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Old Apr 16, 2004, 08:32 AM   #1
srobert
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Flasher beaten up by schoolgirls



I was'nt sure if this is current event material or community discussion but I just had to bring that tou your attention. That made my day. Now that's entertainment. I hope he got kicked in the nuts.

Extract from the article:

PHILADELPHIA - A man who was tackled and beaten by a group of Roman Catholic schoolgirls after he flashed them outside their high school was sentenced Wednesday to 10 months to two years in prison...

Susando was arrested Oct. 30 when more than a dozen girls from St. Maria Goretti High School for Girls, with the help of a bystander, chased him and wrestled him to the ground and held him for police. When he resisted, the girls kicked him repeatedly. He was taken to a hospital and treated for minor injuries to his mouth.



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Old Apr 16, 2004, 09:25 AM   #2
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As being America. .. is the flasher going to put charges agianst the schoolgirls for beating him up?
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 09:41 AM   #3
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Sorry but I have to say that the beavior of the crowd was problematic. Even tho the flasher did something terribly wrong, it doesnt deserve the treatement he got. Violence seems to be the overly used these days...
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 09:57 AM   #4
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i dunno, i think he did get what he deserved. i mean if they had seriously hurt him then that would have been overkill perhaps but giving him some bruises seems like justice to me.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:00 AM   #5
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For once, he was on the receiving end of the stick. (Oh wait... could that be a pun?)
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantat
Sorry but I have to say that the beavior of the crowd was problematic. Even tho the flasher did something terribly wrong, it doesnt deserve the treatement he got. Violence seems to be the overly used these days...
Actually, I might agree with you if this was just a single occurrence. What the story doesn't say is that the guy was a serial flasher and had been plaguing the school for some time without getting caught by police. The girls were quite frustrated that this scumbag had eluded capture. He resisted when they attempted to detain him until the cops showed up, so they enthusiastically subdued him.

I say he got what he deserved, and I'm far from alone. The 'victims turn tables on perv' angle made this big news back when it happened-- the story made CNN and I think a couple of the girls were even on Good Morning America or another one of the national morning yack shows.

~Philly
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantat
Sorry but I have to say that the beavior of the crowd was problematic. Even tho the flasher did something terribly wrong, it doesnt deserve the treatement he got. Violence seems to be the overly used these days...
Are you kidding me? This is brilliant! This should be standard for people who do this sort of thing outside schools.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by edesignuk
Are you kidding me? This is brilliant! This should be standard for people who do this sort of thing outside schools.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantat
Sorry but I have to say that the beavior of the crowd was problematic. Even tho the flasher did something terribly wrong, it doesnt deserve the treatement he got. Violence seems to be the overly used these days...
What you're saying is that - if the man had only kept his dirty mac buttoned up, we could have put some typically violent schoolgirls behind bars where they belong?

Why I don't like your world is probably why I'm not so keen on the real world today.

never mind, it's not like we can vote on this kind of crap.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 10:42 AM   #10
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Following your line of logic, cuting the hand of a thief is a good punishement, throwing rock at a woman caught in adultery, etc... These are primitive way to react.

Just think about what these action teach to the children: violence is the only way to solve a problem...

Now think of what would have happen if the guy defended himself! It would have been legitimate defence againts assault which grant total protection againts the law. Violence brings more violence, I cant think of a single exemple where violence solved a problem for good (Irak, Palestine, Tibet, Rwanda, my high school in the good old days...)

Personnaly, I think they should have photographed the man. If it wasnt the first time he was there, I guess it wouldnt have been that hard. With this evidence, the police would have been more able to handle the case.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantat
Sorry but I have to say that the beavior of the crowd was problematic. Even tho the flasher did something terribly wrong, it doesnt deserve the treatement he got. Violence seems to be the overly used these days...
You've got to love the MacRumors bunch. I wondered how long it would take for someone to pop up and defend the flasher's rights against the evil schoolchildren.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:22 PM   #12
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You've got to love the MacRumors bunch. I wondered how long it would take for someone to pop up and defend the flasher's rights against the evil schoolchildren.
You've got to love misinformation. No one's defending the right to flash, only the right not to get brutalized for a nonviolent crime. And if you have so much contempt for "the MacRumors bunch," what the hell are you doing here with a registered name?

On the other hand, I would be interested to know what Mantat thinks they should have done. Because this kind of thing is likely quite terrifying. Moreover, it can lead to worse crimes. The flasher was chased and wrestled down in what sounds like as humane a means as possible. It was only when he tried to get away that he took a beating in order to keep him in custody until the authorities arrived.

From the story:
Quote:
"There was a consistent pattern; he showed up when the girls were arriving at school in the morning. He targeted them." DeSantis said. "These are the kinds of crimes that escalate to touching, and then to rape."
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:30 PM   #13
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Being a former Philadelphia area person, I'm all for taking on the bad guys. There is a time and a place for it, but why let flashers or other criminals get away with this kind of thing? Besides, if this is new, this may not be the first incident like this in the last twelve months in Philly. Then, there was the little (7? 9 years old?) girl who was kidnapped. She bit through the duct tape holding her to the chair, broke out of the basement and got the police to arrest her kidnapper.

Philadelphians are not door mats.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:46 PM   #14
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"There was a consistent pattern; he showed up when the girls were arriving at school in the morning. He targeted them." DeSantis said. "These are the kinds of crimes that escalate to touching, and then to rape."
If it was a consistant pattern, would it be hard to call the police and have them there as the children were arriving?

Question: Do they have the right (legally) to subdue him untill the police arrive? anyone know of court cases on this?
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:48 PM   #15
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I think I should explain my opinion a bit more...

First of all, the flasher did a crime and it right to assume that repeat offence like he did could lead to worst crime and for that fact alone he should be punished / treated.

About what the schoolgirl did? They did something very dangerous. Taking justice in your own hand, no matter how well intended you are, is a crime and second, can cause you serious problem. There was a guy here in montreal recently who wanted to stop a fight between two guys and he got shot... Heroism should be left to the cops. You never know what might by the reaction of a perverted mind like that!

As I said, documenting the suspect (photo, video, etc) could have been done. I guess there are a lot of camera in the area and the suspect is probably on film.

My problem is not as much with what the girls did, I think they got good result, its more that people in this forum congratulate them. This is a clear endorsement of violence and the vigilante spirit which will latter cause much more troubles.

Violence leads to violence.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:48 PM   #16
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Funny, this very same scenario was in an episode of "ER," and maybe Law&Order too.....must be a common thing.

And yeah, it was probably "wrong" for the girls to kick this guy, but I sure as hell wouldnt charge them for it. Yes, vigilante actions are wrong, but it seems like criminals are getting more and more disgusting while punishments are getting more and more lenient.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koodauw
If it was a consistant pattern, would it be hard to call the police and have them there as the children were arriving?

Question: Do they have the right (legally) to subdue him untill the police arrive? anyone know of court cases on this?
I think it varies greatly by jurisdiction. Also civilians have far less authority to use force in such instances and face far greater possible penalties in the event of an 'oops'.

The girls did a good thing I think. It was dangerous but with the numbers involved no overly so. As for violence for non violent offenses. The flashing comes really close to the line. There are some implicit threats in with whipping out Mr Winky and showing him to young ladies. (Rather different IHMO than walking down the street stark naked.)
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:57 PM   #18
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Reminds me of a story

A friend once had an interesting encounter with a flasher while she was working as a cashier. The guy apparently placed his penis on the counter along with some items he intended to purchase and then made some kind of comment. My friend was so shocked and surprised that she panicked and instinctively whacked his penis with the nearest item at hand. Unfortunately for the flasher the item happened to be a can of soup that he had placed on the counter next to his penis. It took a while to get him in the ambulance because everyone including the police and paramedics were laughing so hard. Apparently the can actually left dent in the counter. I wonder how many people would have responded in a similar way if they were put in the same situation.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 12:58 PM   #19
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No sympathy here. I think he should've be castrated right on the spot. Ohhhh...I'm such a barbarian. Gimme a break...

I guess It's ok for some disgusting perv to wave his hairy wanker at someone--as long as it's not your daughter(s).
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 01:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agreenster
Funny, this very same scenario was in an episode of "ER," and maybe Law&Order too.....must be a common thing.

And yeah, it was probably "wrong" for the girls to kick this guy, but I sure as hell wouldnt charge them for it. Yes, vigilante actions are wrong, but it seems like criminals are getting more and more disgusting while punishments are getting more and more lenient.
It is somewhat common. What's left of my brain seems to track about an incident a year.

As for the girls vigilance^H^Hantism I don't know. Heinlein said an armed society is a polite society. Jefferson said eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. America is a county of the citizen soldier. There is no overarching nobility and all people are equal. The authority of the police derives from the people.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 01:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamabushi
A friend once had an interesting encounter with a flasher while she was working as a cashier. The guy apparently placed his penis on the counter along with some items he intended to purchase and then made some kind of comment. My friend was so shocked and surprised that she panicked and instinctively whacked his penis with the nearest item at hand. Unfortunately for the flasher the item happened to be a can of soup that he had placed on the counter next to his penis. It took a while to get him in the ambulance because everyone including the police and paramedics were laughing so hard. Apparently the can actually left dent in the counter. I wonder how many people would have responded in a similar way if they were put in the same situation.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 01:55 PM   #22
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About crime rate:

I am tired of people who keep saying that the society is getting worst as time pass. Its totaly false. The rate of crimes in % and nominal number is declining years after years. Well, according to some stats that I dont want to find again.

But its possible that its increasing in some area and declining in others, that I dont know. But I know that study was for north america...

And if I had a kid and a pervert flashed his dick in front of her, I dont think I would want him to be hurt. The first thing would be to explain to my kid what happened and why. And I did some research on google to link flashing with other sexual crimes and there is no correlation. That means that flasher dont eventualy become raper (rapist?!?). Explanation: Flasher are arroused by the idea of others seeing them. Raper (ist?) are arroused by the notion of power they have over someone else.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 02:03 PM   #23
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The day is mine Trebek! I'll take tha rapists for 500

No seriously, I think Mentat has a point. I don't think that flashers (or nu-vites as we call them in french Montreal ^_^) are dangerous peeps. They should just pick their target more wisely. Maybe this guy was afraid that if he'd pull is act in front of adults, he'd end up with a punch in the face. It's sad ... but funny in a way.
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 02:25 PM   #24
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This makes for a great story, but what the girls did was stupid for too many reasons to list. First, it's likely to make the man angry (most people don't like being attacked). Second, it would have given him an excuse if he had decided to become violent. Third, it's quite possibly illegal (In most jurisdictions they couldn't claim self-defense because he never actually threatened them). Fourth, a struggle puts them in an obvious physical danger. The key factor here is that they put themselves in physical danger when there otherwise wasn't any (No, flashing is not physically dangerous).

Obviously, this man needed to be taken care of, but this was just a dumb way to go about it. In this case, it's great that it worked out okay, but it could just as easily ended up the other way around, with the man beating the girls (in self-defense). Then all of the people who are applauding the girls' actions now would be harping on how dangerous the world is when adults can get away with attacking girls in the schoolyard on "technicalities"
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Old Apr 16, 2004, 02:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantat
About crime rate:

I am tired of people who keep saying that the society is getting worst as time pass. Its totaly false. The rate of crimes in % and nominal number is declining years after years. Well, according to some stats that I dont want to find again.

But its possible that its increasing in some area and declining in others, that I dont know. But I know that study was for north america...

And if I had a kid and a pervert flashed his dick in front of her, I dont think I would want him to be hurt. The first thing would be to explain to my kid what happened and why. And I did some research on google to link flashing with other sexual crimes and there is no correlation. That means that flasher dont eventualy become raper (rapist?!?). Explanation: Flasher are arroused by the idea of others seeing them. Raper (ist?) are arroused by the notion of power they have over someone else.
I agree that crime rates are down. We are so accustomed to always thinking things were better "in the good ol' days" that we fail to recognize whenever this is not the case. Crime rates have been going down for about 10 years.

As a parent of young daughters, if someone flashed them I would be furious. But that doesn't mean violence is the appropriate response. Apprehending the perv and getting them prosecuted and helped/punished is the answer.

But I've really got to disagree with the point that flashing won't lead to worse crimes. Besides, that isn't really the point. The point is that most people who are being flashed are not criminologists and they don't know what a certain crime will or won't lead to. They're just afraid. I recognize that most vigilantism and glorification of violence is also borne of fear, and I'm joining with you in not condoning it. But I think we have to recognize that any person who is in the moment of being victimized—especially female victims of any sex crime by a male perpetrator—are prone to be very afraid and will act more out of instinct than careful, rational deliberation. I suspect that fear had more to do with why he got kicked in the teeth than mere mean-spiritedness. On the other hand, that doesn't excuse all the attention the story has gotten and the glorification of the beating.
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