The end of Friends and Frasier, and the next big thing...

[alxths]

So I see that we already have two threads about Friends coming to an end--something that I couldn't care less about. But I've always liked Frasier quite a bit and will miss it, even though i'll admit it should've ended before they started playing around with the relationships between the characters.

Anyways, what i'm trying to focus on with this thread is that, it doesn't seem like there are any hit sitcoms left that are the large cultural phenomena that Seilfeld, Friends and to a lesser extent, Frasier, were... I'm wondering what you think a show will need to become the next big hit? Do you think it's just a matter of having the right characters, with the same format as shows like Friends and Frasier? Or do you think more ingenuity is needed to make it seem fresh enough to for people to enjoy..

Curb Your Enthusiasm comes to mind for me, for seeming ot have completely abandoned sharp wit and relying solely on irony and absurdism. It's actually the only show that i go out of my way to watch nowadays, but it doesn't seem to be achieving the same elvel of awareness as earlier shows.. The way i see it, that could be because of any of three things: people just don't like the style of humour, it's on HBO as opposed toa basic cable channel, or TV on a whole has declined in popularity making it impossible for a show to have the same success as earlier sitcoms....

Anyways, i'm starting to go on and on, so what do yuo think?

[Neserk]

I think it will be a while before we see any sitcoms with the genius writing of Friends.

[Awimoway]

I'm not sure if you're asking why Curb isn't more popular or why sitcoms in general seem to be falling out of fashion, but I'll tackle the latter.

I'm not convinced that they have become unpopular, they've just been pushed aside by reality TV. If/when this bad-taste phenomenon ever dies out, we may easily see the return of good sitcoms. But seriously, there have always been far more bad sitcoms than good ones. And the good ones always stand out as being distinctly different in terms of style or setting. For example, sitcoms about families have been and continue to be a dime a dozen. But rarely if ever are they wildly popular. Some will get good ratings (Raymond, Home Improvement, Family Ties) but few will be fondly remembered the way M*A*S*H or Cheers or Seinfeld are. All in the Family is perhaps the only exception to this rule. Maybe The Jeffersons, too. Anyway, my point is that we've simply been lucky to have such an unending string of good sitcoms, but in any given year there have always only been one or two sitcoms that could be considered great. Now that they have to compete with reality shows to even get on the airwaves, the odds of success are even lower.

Great sitcoms have never been about the form of the humor so much as a "perfect storm" (as the term is now commonly misused) of good characters in a great setting backed by good writing.

Anyway, I heard something about a Jeff Goldblum sitcom produced by Paul Reiser that will be premiering this Fall. It sounds like it might be good. I certainly hope so.

[Krizoitz]

Here are some of the sitcoms I think that will be remembered for a long time as being great

I love Lucy
Dick VanDyke Show
Andy Griffith Show
Happy Days
M*A*S*H
Mary Tyler Moore
Laverne and Shirley
Cosby Show
All in the Family
Cheers

I don't think Seinfeld will stand the test of time personally, Friends probably will and I hope Frasier does because of the quality of the show.

[Neserk]

Originally Posted by Awimoway

Anyway, I heard something about a Jeff Goldblum sitcom produced by Paul Reiser that will be premiering this Fall. It sounds like it might be good. I certainly hope so.

Sounds like it has lots of potential!

[D0ct0rteeth]

Originally Posted by Neserk

Sounds like it has lots of potential!

I always loved mad about you.. I hope this one is is even half as good

[gwuMACaddict]

scrubs

i love this show cause it really reminds me of three other excellent shows. scrubs is ally mcbeal, wonder years, and friends rolled in to one. the characters are likable, you can relate to them, and i find myself excited to see what happens each week in their lives. the writing is witty too. i hope nbc sticks with this show- all of the critical review i have read love the show, i dont know why its ratings arent higher

[Neserk]

Originally Posted by gwuMACaddict

scrubs

I'm tired of the Elliott/JD thing... they have "hooked up" three times and JD finally realizes he doesn't want her...

[iBook]

Originally Posted by gwuMACaddict

scrubs

i love this show cause it really reminds me of three other excellent shows. scrubs is ally mcbeal, wonder years, and friends rolled in to one. the characters are likable, you can relate to them, and i find myself excited to see what happens each week in their lives. the writing is witty too. i hope nbc sticks with this show- all of the critical review i have read love the show, i dont know why its ratings arent higher

There's an unexpected sweetness in "Scrubs." The writers do a good job of keeping the show light and funny while weaving in J.D.'s mid-20s angst and struggle to "find" himself and balancing the sentimentality with snappy production and slapstick humor.

Not a great comedy like "Frasier" and "Seinfeld" because there's not much in the way of character development and "plot." But it's an entertaining 30 minutes.

[iBook]

Originally Posted by D0ct0rteeth

I always loved mad about you.. I hope this one is is even half as good

One of the finest modern sitcoms. Really liked the show until Jamie became pregnant. The show worked best when it was about the relationship between Paul and Jamie.

The two of them having a baby = JUMP THE SHARK!

With respect to the final episode... Ay Carumba! Was it awful. Saw it again recently, and it really was disappointing to see how the writers manipulated Paul and Jamie from one implausible scenario to another -- and the whole whiny Emma (was that the daughter's name) thing just annoyed me.

Would have much preferred a safe ending like the writers @ "Friends" took, an hour to take one last look into the world of Paul & Jamie instead of a bumpy roller-coaster ride through a construction zone.

[saabmp3]

Originally Posted by Krizoitz

Here are some of the sitcoms I think that will be remembered for a long time as being great

I love Lucy
Dick VanDyke Show
Andy Griffith Show
Happy Days
M*A*S*H
Mary Tyler Moore
Laverne and Shirley
Cosby Show
All in the Family
Cheers

I don't think Seinfeld will stand the test of time personally, Friends probably will and I hope Frasier does because of the quality of the show.

Unfourtuatelly, Friends just doesn't have good writing/the correct demographic to make it a lasting show. The main viewers of friends are also the people who listen to pop music. It can't hold it's own even against Seinfield, let alone the better shows ever put out.

I must admit, friends had good writers a while ago. Then it turned into a comedy soap opera attracting girls. They struck it rich doing this, but it doesn't mean that they're a good show.

BEN

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by Krizoitz

Here are some of the sitcoms I think that will be remembered for a long time as being great

I love Lucy
Dick VanDyke Show
Andy Griffith Show
Happy Days
M*A*S*H
Mary Tyler Moore
Laverne and Shirley
Cosby Show
All in the Family
Cheers

I don't think Seinfeld will stand the test of time personally, Friends probably will and I hope Frasier does because of the quality of the show.

I certainly agree with your list above, all high quality show. They were on during the golden age a television, before 24/7 cable. Never really cared for Seinfeld, Friends, or Fraiser. I have no doubt that NBC already has something in the works for the Fall.

[Neserk]

Originally Posted by saabmp3

Unfourtuatelly, Friends just doesn't have good writing/the correct demographic to make it a lasting show.

I guess the 10 years it stayed top 10 in the ratings doesn't matter...

[Savage Henry]

The Office anyone ?? Remember how it rather took the wheels from under Friends at the Emmys?

The Office had the writing, the acting and the intelligence to realise that you should quit on a high before you are only watched for the weary cliched comfort of unchallengling predictability.

[Hands up all those people who thought Ross wasn't going to go with Rachel in the end .... .... no one?? .... ... I thought so]

[Neserk]

Originally Posted by Savage Henry

[Hands up all those people who thought Ross wasn't going to go with Rachel in the end .... .... no one?? .... ... I thought so]

I didn't think they would do it because everyone was expecting it...

[virividox]

i think theres going to be a vaccum for about 2-3 years

[Chip NoVaMac]

Originally Posted by Neserk

I guess the 10 years it stayed top 10 in the ratings doesn't matter...

Maybe it was more of an indication of lack of good programing....

Viewers did not have much else to watch....

[MatMistake]

Originally Posted by iBook

There's an unexpected sweetness in "Scrubs." The writers do a good job of keeping the show light and funny while weaving in J.D.'s mid-20s angst and struggle to "find" himself and balancing the sentimentality with snappy production and slapstick humor.

plus its produced entirely using macs (powerbooks I belive) and final cut pro (the first tv show to do so)

there is an article on the apple website about it somewhere

Originally Posted by Savage Henry

The Office anyone ?? Remember how it rather took the wheels from under Friends at the Emmys?

I can't stand that program
'coupling', now there's a good sitcom. for some reason insted of showing the british episodes in america thay are re-making it, which I'm sure will prove awful.

[Frozone]

Hmm, Not sure if "Roseanne" counts as a sit-com, but it's one of the better shows on TV (Yes, I know, it's all re-runs), but it's one of the few shows I always find myself watching if it's on TV.

[Awimoway]

Originally Posted by Savage Henry

The Office anyone ?? Remember how it rather took the wheels from under Friends at the Emmys?

The Office had the writing, the acting and the intelligence to realise that you should quit on a high before you are only watched for the weary cliched comfort of unchallengling predictability.

[Hands up all those people who thought Ross wasn't going to go with Rachel in the end .... .... no one?? .... ... I thought so]

While I am no fan of Friends, I think Office quit when they did because it was sort of one recurring gag. Although initially very funny, it got got old rather quickly, and the producers wisely packed it in. The same thing is happening to Curb Your Enthusiasm. It has been very creative with new gags along the way, but now it's just getting silly.

Just my opinion of course. On the other hand, anyone who thinks that Seinfeld isn't a classic is nuts. That's not opinion.

[MatMistake]

Originally Posted by Awimoway

While I am no fan of Friends, I think Office quit when they did because it was sort of one recurring gag. Although initially very funny, it got got old rather quickly, and the producers wisely packed it in. The same thing is happening to Curb Your Enthusiasm. It has been very creative with new gags along the way, but now it's just getting silly.

my theory is its due to the current generation of comedians/producers having grown up watching faulty towers (the best sitcom in the world ever tm) which famously only lasted for 13 episodes

[Krizoitz]

Originally Posted by Neserk

I guess the 10 years it stayed top 10 in the ratings doesn't matter...

Popularity doesn't equate to standing the test of time.

[Neserk]

Originally Posted by Chip NoVaMac

Maybe it was more of an indication of lack of good programing....

Viewers did not have much else to watch....

No show makes it 10 years on NBC that isn't considered good by a large number of people. I can't even think of the number of shows that went up against Friends and had to be either moved or cancelled. People had plenty of other options and chose Friends, repeatedly. I can understand that you personally don't like it (neither Seinfeld or Frasier were to my liking) but for many Friends will remain a favorite for a very long time.

[Juventuz]

Originally Posted by Krizoitz

Popularity doesn't equate to standing the test of time.

Nor does it equate to good writing. There are plenty of popular tv shows that have terrible writing, and plenty of unpopular shows that have brilliant writing.

I think the problem lies with the general populace, they don't appreciate brain candy. They want to be spoon fed.

[agreenster]

I hope the new "Joey" sitcom does well. He was the only reason I watched Friends pretty much anyway. He cracks me up. He's the classic luvable dumbass with a heart. "How YOU doin'....."

I also like Scrubs. I dont make it a point to watch it, but when I do I almost always enjoy it.

Now is the time for a network to take the reigns. With the absense of a "leading" comedic sitcom, theres prime opportunity for a ratings landslide.