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Old Jul 13, 2002, 05:42 PM   #1
Mr Jobs
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G5 = IBM Powe4

MORS are claming that the G5 next year will be based on the IBM Power4 chip architecture, i really hope so...bring on the 64bit of AMD and Intel.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 05:56 PM   #2
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Impossible, the Power4 sells for far too much. But, it would be cool.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:01 PM   #3
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Originally posted by rice_web
Impossible, the Power4 sells for far too much. But, it would be cool.
-it does say "based on the Power4 architecture" so it might be a cut down version

- by next year the prise may come down low enough

- by apple useing Power4 in powermacs IBM will be selling way more Power4 chips then they ever did so they can afford to sell for less
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:02 PM   #4
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they cant call it G5,thats motorolas trademark if im not mistaken
and whats with all those programers who were working really hard to optimize apps for altivec? especially big players like adobe etc.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:08 PM   #5
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no the Gx is an Apple trade mark, G3 was originally a internal code name but everyone know about it and it was so popular Apple kept it as a release name.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:20 PM   #6
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inquirer had a tidbit back on July 4th..

http://www.theinquirer.net/Default.aspx?article=4266

read near the bottom...

"On the IBM side, expect a very different approach in POWER5 for the 2004 - besides the usual clock, cache, memory, CPU execution parallelisation and interconnect improvements, there will be "Fast Path" hardwiring (on-chip hardware acceleration) of some common tasks like TCP/IP processing - later maybe even stuff like high-level database or bioinformatics routines. The 0.13 micron copper POWER5 will have 2-way simultaneous multithreading, just like Xeon, and is expected to run well above 2 GHz. It should be much cheaper, cooler and less power-guzzling than POWER4. Don't be surprised to see Apple Macs or thin blade servers based on POWER5."
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 06:32 PM   #7
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I like that last possibility. I sounds plausible enough.

And yes, I do realize that the next generation processor used in the PowerMac could be a "dumbed down" version of the Power4, how much would they have to cut to make it affordable?
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 07:02 PM   #8
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well... the really expensive Power4's have like 128mb DDR L3 cache, and 32mb L2 cache... so... i dont think they would need to be Dumbed down that much, just lower the cache!
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 07:03 PM   #9
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Can anyone provide any links to descriptions/analyses of the Power4? How does it compare to Moto's 8500?

It's an exciting rumor; the prospect of ditching Motorola is tantalizing. But it seems like a bit of a shot in the dark. And we'll have to wait at least a year...
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 07:36 PM   #10
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Well, the Power4 cannot be compared to the 8500 series, because the G5 from Motorola isn't ready in any form but an embedded one.

But, I found this link. It's fun to read:
http://commerce.www.ibm.com/content/...h_end/690.html
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 08:15 PM   #11
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g5 again....zzzzzz

[FONT=courier new][SIZE=3]its gotta be better than a motochip eh!!
all my money is belong to apple
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 08:42 PM   #12
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The Power4 does kick ass...

...but it kicks ass because it's huge and expensive. 125 watts of power, costs a fortune, and has 10GB/sec of memory bandwidth (which it gets by having a multichannel bus that would be rather impractical on a non-server machine, afaik). The Motorola 8540 (there is no 8500, officially) is very similar to a stripped down embedded version of AMD's Hammer. It is designed for modularity, which should allow it to be easily customized for desktop use (add floating point and Altivec, up the voltage a bit, take out the embedded only stuff. It'd be hard on a normal chip, but much easier, afaik, on the 8540). Also, the Power4 would eliminate the benefit of the investment in Altivec. If Apple were going to the Power4 we would see a decrease in Altivec optimization, not the increase we're seeing (10.2 looooves Altivec). I think this rumor is BS spread by the people who can't believe that Motorola is capable of making a decent chip. Go read up on the 8540, it's quite a bit better than just "decent".
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 10:15 PM   #13
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just in...

Just got some juicy and semi-timely details from a Senior
Motorola Engineer over a beer last night, here in the Heart of
Motorola, DQ, and Lone Star Country. I am fairly confident of
this info. I didn't push him too hard, as he seemed as if he didn't
want to talk about it in too much detail. He didn't seem to know
much about macs, other than as a curiosity. At least he doesn't
have the same insane fever most of us reading this have.

The scoop:

-Just "tapped out" what he refered to as Apollo7 this last week.

-Said it wouldn't be 2ghz, but "more like one and a half".
Odd, I thought, not "one point four," or "one point five,"
but "one and a half"... Commented that current powermacs
use Apollo6 chips.

-Said that they had been focusing on network and embedded chips
manufacture (8540s?), thinking that Apple was a gonner.
Only now that the networking market has slowed dramatically, and they
have seen the strength (and future hollywood following - my words)
of OSX have they renewed focus on Apple, and are making a more concerted
effort to move to high-power, big-guns, processors. He commented
that the next round or two of G4s *will* be coming from IBM, but
after that Motorola will be back and swinging with some more whopper
innovations like Altivec. Apparently this major move has only come
within the last month or so.

-Now for the doozy. According to internal roadmaps, he said they
expect to hit 5 to 6 ghz (!!) by late 2003, early 2004. He said their
next chip will be called a G7!! (He was as astonished and confused about
it as I was.) I don't think I've ever seen a roadmap play out as predicted,
but the numbers along with the renewed Apple/PPC/G4 movement is
heartening news after Motorola's early lackuster performance with the G4.

How long is it, typically, between the time when a chip has
been "tapped out" and when PowerMacs ship? A month? ;;>>

Last edited by 3G4N; Jul 13, 2002 at 11:03 PM.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 10:20 PM   #14
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Talking Easy MOSR -> Reality Conversion

Just take whatever little Ryan says after getting home to his parent's basement from the movie theatre and go the absolute OPPOSITE direction to get the truth.

Notice how he is slowly swinging around to match the infamous No new G4s from ThinkSecret/CNet/PMSNBC. You get the idea.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 10:54 PM   #15
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I do admit this doesn't seem possible because of the work required to make the chip (get it to do ppc- unless it is the ppc coding). What would be fun though is the ppc arch. is based off the power architechture, what could we do if we could "upgrade" the ppc from its parent architechture? Obviously its a risc chip but can it do ppc code good? Another maybe problem is the 125 watts, thus maybe and upgrade of ppc. One thing that would nice to see would be Motorola developing new technologies and doing a limited chip production and IBM using or liscencing those techs (or jointly making them with Moto) and making most of the stack of chips.
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Old Jul 13, 2002, 11:03 PM   #16
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well, Moto and IBM are ina na alliance, but I have another thought. Apple has been on a bit of a buying spree, maybe they are going to buy the Altivec tch form Moto, and liscence it to IBM. That would be pretty sweet, especialy if Moto has been leting Apple dangle for the last while. Htat would probably piss off apple enough to do something
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 01:21 AM   #17
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motorola suck... they can't even make phones properly...

plz steve! let's see some IBM power!
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 02:06 AM   #18
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I am vindicated!

If any of this POWER-derived Apple CPU stuff turns out to be true, it was ME who predicted it first!

In this post

And this post

Bwahaha. C'mon Ryan Meader, you yuppie bastard, don't fail me now.
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 04:12 AM   #19
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Does this ibm chip officially exist and is it ready to ship? If apple decided to make it from this chip how long would it take to design the hardware?
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 05:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by W-_-W
Does this ibm chip officially exist and is it ready to ship? If apple decided to make it from this chip how long would it take to design the hardware?
The Power4 does....... but the G5 that is rumoured to be based on it is just that at the moment.... a rumour.......

Something needs to be done with the PPC..... although IMHO the current G4 isn't a bad chip... so I'm not going to jump on the super-hyper-fashionable knock motorola to the ground bandwagon........ I'd much prefer that Apple, IBM and Motorola all work together to try and come up with a plan for the future of the PPC and it's uses on the next generation Apple hardware........
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 06:51 AM   #21
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Quite possible

The Power4 Lite is due in August, so it might be doable next year.

The cheapest Power4 *server* is around $43k, but includes massive disks, gigs of very fast ram and a multiple cpus. These things sell in thousands, not hundreds of thousands like Macs, so you can expect just a cpu bought in quantities of 500k might be a lot cheaper.

However, $43,000 per unit to $700 per unit is a big drop.
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 06:53 AM   #22
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I don't care what the G5 is..i just want it and I want it NOW...
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 07:47 AM   #23
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hmm...apple did a way good job of selling Altivec to you guys eh?

I hate to be a heretic, but Im not sure why everyone is so hung up on it - yes, at the time it was a better implementation of what was around, but other manufacturers have caught up. Not only that, but its hardly been used by any software since it was introduced. I wouldnt be exactly unhappy to see it disappear and be replaced by a similar set of extensions, and a better FPU.
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 07:56 AM   #24
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That's a sad comment.. what if they take a G3 kill all the cacha (ala Celeron) and name it G5? I hope you enjoy your new G5 not even capable of OSX

((Don't say you want something just because the name for it has been hyped..))
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Old Jul 14, 2002, 09:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pants
hmm...apple did a way good job of selling Altivec to you guys eh?

I hate to be a heretic, but Im not sure why everyone is so hung up on it - yes, at the time it was a better implementation of what was around, but other manufacturers have caught up. Not only that, but its hardly been used by any software since it was introduced. I wouldnt be exactly unhappy to see it disappear and be replaced by a similar set of extensions, and a better FPU.
Very true. Apple will drop it like a hot potato if they can get their hands on something much more faster and much more powerful. I would commend them for doing it. Having something on chip to handle TCP/IP processes and more? That would be major cool
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