McLaren launch MP4-19B F1 Car

[iGav]

McLaren ran their heavily revised F1 car at Silverstone yesterday for the first time.

According to Newey it's almost identical mechanically to the MP4-19, it sports a new monocoque that required a crash retest by FIA, and completely new aerodynamics.

Looks abit like the Renault to me though.... all the changes seem dandy, but if its mechanically the same, then all the changes in the world ain't gonna change the reliability of the Merc engine.

They need to get this racing as soon as possible, it's due to be launched in July in Germany, but I don't see why they don't race one now, the MP4-19 is so bad, that it literally cannot be any worse. They were losing almost 2.5 seconds a lap to Ferrari at the Nurburgring so I think they should give one to Kimi a.s.a.p. and let him race it, this season is already a written off so what have they got to lose?

Thoughts?

[Bigheadache]

Like you say, they have nothing to lose so why not introduce it straight away. i wonder what JPM thinks of leaving Williams now??

[russed]

i think the main problem at the moment is the engine and as it hasnt been changed i cant see much difference, and as said above, if it isnt any worse than the car they have now, why not introduce it at the next race?

[iGav]

Originally Posted by russed

why not introduce it at the next race?

Exactly... whats the worst that can happen?? it'll retire. But the 19 is doing that rather well so far this season so it'll make next to no difference if the 19B does that, atleast it'll be getting the testing and race miles under it's belt.

As for Merc/Illmor, they haven't had close to the best engine since 2000, and I don't see any major changes until Whitmarsh can do his stuff, but even then, look how long it's taken Honda to get competitive, same goes for Renault, and I really doubt that Ferrari are going to drop the ball whilst we have the current rules, maybe the status quo will change with the major regulation changes in 2006.

As for JPM, there's been alot of rumours that he's been trying to get out of his McLaren contract, but Ron's an old hand at contracts, and I really can't imagine that it'll be anything other than water tight. Mind you I bet he doesn't mind leaving Williams either at the moment, because they're only slightly better than McLaren, and I think that once Mike Gasgoyne gets Toyota (with it's mega budget) sorted, they'll be bang up there as well.

Either way, F1 is looking like it's going to be incredibly competitive over the next couple of seasons...

[russed]

wasnt the mp-19 suppost to be compleatly revolutionary and hadnt it had 2 years development on it? and in pre season weren't they saying how good it was? i wonder what went wrong with mclaren? trying to be too advanced. i think ferrari have done the right thing there, they have got a decent car and then from year to year not changed too much.

[Savage Henry]

Originally Posted by russed

why not introduce it at the next race?

I think the answer could be be because they only ran it

Originally Posted by iGav

yesterday for the first time.

I think I'd want a little more testing, a month or so. As the season is done and dusted there would be equally less reason to rush out half-arsed wheelbarrow with a squeaky front wheel. There may also be more they can learn from the current model before they leave it upturned in a ditch off the M4, and improve the newer version yet further.

In fact if they want a better engine they could borrow the one from my Dad's lawn-mower. They only have to ask, I'm sure he won't mind. ...

[iGav]

Originally Posted by russed

wasnt the mp-19 suppost to be compleatly revolutionary and hadnt it had 2 years development on it? and in pre season weren't they saying how good it was? i wonder what went wrong with mclaren? trying to be too advanced. i think ferrari have done the right thing there, they have got a decent car and then from year to year not changed too much.

Yep... the 19 according to Newey is fundamentally the same as the stillborn 18 from last season, the design foundation of which probably started in early/mid 2002.

Ferrari seem to focus more on evolution of their car, as opposed to radical redesigns, and this works when the rules have been so stable as they have been for the last several years. That said, last years F2003-GA really was incredibly revolutionary compared to the F2002, the rear end of which, has pretty much been copied by every team since *cough* Toyota and BAR *cough* heheh.

Only McLaren tried to go radical, and that failed. The 19 would likely have been bang on the pace last season, but Ferrari have really stretched their legs, as has Renault and BAR, and as such McLaren has really fallen behind, obviously they've been somewhat hindered by a pi$$ poor engine package as well, along with designing and building their new Paragon Technology Centre, and designing and building the SLR McMerc.. all could be laid at the door for contributing to McLaren's worst season in donkey yonks.

I'm also surprised by Williams lack of pace, before the start of the season they were favourites, but this year they're behind both Renault and BAR and that is surprising. Interestingly both the McLaren and Williams are twin keel designs, and there are according to some people in F1, inherent design and performance issues with that layout.

[MOFS]

Originally Posted by iGAV

Yep... the 19 according to Newey is fundamentally the same as the stillborn 18 from last season, the design foundation of which probably started in early/mid 2002.

Ferrari seem to focus more on evolution of their car, as opposed to radical redesigns, and this works when the rules have been so stable as they have been for the last several years. That said, last years F2003-GA really was incredibly revolutionary compared to the F2002, the rear end of which, has pretty much been copied by every team since *cough* Toyota and BAR *cough* heheh.

Only McLaren tried to go radical, and that failed. The 19 would likely have been bang on the pace last season, but Ferrari have really stretched their legs, as has Renault and BAR, and as such McLaren has really fallen behind, obviously they've been somewhat hindered by a pi$$ poor engine package as well, along with designing and building their new Paragon Technology Centre, and designing and building the SLR McMerc.. all could be laid at the door for contributing to McLaren's worst season in donkey yonks.

I'm also surprised by Williams lack of pace, before the start of the season they were favourites, but this year they're behind both Renault and BAR and that is surprising. Interestingly both the McLaren and Williams are twin keel designs, and there are according to some people in F1, inherent design and performance issues with that layout.

I get (F)1 magazine and there was an interview with Geoff Willis and he said basically there's no big advantage to having a twin keel car, and because of the cost in making them (Williams and McLaren have had problems passing crash tests for one thing), they can spend more time tidying up around the rear and sidepods area. Seems Geoff had the right idea - and the BARs don't even have any barge boards! Imagine if they got them, Jense and Takuma would be...less slower than the Ferraris are now!

I think Mercedes really need to integrate better with McLaren. According to Brundle, he says they're the only big team with a manufacturer engine that hasn't brought the engineering in-house, ie while Williams and BMW work under the same roof to an extent, Mercedes and McLaren don't!

A match made in heaven!

[virividox]

dont anyone hold ur breath just yet for a string of mclaren wins

[kettle]

I wonder if DC will think of any more reasons for driving like poo.
(obviously I don't mean the shh1te off a shovel variety)

[iGav]

Originally Posted by kettle

I wonder if DC will think of any more reasons for driving like poo.
(obviously I don't mean the shh1te off a shovel variety)

DC's a funny old soul isn't he... on his day, in the right car, with the right set up... he's as fast as they come, but for some reason (like Ralf) if the car isn't perfect, or is twitchy and he can't get the set up, he seems to be unable to drive thru the problems like great drivers are capable of doing and as a result he gets annilated by his team mate.

It's always good watching him fight Schu though, he's overtaken Schu more times than anyone else on the grid, and they seem to have massive respect for each other in a close fight.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by iGAV

DC's a funny old soul isn't he... on his day, in the right car, with the right set up... he's as fast as they come

...and would still be half a second slower than hakkinen or raikkonen

[iGav]

Originally Posted by JFreak

...and would still be half a second slower than hakkinen or raikkonen

he's a better pack racer than Hakkinen though... The Hak was faster when he had nothing in front of him.

[Counterfit]

Originally Posted by iGAV

and they seem to have massive respect for each other in a close fight.

I guess it shows that Spa '98 wasn't a close fight then

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by iGAV

he's a better pack racer than Hakkinen though... The Hak was faster when he had nothing in front of him.

are you talking about the one specific french grand prix where hak started from the last position and finished second? and it was not DC who won...

[iGav]

Originally Posted by JFreak

are you talking about the one specific french grand prix where hak started from the last position and finished second? and it was not DC who won...

I'm talking about the countless times Hak got stuck in the pack, and seemed to lose interest and settle for X place, Brundle was always on about it. I think DC was a better pack racer, that's probably because he had more experience of being in the pack though. heheh Both were equally poor in the rain though.