White House Signaling "Ready To Drop Public Option" for Healthcare

[bobber205]

Good job Republicans. <_<
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32437468...s-white_house/

I wish Obama would ignore them completely sometimes. I'm all for bipartisan negotiations but this is ridiculous.

I've heard on NPR that co-ops are a good plan but I'm not happy with this news.

[freeny]

I doubt I will ever vote Republican again.

[mgguy]

Originally Posted by freeny

I doubt I will ever vote Republican again.

Is this because you liked the original democrat plan and are unhappy that the republicans may get it scaled back, or that you hate the original democrat plan and are unhappy that the republicans may end up negotiating a middle ground rather than trying to stop the whole thing?

I don't see this as any kind of victory for the republicans, since the plan will still massively increase government spending on healthcare by subsidizing the cost of private or coop coverage (if I understand this correctly).

[leekohler]

Without a public option, this is meaningless. Scrap it, and start over. This time, ignore the Republicans. Like I said in another thread- if you try to please everyone, you please no one.

[Iscariot]

Originally Posted by mgguy

Is this because you liked the original democrat plan and are unhappy that the republicans may get it scaled back, or that you hate the original democrat plan and are unhappy that the republicans may end up negotiating a middle ground rather than trying to stop the whole thing?

I don't see this as any kind of victory for the republicans, since the plan will still massively increase government spending on healthcare by subsidizing the cost of private or coop coverage (if I understand this correctly).

I don't think the end is anywhere near as important as the incredibly dishonest, partisan and morally bankrupt means.

[leekohler]

Originally Posted by Iscariot

I don't think the end is anywhere near as important as the incredibly dishonest, partisan and morally bankrupt means.

Exactly- the Republicans really outdid themselves this time. The have once again proven that fear is powerful motivator, even if that fear is based on utter and complete lies. The only people who will suffer for this is us.

[killerrobot]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Exactly- the Republicans really outdid themselves this time. The have once again proven that fear is powerful motivator, even if that fear is based on utter and complete lies. The only people who will suffer for this is us.

I would love to see any senator go without health insurance for a year - then make a vote using reason/personal experience instead of with their pockets being stuffed by lobbyists.
No public option is a total fail and all Americans, regardless of their political ideologies, will continue to suffer the high costs of health care.
Thanks, Congress, for nothing (if this sticks).

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by killerrobot

I would love to see any senator go without health insurance for a year

Thomas Veil's actually has.

[Eraserhead]

Originally Posted by leekohler

The only people who will suffer for this is us.

And everyone else in the world. If the US can't get a healthcare bill passed where then evidence is so black and white in support of public healthcare given how much cheaper it is (and its just as effective); then how in the world are they going to get a climate change bill passed which is massively more controversial.

I suppose we'll have to wait for the Chinese to save the world there.

[obeygiant]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Exactly- the Republicans really outdid themselves this time. The have once again proven that fear is powerful motivator, even if that fear is based on utter and complete lies. The only people who will suffer for this is us.

Republicans? lol

I think the dems really do need UHC-- to get a spine replacement! Or come up with something better.

[mgguy]

I don't see why dropping the public option is considered a complete failure of the democrats proposal. Wasn't the goal to ensure everyone (with subsidies as needed), place restriction on insurers (e.g., must take those with preexisting conditions), get rid of waste in Medicare, and take other cost cutting measures? Can't this still be done without a public insurer in the mix? If this passes, I would consider it more a failure for republicans than for democrats, especially provisions that would provide free care to those who are not disabled and should be able to earn enough to pay for their own coverage. If this passes as proposed sans a public option, it will still be a big foot in the door that would embolden UHC proponents to make further expansions of the system in the future. It is possible that the democrats realized they couldn't get a public provider option to begin with, but put it out there so that when it got blocked, they could then give it up in order to get everything else they wanted and pave the way for adding the public option later on after things calm down. The main thing for Obama, I believe, it to win politically regardless of what he actually ends up signing.

[Thomas Veil]

From the article:

Such a concession would likely enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.

Um...both right and wrong. Right that it will enrage liberals like me...wrong in that it will not be a win. It'll be a clear loss. Like lee says, these co-ops are meaningless. They won't do much if anything to reign in costs.

This is really, really stupid. Five out of six House/Senate committees are committed to the public option. The Dems can ram this through if they really want to. All they are doing is emboldening the Republicans. Now that they know they can run roughshod over the White House, Obama is in a much weaker position.

[PcBgone]

Hooray For a Smaller Government!

[MyDesktopBroke]

Well, Republicans, give yourselves a pat on the back. Somehow you managed to swing the debate into your corner. Despite losing the presidential election and most of congress, and losing huge support among minorities and youth demographics, you managed to win against the democrats. Super majority? You beat all the odds.

Somehow they thought that if they made a bill that catered to their liberal base, they could not clinch the all important reelection in 2010. So Blue Dogs, give yourself a pat on the back, too. You convinced yourself that the way to reelection was to vote against the party you ran under, while alienating the people who voter for you. You found that when you looked deep inside yourselves, it was with the southerners who called Obama a Nazi that you really agreed. Also, job well done on putting your comfy congress seat before the tens of thousands of American voters and taxpayers who will inevitably lose their jobs or, lord forbid, their lives, because you didn't want to tick off the minority. You got the lifeline to most important part of America: the status quo.

Overall, a great job from congress that will probably leave us will a huge spending, pork barrel bill that will not take effect until 2013, by which times the private health insurance companies will have read it hundreds of times, finding all the loopholes and workarounds they can, and exploit those loopholes. Keep on denying as many customers as possible with no fear of them falling back on a public option that no longer exists.

[bobber205]

Originally Posted by PcBgone

Hooray For a Smaller Government!

If we gave up the military we would have a MUCH smaller government.

[PcBgone]

Originally Posted by bobber205

If we gave up the military we would have a MUCH smaller government.

And then when we are attacked by the Iranians or the N Koreans what then? We cant defend ourselves?

Oh wait, your a liberal tree hugger that lives in a world where everyone lives together in perfect harmony, and there are no wars.

[fivepoint]

Don't be sad guys, here are some inspiring alternatives from Whole Foods' CEO John Mackey:

• Equalize the tax laws so that that employer-provided health insurance and individually owned health insurance have the same tax benefits. Now employer health insurance benefits are fully tax deductible, but individual health insurance is not. This is unfair.

• Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines. We should all have the legal right to purchase health insurance from any insurance company in any state and we should be able use that insurance wherever we live. Health insurance should be portable.

• Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover. These mandates have increased the cost of health insurance by billions of dollars. What is insured and what is not insured should be determined by individual customer preferences and not through special-interest lobbying.

• Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. These costs are passed back to us through much higher prices for health care.

• Make costs transparent so that consumers understand what health-care treatments cost. How many people know the total cost of their last doctor’s visit and how that total breaks down? What other goods or services do we buy without knowing how much they will cost us?

• Enact Medicare reform. We need to face up to the actuarial fact that Medicare is heading towards bankruptcy and enact reforms that create greater patient empowerment, choice and responsibility.

• Finally, revise tax forms to make it easier for individuals to make a voluntary, tax-deductible donation to help the millions of people who have no insurance and aren’t covered by Medicare, Medicaid or the State Children’s Health Insurance Program.

[smwatson]

Originally Posted by PcBgone

And then when we are attacked by the Iranians or the N Koreans what then? We cant defend ourselves?

Oh wait, your a liberal tree hugger that lives in a world where everyone lives together in perfect harmony, and there are no wars.

The last attacks by foreigners on US soil were Pearl Harbour and 9/11.
Neither of which your huge defence budget did particularly well with.

Obviously this is ridiculous because this doesn't even begin to take into account the behind the scenes work pre-empting attacks and whatnot. But it's still a fact - of the major attempted attacks on US soil, both have been successful.


**DISCLAIMER : I know that this does not even come close to covering everything associated with this issue. I don't know enough about it to even begin to talk about it. Flame if you wish**

[fivepoint]

Originally Posted by PcBgone

And then when we are attacked by the Iranians or the N Koreans what then? We cant defend ourselves?

Oh wait, your a liberal tree hugger that lives in a world where everyone lives together in perfect harmony, and there are no wars.

Originally Posted by smwatson

The last attacks by foreigners on US soil were Pearl Harbour and 9/11.
Neither of which your huge defence budget did particularly well with.

Obviously this is ridiculous because this doesn't even begin to take into account the behind the scenes work pre-empting attacks and whatnot. But it's still a fact - of the major attempted attacks on US soil, both have been successful.


**DISCLAIMER : I know that this does not even come close to covering everything associated with this issue. I don't know enough about it to even begin to talk about it. Flame if you wish**

If you guys want to talk foreign policy, start a thread and do it. But please... don't hijack this thread. I'll even offer to share my ideas regarding lessening our presence abroad and how it could save billions of taxpayer dollars.

[smwatson]

Originally Posted by fivepoint

If you guys want to talk foreign policy, start a thread and do it. But please... don't hijack this thread. I'll even offer to share my ideas regarding lessening our presence abroad and how it could save billions of taxpayer dollars.

No problems.

Though why this isn't on the massive healthcare thread anyway I don't know.

[Thomas Veil]

I am so sick of Obama's kumbaya routine. No, let's not all get along. Did Bush give a good goddamn about either public opinion or the Constitution when he was in office? Of course not. And while I'm not suggesting that Obama ignore the latter, I am suggesting he ignore the whack jobs who holler and shake their fists about death panels and socialism. If you start letting the lunatic fringe tell you what to do, you've lost all credibility, period.

I see there being only two good options left:

1. You want compromise? Fine, let's talk about compromise. In exchange for the government giving up the public option, the government not only gets to mandate that commercial insurance companies can't turn anyone down for any reason, but the government gets to set their rates. For those people who can't afford insurance, the insurance companies will have to cover them for free.
2. Painful as it may be in the short term, the sponsors of the bills withdraw them and try again in 2010. And the Democrats start strategically targeting their own Blue Dogs.

Of course, the insurance companies would cry blue murder at #1, and it's a long, long shot, but if you presented them with something that looked, to them, even worse than the public option.....

[PcBgone]

Originally Posted by Thomas Veil

1. You want compromise? Fine, let's talk about compromise. In exchange for the government giving up the public option, the government not only gets to mandate that commercial insurance companies can't turn anyone down for any reason, but the government gets to set their rates. For those people who can't afford insurance, the insurance companies will have to cover them for free.
2. Painful as it may be in the short term, the sponsors of the bills withdraw them and try again in 2010. And the Democrats start stratetically targeting their own Blue Dogs.

Of course, the insurance companies would cry blue murder at #1, and it's a long, long shot, but if you presented them with something that looked, to them, even worse than the public option.....

Just out of curiosity, what gives the right to the government to dictate how a business operates?

Government should protect the borders, build infrastructure, and negotiate trade. The rest should be left up to the people.

[KingYaba]

Originally Posted by smwatson

The last attacks by foreigners on US soil were Pearl Harbour and 9/11.

Do you consider embassies as U.S. soil? That's besides the point I know. Military budget needs to be reduced.

[leekohler]

Originally Posted by PcBgone

Just out of curiosity, what gives the right to the government to dictate how a business operates?

Government should protect the borders, build infrastructure, and negotiate trade. The rest should be left up to the people.

It should also protect its people from irresponsible businesses like insurance companies..

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by PcBgone

Just out of curiosity, what gives the right to the government to dictate how a business operates?

Government should protect the borders, build infrastructure, and negotiate trade. The rest should be left up to the people.

In order to protect the American people. Time and time again when the gov't deregulates business because they trust them to do the right thing, guess what? THEY DON'T DO THE RIGHT THING!