallest Skil: Thread title change suggestion to something more concise
colmaclean: UK price reminder
dmmcintyre3: Additional resolution wish

[J DILLA]

Looks like I will be joining you.... hopefully my powerbook g4 holds up until then

i was thinking about upgrading if they updated the laptops at WWDC or whatever, but i don't think i want to buy a laptop then if they are going to put the new chips in soon...

[Tallest Skil]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

Slight niggle here: Please, please, PLEASE keep this discussion limited to the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. If someone wants to make a thread for the Mac (mini-)tablet, Mac netbook, or xMac like this, I would be happy to see one, but don't post any tablet, netbook, or xMac ramblings here, please. Thank you in advance.

Best part.

OP, copy this text and replace your first post with it. Update as we gain more information.

[Tallest Skil]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

The Combined 2009/2010 (Clarksfield/Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know (put in title)

I would make one change, though:

The 2010 (Arrandale) MacBook Family: Everything We Know

It's more concise that way.

[dmmcintyre3]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

Possible resolution increases, 13" to 1440x900 and 15" to 1680x1050?[/indent]

Please do this Apple. 1440X900 on 15 inch sucks. Please add 1920*1200 option on 15 inch too!

Originally Posted by Patriks7

Nooooo! Please! No more Intel graphics! Apple would shoot itself in the foot really badly if they went back to Intel!

Intel graphics suck

[Abstract]

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil

What happened to Clarksfield?

I agree it should just be skipped. Look at the specs of that chip. It would be impossible to put inside anything but the 17" MBP, and even then I'm not so confident. Absolutely no point at this point, to be honest. May as well wait for Arrandale, which will be worth the wait.

[iMacmatician]

Intel mentioned that while Clarkdale/Arrandale clock speeds and TDPs would be similar to what we have today, you’ll be getting much more performance.

Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

Seeing what we’ve seen thus far with Nehalem, I’d say a 2-core, 32nm version in a notebook is going to be reason enough for you to want to upgrade.

It's worth noting that some of the features in Bloomfield/Gainestown, like 3-channel RAM (up from 2) and QuickPath, aren't present in most other Nehalem variants including Arrandale. But I'm sure the process shrink will help make up for that.

[Patriks7]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

Lower costs, yeah. But highly doubtful that will be then carried on to the consumers.
Anyhow, I highly doubt we will see these in Macs until mid next year, earliest. Apple isn't usually the brand that jumps right away on the newest tech.

[moiety]

Originally Posted by Patriks7

Apple isn't usually the brand that jumps right away on the newest tech.

Right, except for ditching the floppy drive, popularizing USB on all their machines for a wide range of peripherals, being one of the founding supporters of FireWire, multi-touch, widescreen displays in notebooks, ditching their entire CRT lineup, and literally jumping at brand-new, Intel-developed tech like EFI and GUID partitions. :P

But other than that, no, they shy away from the newest tech.

[spaceballl]

Originally Posted by moiety

Right, except for ditching the floppy drive, popularizing USB on all their machines for a wide range of peripherals, being one of the founding supporters of FireWire, multi-touch, widescreen displays in notebooks, ditching their entire CRT lineup, and literally jumping at brand-new, Intel-developed tech like EFI and GUID partitions. :P

But other than that, no, they shy away from the newest tech.

Haha and to add to your point, they have recently been shipping Mac Pros w/ Intel CPUs before the intel CPU is officially announced

[Eric S.]

Originally Posted by spaceballl

Haha and to add to your point, they have recently been shipping Mac Pros w/ Intel CPUs before the intel CPU is officially announced

But Intel CPUs are so 2006.

[Bubba Satori]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

Thanks for my daily chuckle.

[Firefly2002]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

It's worth noting that some of the features in Bloomfield/Gainestown, like 3-channel RAM (up from 2) and QuickPath, aren't present in most other Nehalem variants including Arrandale. But I'm sure the process shrink will help make up for that.

Lol.... die shrinks don't mean they're faster, it just means they can be clocked higher (generally). Tri-channel RAM really doesn't matter at the moment, as even dual-channel RAM makes really no difference in overall system performance, at least not for a dual-core laptop system.

Anyway, at the moment I'm using a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Lenovo T500... I like the 256 MB Radeon 3650 but tbh I'd much prefer a 4650 (or a 4750/70 if they get that 40nm part into a laptop in time, which would be phenomenal), and I want a quad-core chip... :/ Only thing is I think even@32nm clocks for quad won't be past 2.4 in Nehalem-based laptop chips for anything as thin as the MBP... and it seems like such a tiny leap to go from a 2.4 Core2 to a 2.4 i7 even if it's got HTT.. -.- Hopefully they'll clock them higher, but I doubt it. We've been pretty much stuck with 2.4 GHz as bottom/midrange for three years...

Thanks for my daily chuckle.

He's not really wrong. Die shrinks mean less material per chip, more chips per wafer, ergo less expense per wafer and less expense for the company. Granted it's not just a fab switch but he's not totally off-base.

[spaceballl]

I read this yesterday - seems relevant to the Calpella / Arrandale discussion...

ased on the estimated prices at which Apple buys the chips for the MacBook Pro line, it is believed that Apple will use the 1.6 and 1.73 GHz model for their professional segment. The next generation of chips will be released in 2010, when the 32-nm dual-core chip codenamed “Arrandale” is to be launched. Apple is believed to use that chipset for the 13 inch MacBook line. Because the specifications for Arrandale translate into higher clock speeds, it is not entire impossible that Apple will wait to use this chipset and abandon the Calpella platform.

[t0mat0]

Originally Posted by spaceballl

I read this yesterday - seems relevant to the Calpella / Arrandale discussion...

Why just the 13 inch MacBook?