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Old Aug 18, 2009, 08:04 PM   #1
greedyhands
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graphic card Power Mac G5 Dual 2GHz

Hey, does anyone have experience with upgrading the graphics on a PMG5 Dual 2GHz (max 16gig, not the 8gig model)? I am looking for a better card and I am not sure what to search for on ebay. If somebody has experience with a good one that handles HD and a dual monitor set up well please let me know.

Thanks in advance
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 08:17 PM   #2
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Dual 2.o could be either AGP or PCIE.

You need to be sure of which you have before you look at cards.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 08:34 PM   #3
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i have the Quad G5, last generation of the G5. I'm using the Ati X1900 GT (G5 version of the card). It's getting old and slowing a bit. I believe you can also get a Nvidia 7800 GT for that year as well, which was only available via BTO option. Others have hacked 7800 PC versions to work on the PCIe versions of the G5 as well
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 09:40 PM   #4
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Alright, I've got it narrowed down to two choices. the nVidia 7800 GT with 256MB DDR3 and the nVidia Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB DDR3. There's a $250 difference between the two. I'd really like to save the money and get the 7800 but I don't want to end up not getting enough power. I've already got a 6600 LE 128MB installed and this is what I'd like to accomplish: I would like to run three monitors, with at least one, maybe two, dedicated to HD video. Would it be feasible to throw in the 7800 in addition to 6600 and be able to accomplish this without lag? At the moment, sometimes when I am surfing on one screen and watching HD video on the other, the loading of the web pages makes the video get laggy. This doesn't happen with regular AVIs though. If I used the 7800 for two DVI-HDMI connected 1080P monitors, and the 6600 for one VGA connected 720P monitor do you think this would reach my desired effect if I had 16GB RAM installed?
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 10:22 PM   #5
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The 7800GT should work well with a 6600 to do 3 monitors.

There is a rather rare upgrade option in the form of a 7800GTX512, which got tested on Barefeats. Fastest PPC card ever. Occasionally they pop up on Ebay from a few different vendors. Search for "mac 7800gtx 512"

http://www.barefeats.com/mutant4.html

Runs circles around the other cards, even the Quadro 4500.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 10:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Rominator View Post
The 7800GT should work well with a 6600 to do 3 monitors.

There is a rather rare upgrade option in the form of a 7800GTX512, which got tested on Barefeats. Fastest PPC card ever. Occasionally they pop up on Ebay from a few different vendors. Search for "mac 7800gtx 512"

http://www.barefeats.com/mutant4.html

Runs circles around the other cards, even the Quadro 4500.
Sweet! I found one up on eBay. Thanks for the heads up my friend. It's cheaper than the 4500 too.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 03:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by greedyhands View Post
Sweet! I found one up on eBay. Thanks for the heads up my friend. It's cheaper than the 4500 too.
Sorry to inform you, but the ATI X1900 is much faster than the 7800GTX512 and for 1/2 the cost.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 02:53 PM   #8
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Sorry to inform you, but the ATI X1900 is much faster than the 7800GTX512 and for 1/2 the cost.

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't purchased one just yet, however I am noticing that the only version of the ATI X1900 I can find for the G5 only has 256MB, the 512 versions seem to be Mac Pro only. I may be mistaken, but I just don't quite feel that the X1900 will be able to run faster than the 7800GTX with only half the RAM. Like I said, that is only my assumption, and if I am wrong I would be more than happy to spend less on that card. As it is, I am trying very hard to make sure I don't end up buying a card with too little power and regretting it.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 03:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Sorry to inform you, but the ATI X1900 is much faster than the 7800GTX512 and for 1/2 the cost.
Not correct.

You may be thinking of the X1900XT which came for Mac Pros. The X1900GT for G5s was much less powerful, with reduced cores, RAM, etc.

Look here for comparison with X1900GT and 7800.

http://www.barefeats.com/quad15.html

You will see that they are pretty evenly matched.

And from the first link, you can see that the 7800GTX MOPS THE FLOOR with a 7800GT.

Or, if you wish to see the results directly between 7800GTX512 and X1900GT in WIndows, look here:

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/video/r580-5.html

(warning...kinda bloody, the 7800GTX512 wins by as much as 50% at high res and AA)

The image here is pretty self explanatory, from the linked article.

With far greater bandwidth and RAM, the 7800GTX512 leaves an X1900GT for dead.
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 07:40 PM   #10
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You can get the fastest video card on the planet, but i'm not really sure its going to help your video's skipping frames. Video decoding is done mostly by the CPU, so when those HD video's are skipping, its most likely because your G5 can't keep up, not because the video card can't. Some newer video cards do have hardware decoding features, but your current 6600 might already do that, and OS X doesn't take advantage of the feature half as well as windows does, so you might not even end up seeing a difference.
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 01:10 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Rominator View Post
Not correct.
Very much correct. I have used both cards and the X1900 (GTO, the only one that works in the G5) is faster in everything except a few photoshop tests.

Quote:
With far greater bandwidth and RAM, the 7800GTX512 leaves an X1900GT for dead.
Thats not even remotely true. My $100 X1900 is much faster than my $250 7800GTX512.
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 04:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Very much correct. I have used both cards and the X1900 (GTO, the only one that works in the G5) is faster in everything except a few photoshop tests.


Thats not even remotely true. My $100 X1900 is much faster than my $250 7800GTX512.


Color me skeptical, but given your history of always touting whatever hardware you currently have, or have had, as the only item worth having, and given the fact that there is such a difference in the amount of RAM on the cards, I would really need to see benchmarks to believe you. What you are saying, and what the specs say, don't really match up.
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 09:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Very much correct. I have used both cards and the X1900 (GTO, the only one that works in the G5) is faster in everything except a few photoshop tests.


Thats not even remotely true. My $100 X1900 is much faster than my $250 7800GTX512.
Perhaps you forgot to connect the power cable on the 7800GTX?

Seeing as how what you are saying contradicts every single benchmark I linked too, I'd be curious to see some evidence.

I will have one of each card in my hands next week. By all means, please tell me what apps to test so I can recreate your results.

Did you look at any of the links I provided? Basically you are claiming things which go against typical computer experience. (More and faster RAM and cores typically means faster card)
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Old Aug 20, 2009, 11:46 PM   #14
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graphics card in g5 power mac dual 2ghz

i have the same model machine (i think) and want to replace my AGP card with a new one - my previous card was 64mb only GeForce FX 5200 - i have had heaps of trouble finding one in australia and finally bought one from usa. a nvidia geforce 6800 gt. 256mb. but now i cant seem to make it work as it requires power from somewhere? apparently you can re-route power from optical drive? i have no idea..
there is heaps of stuff about flashing pc cards to make them work in macs - if you read rest of forum posts.
hopefully we can both get some answers here!
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 12:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mazziestarr View Post
i have the same model machine (i think) and want to replace my AGP card with a new one - my previous card was 64mb only GeForce FX 5200 - i have had heaps of trouble finding one in australia and finally bought one from usa. a nvidia geforce 6800 gt. 256mb. but now i cant seem to make it work as it requires power from somewhere? apparently you can re-route power from optical drive? i have no idea..
there is heaps of stuff about flashing pc cards to make them work in macs - if you read rest of forum posts.
hopefully we can both get some answers here!
Actually, you have a previous model to mine. My G5 has a PCIE interface, where as yours is AGP. I'm not sure exactly how to go about re-routing the power on your issue, but I did read your other post about it. I seem to agree with some of the sentiments others have espoused that you should have installation instructions included with any flashed card. If you haven't already, try to contact the vendor about that. If the cable you need wasn't included, I would say it is fairly likely that you got sent a PC card instead. As I've never installed an AGP card, I couldn't really answer any query for sure, but I would assume the best place to start is an email with your issues stated in it sent to the merchant you purchased your card from.
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 02:50 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by greedyhands View Post
Color me skeptical, but given your history of always touting whatever hardware you currently have, or have had, as the only item worth having
So wanting to have the best for the computers I have (and had), is a bad thing?

Quote:
and given the fact that there is such a difference in the amount of RAM on the cards
Ram is merely a frame buffer and storage. Unless you're working with material large and complex enough to actually use it all, having 256 or 512mb makes no difference.

Quote:
What you are saying, and what the specs say, don't really match up.
And a 1.8ghz Core2Duo is faster than a 3.8GHz Pentium4. Specs don't translate directly to real world performance.

There is also the fact ATI's Mac drivers are much better than Nvidia's.

7800GTX 512
Quote:
Results 122.70
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.4 (9E17)
Physical RAM 3584 MB
Model PowerMac11,2
Processor PowerPC G5x2 @ 2.30 GHz
L1 Cache 64K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 1024K @ 2.30 GHz
Bus Frequency 1 GHz
Drive Type WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0 WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0
Quartz Graphics Test 165.55
Line 132.24 8.80 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 155.06 46.29 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 144.67 11.79 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 146.57 3.70 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 407.15 25.47 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 94.66
Spinning Squares 94.66 120.08 frames/sec
User Interface Test 150.93
Elements 150.93 692.70 refresh/sec
X1900
Quote:
Results 124.53
System Info
Xbench Version 1.3
System Version 10.5.4 (9E17)
Physical RAM 3584 MB
Model PowerMac11,2
Processor PowerPC G5x2 @ 2.30 GHz
L1 Cache 64K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 1024K @ 2.30 GHz
Bus Frequency 1 GHz
Drive Type WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0 WDC WD5000KS-00MNB0
Quartz Graphics Test 163.04
Line 129.70 8.64 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 158.03 47.18 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 142.52 11.62 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 142.56 3.60 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 384.75 24.07 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 126.47
Spinning Squares 126.47 160.43 frames/sec
User Interface Test 142.96
Elements 142.96 656.13 refresh/sec
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rominator View Post
Perhaps you forgot to connect the power cable on the 7800GTX?
Not possible. The card will not work without it.
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 08:07 AM   #17
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Even young schoolchildren know that Xbench is worthless for GPU benchmarking.

I'll be back to my Mac on Tuesday, will run some actual benchmarks then.

But I don't understand how you can claim that all of the published ones are wrong.
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Old Aug 21, 2009, 10:16 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Rominator View Post
Even young schoolchildren know that Xbench is worthless for GPU benchmarking.
Even elementary school children know using ad hominem arguments in a debate only demonstrates your lack of pertinent data.

Quote:
But I don't understand how you can claim that all of the published ones are wrong.
Its easy. I've tried it, the $250 7800GTX is a terrible deal compared to the $100 X1900.
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Old Aug 22, 2009, 01:31 AM   #19
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Even elementary school children know using ad hominem arguments in a debate only demonstrates your lack of pertinent data.
Ask one of those children about "ad hominem".

1. appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.
2. attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.

It applies when someone lacks actual facts and uses a basic emotional argument to push their side of a debate. I have provided several links to independent tests, all of which showed the GTX to win by substantial margins. You have provided ZERO (0) links to any support for your side, just a couple old, potentially photoshopped tests you claim to have run personally. (10.5.4? really?) You are the one who appears to lack actual facts, so perhaps you have used the phrase incorrectly? Just a thought.

I will be happy to run any sort of currently accepted benchmark on Tuesday 8/25/09 to compare these cards. Until then I would be surprised if you could wrangle up even a single link to another person or site who shares your strong allegiance to the X1900GT. Tests will be run in a Dual 2.0 G5, I believe it has 6 Gigs RAM, not sure right now. Monitor to be used is an Apple Cinema Display and I will run tests at 2560x1600 and 1920x1200. Photos will be taken of cards and machine and I will be happy to host any witnesses who are bored enough to attend and live in Hollywood, CA. (BYO Beer)

XBench has NOT BEEN UPDATED for more than three (3) years. If you can find a single reputable or respected Mac site or reviewer using it currently to compare GPUs....well.....you won't. It is generally regarded to be pointless and inaccurate for this purpose and has fallen out of use for this very reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300D View Post
I have used both cards and the X1900 (GTO, the only one that works in the G5) is faster in everything except a few photoshop tests.
"Everything" is a mighty big word. Hope you're hungry.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:20 PM   #20
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Mac G5 Video Card Showdown

Here they are, the contenders. I decided to include the "other" G5 upgrade, the 7800GT.

The X1900GT and the 7800GT are the official "OEM" versions, not flashed ones.

The 7800GTX512 is a flashed one, since there was no other way to have one.

I got these cards late today so actual testing will begin tomorrow.

Plan on running:

1. OpenGl Extension Viewer Benchmark
2. Cinebench
3. Doom 3
4. Halo

Anyone else got something to suggest? Needs to be easily downloadable.

Specs:

GeForce 7800 GT

Slot Compatibility: PCIe (PCI Express, NOT PCI-X)
ROM (Firmware) Revision: v2152.2 (Newest)
VRAM: 256MB 256-bit GDDR3
Memory Clock: 500MHz (1,000MHz GDDR3)
Memory Bandwidth 32 Gb/S
GPU Clock: 400MHz
OS Compatibility: OS X Tiger 10.4.6 - 10.5.1 Leopard
Connectors: Dual DVI-I (One dual-link and one single-link)
Display Modes: Single or Dual DVI , Extended Desktop, Mirrored Display
Core Image Support: Yes
Quartz Extreme Support: Yes
Maximum Analog (CRT) Resolution: 2048 x 1536 @ 85hz
Maximum DVI (LCD) Resolution: 2560 x 1600 @ 60hz (up to 30" Apple Cinema HD Display) on dual-link DVI-I port; 1920 x 1200 @ 60hz (up to 23" Apple Cinema HD Display) on single-link DVI-I port

GeForce 7800 GTX

VRAM : 512MB 256-bit GDDR3
Pixel pipeline 16-pixel pipeline
Slot Compatibility : PCI-E (PCI Express)
ROM (Firmware) vevision: v2149 (Latest)
Memory Clock : 850MHz (1700MHz GDDR3)
Memory Bandwidth : 54.4 Gb/S
GPU Clock: 550Mhz
Hardware Compatibility : PCI-E Dual Core / Quad-Core G5
OS Compatibility : OS X Tiger 10.4.6 - 10.5.8 Leopard
Connectors : 2 x Dual Link DVI-I
Display Modes : 2 x Dual Link DVI-I , Extended Desktop, Mirrored Display
Maximum Analog Resolution : 2048 x 1536 @ 85hz (with DVI>VGA adapter)
Maximum DVI Resolution : 2 @ 2560 x 1600 @ 60hz


X1900GT

ROM (Firmware) Revision: v109 (Latest)
VRAM: 256MB 256-bit GDDR3
Memory Clock : 600MHz (1200MHz GDDR3)
Memory Bandwidth: 38.4Gb/S
GPU Clock : 500Mhz
OS Compatibility: OS X 10.4.6 - 10.5.6 Leopard
Connectors: 2 x Dual Link DVI-I
Core Image Support : Yes
Quartz Extreme Support: Yes
Maximum available analog (VGA CRT or LCD) resolution is 2048 x 1536 @ 85hz
Maximum DVI (LCD) Resolution 2560 x 1600 @ 60hz (up to 2 30" Apple Cinema HD Displays) on dual-link DVI-I ports
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:09 AM   #21
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The stock cooler of the X1900XT was useless. Everybody I know replaced it with a proper one ASAP.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:15 AM   #22
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Dear Rominator, you are my kind of guy.

Are you married? (Just kidding.)

Let us know how the testing works and what are you going to do with three cards afterwards? I would have let you borrow my Quadro card but i just sold the Quad.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 05:57 AM   #23
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The stock cooler of the X1900XT was useless.
I agree. I replaced mine with this:
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 09:27 AM   #24
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Rominator, thank you very much for all of the research you have put into this with your own cards. I really appreciate that. I am interested to see the results.
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 09:29 AM   #25
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oh, and 300, I'm not a retard, I know what RAM is for. I also know that more RAM does create HD rendering with less, or no, glitchy spots. Since I clearly stated in my OP that my intent was to be able to run HD without any hiccups, I would say that, yes, 512mb will definitely serve me better than 256. But I digress, I am anxiously awaiting the results.
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