G3 Blue and White Question...

Wilson · Jul 23, 2004, 07:09 PM

I just had a Powermac G3 blue and white given to me and I have a few questions. It's 450Mhz with 192MB of RAM. I want to be able to do some graphic design work on the machine (photoshop, illustrator and quark), and I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to upgrade the RAM on such an old computer? It cost about $100USD just for 256MB of RAM, and I think I would at least need 2x256MB in able to run my programs smoothly. What OS would you recommend me running this machine at? Right now it's formatted with 8.6...I guess I should upgrade to 9.2 and don't even think of OS X right?

Any help with this would be great. Thanks.

bousozoku · Jul 23, 2004, 07:16 PM

Actually, you can get a lot of graphic design work done with one of those, if it's got Mac OS X and it's full of RAM.

I, however, did recently upgrade my B&W G3/400 to a G3/800 and it does make my impatience subside.

Macmaniac · Jul 23, 2004, 07:28 PM

With 512mb of RAM and 9.2 you should be able to handle photoshop ok, X is a RAM hog so you will probably get better performance out of 9.2 wit a lot of RAM.

Wilson · Jul 23, 2004, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bousozoku

Actually, you can get a lot of graphic design work done with one of those, if it's got Mac OS X and it's full of RAM.

I, however, did recently upgrade my B&W G3/400 to a G3/800 and it does make my impatience subside.

Can this machine handle running Panther with 704MB of RAM(I have 192 right now, plus 512)? How much did it cost to upgrade to 800mhz?

Thanks.

Macmaniac · Jul 23, 2004, 07:44 PM

From OWC www.macsales.com
The B/W takes only 256mb sticks
256MB PC100 CL2 168 pin SDRam for Apple PowerMac G3 Beige, G3 Blue & White, G4 'Yikes' PCI models; AMD based PCs(check logic board requirements). LifeTime Warranty! (OWC100SD256324) more info...
$39.75

PowerForce ZIF:
PowerLogix PowerForce G3/800MHz ZIF with 512K L2 On-Chip Cache for the Power Mac G3 Beige, Blue & White. New with 2yr Warranty. (PLGPFZ800) more info...
$199.99

5300cs · Jul 23, 2004, 07:44 PM

I have a B&W G3 w/768 ram and it runs Panther quite well. Of course it's got a 32Meg video card which helps a lot...

Macmaniac · Jul 23, 2004, 07:54 PM

Yes a better video card would work well too, using the 16mb video card that came with the B/W will choke on Panther.

ATI Technologies RADEON 9200 128MB MacEdition PCI Graphics Card. New, 3yr ATI Warranty. ***PRE-ORDER-July 12th ATI ETA Update - now ATI quotes delivery ETA of July 26th - slightly improved vs. prior Aug 3rd ETA** (ATI100436011) more info...
$129.00

For about $400 you could hoist this machine to a 800mhz G3 processor, 704mb RAM, and a 128mb Video card, this would be a fairly respectable machine for a small cost, you can also get a 800mhz G4 processor from OWC for $299.

Wilson · Jul 23, 2004, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macmaniac

From OWC www.macsales.com
The B/W takes only 256mb sticks
256MB PC100 CL2 168 pin SDRam for Apple PowerMac G3 Beige, G3 Blue & White, G4 'Yikes' PCI models; AMD based PCs(check logic board requirements). LifeTime Warranty! (OWC100SD256324) more info...
$39.75

What's the difference with all the Ram that is available for the PowerMac G3 b/w? The price for a 256MB stick ranges from $39 to $98....Would I be able to get away with purchasing the cheaper one that is $39?

bousozoku · Jul 23, 2004, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson

Can this machine handle running Panther with 704MB of RAM(I have 192 right now, plus 512)? How much did it cost to upgrade to 800mhz?

Thanks.

That's exactly how much I have in mine right now and it's fine, but it was better at 1GB.

I think it was $229, but it's probably cheaper now since the 1 GHz and 1.1 GHz upgrades are out.

I got everything from OtherWorld Computing--they're great.

emc2 · Jul 23, 2004, 10:14 PM

I recently set up a G3 450 iMac for a client with 512 mb of RAM, I installed OS 9.2, Photoshop 5.5, Illustrator 8, Flash 4, and Dreamweaver 3. In addition to be much better suited for the slower processor, these programs are much simpler to navigate for novice to moderate users. After setting the machine up and putting through it's paces I almost missed the simplicity of the 9.2 versions of these industry standards. All of these versions will run great on a G3 450 (close to the top of the line when these programs were released) and will love 192 mb and the older Rage 128. The files that you create can be opened in any later version of of said programs and when you upgrade your computer, processor and applications you can take your files with you. I know that 9.2 isn't as sexy as Panther, but from a production standpoint you will still be able to create professional results that are cross OS compatable, and will keep you from having to spend a bucket load of money. Even if you decide to go with OS X for the iApps, etc. I would suggest considering these older versions of design software that will open in "classic" mode, you will find that they run much faster on your machine. If you must go with OS X.3 and Adobe CS or Macromedia MX then a CPU upgrade will keep you from pulling your hair out. For the record, until recently I was running a G4 500 with 1GB of ram using X.3 with all the latest Adobe and Macromedia and it was sloooow.....

FlamDrag · Jul 23, 2004, 10:23 PM

I still run Panther, Photoshop et. al. on a Pismo (G3 500 Powerbook) albeit with 1GB of RAM. It doesn't win any races and large files in Photoshop can choke it. Otherwise, it's a perfectly serviceable machine.

kansaigaijin · Jul 23, 2004, 10:41 PM

don't waste your time with 9.2 ,
get with the program

I have a G5 that has been running now for 34 days, my G4 would have been even longer but for some experimenting with a different drive.

9 WILL crash on you. Max the RAM and get the best video card you can afford, then run PCI-Extreme on it (also available from OWC website or version tracker)

AngeredTree · Jul 23, 2004, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson

Can this machine handle running Panther with 704MB of RAM(I have 192 right now, plus 512)? How much did it cost to upgrade to 800mhz?

Thanks.

I had a B&W G3/350 with 704 Megs of RAM and it ran Jaguar fine....I also ran Photoshop with it, but no major photo editing...It was stable and all, the RAM really helped a lot...No speed demon, though...

chv400 · Jul 23, 2004, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kansaigaijin

don't waste your time with 9.2 ,
get with the program

I have a G5 that has been running now for 34 days, my G4 would have been even longer but for some experimenting with a different drive.

9 WILL crash on you. Max the RAM and get the best video card you can afford, then run PCI-Extreme on it (also available from OWC website or version tracker)

This is luck i was going to buy the 9200 card and changed my mind this PCI Extrme thing saved gave me a pretty noticable improvement. As of now i have only tested Expose and minimizing. (Expose looks sooo much better now)

rickvanr · Oct 6, 2004, 11:51 PM

my g3/ 450 with 448 ram runs fine... now its pokey compared to my tibook when im doing alot of things at once, but it handles illustrator 10 quite easily.

would you notice a different with 512 ram over 1gig ram?

Faraday · Oct 7, 2004, 02:06 AM

I recently bought some 256 MB PC133 RAM modules for a B&W G3, and I found that the B&W G3 needs the more expensive 'double sided' 256 MB RAM modules, with 16 chips (8 each side) on the module, rather than the cheaper 'single sided' modules, which only have 8 chips on one side of the RAM module.

When I intially tried the cheaper 'single sided' 256 MB modules, they were only recognised as 128 MB. I was told that the double sided modules are only required by machines with older, less capable memory controllers, and hence sell in much smaller volumes and are more expensive.

This may explain why 256 MB PC133 memory modules compatible with the B&W G3 are significantly more expensive than those compatible with other, later, models.

This is consistent with the B&W G3 developer docs, which indicate that the B&W memory controller supports a maximum RAM chip density of 128 Mbit. i.e. 128 Mbit x 8 chips x 2 sides = 256 MByte. I believe this will only be an issue with the 256 MB modules, and not with 128 MB or smaller modules.

Of course, YMMV ...

CrackedButter · Oct 7, 2004, 02:11 AM

I'm running Panther on a G3 350 with 578megs of ram. Performance is okay, but I have tweaked some performance settings, such as removing window shadows and such. I'm tempted to get some small jumpers later and overclock it to 400Mhz. Somewhere down the line I will buy an upgrade card for it.

cluthz · Oct 7, 2004, 06:36 AM

I'm running Panther (10.3) on my G4@400mhz with 512MB RAM and it runs good. If you get a 800mhz G4, a PCI Radeon 9200 and 512 extra RAM you will have a screaming B&W. OWC has 256 MB RAM for your computer for $32.95.
FI you plan to upgrade the whole machine, beware that eMacs can be bought cheap.
G4/800- $299
Radeon9200- $129
512mb RAM- $65.90
total- $493.90

an eMac (G4/1.25GHZ) cocst new $799 (+512 RAM ca $890)

rhpenguin · 09:31 AM

Heres my sugestion.. Get PC133 SDRAM and overclock your machiine a bit

FSB overclocking really helps this machine a lot giving it just that little bit of extra thoughtput. Keep in mind if you do this your going to need to aquire additinoal cooling. The cool part about these machines though is that you can use any socket 7 cooler made (if its the right size... if not, yout choppin out the zip bay and a good portion on the chassis to get it to close... but what am i saying... mods are fun

). If your going to do this though, i do sugest using the orgiinal clip from the Apple heatsink to apply proper pressure on the zif so it cools properly. Also scrape off the Apple heatpad and get some thermal grease. I recomend arctic silver 5.

All information about overclocking can be found here

Jul 23, 2004, 07:09 PM	#1
Wilson macrumors regular Join Date: Jun 2004	G3 Blue and White Question... I just had a Powermac G3 blue and white given to me and I have a few questions. It's 450Mhz with 192MB of RAM. I want to be able to do some graphic design work on the machine (photoshop, illustrator and quark), and I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to upgrade the RAM on such an old computer? It cost about $100USD just for 256MB of RAM, and I think I would at least need 2x256MB in able to run my programs smoothly. What OS would you recommend me running this machine at? Right now it's formatted with 8.6...I guess I should upgrade to 9.2 and don't even think of OS X right? Any help with this would be great. Thanks.
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 07:28 PM	#3
Macmaniac macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: A tiny spec in the "Garden State", 1 square mile in area, somewhere on the outskirts of town by the railroad tracks	With 512mb of RAM and 9.2 you should be able to handle photoshop ok, X is a RAM hog so you will probably get better performance out of 9.2 wit a lot of RAM. __________________ The customer is NOT always right
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 07:44 PM	#5
Macmaniac macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: A tiny spec in the "Garden State", 1 square mile in area, somewhere on the outskirts of town by the railroad tracks	From OWC www.macsales.com The B/W takes only 256mb sticks 256MB PC100 CL2 168 pin SDRam for Apple PowerMac G3 Beige, G3 Blue & White, G4 'Yikes' PCI models; AMD based PCs(check logic board requirements). LifeTime Warranty! (OWC100SD256324) more info... $39.75 PowerForce ZIF: PowerLogix PowerForce G3/800MHz ZIF with 512K L2 On-Chip Cache for the Power Mac G3 Beige, Blue & White. New with 2yr Warranty. (PLGPFZ800) more info... $199.99 __________________ The customer is NOT always right
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 07:44 PM	#6
5300cs macrumors 68000 Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: japan	I have a B&W G3 w/768 ram and it runs Panther quite well. Of course it's got a 32Meg video card which helps a lot... __________________
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 07:54 PM	#7
Macmaniac macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: A tiny spec in the "Garden State", 1 square mile in area, somewhere on the outskirts of town by the railroad tracks	Yes a better video card would work well too, using the 16mb video card that came with the B/W will choke on Panther. ATI Technologies RADEON 9200 128MB MacEdition PCI Graphics Card. New, 3yr ATI Warranty. *PRE-ORDER-July 12th ATI ETA Update - now ATI quotes delivery ETA of July 26th - slightly improved vs. prior Aug 3rd ETA (ATI100436011) more info... $129.00 For about $400 you could hoist this machine to a 800mhz G3 processor, 704mb RAM, and a 128mb Video card, this would be a fairly respectable machine for a small cost, you can also get a 800mhz G4 processor from OWC for $299. __________________ The customer is NOT always right
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 07:16 PM	#2
bousozoku Retired (Moderator emeritus) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gone but not forgotten.	Actually, you can get a lot of graphic design work done with one of those, if it's got Mac OS X and it's full of RAM. I, however, did recently upgrade my B&W G3/400 to a G3/800 and it does make my impatience subside.
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 10:14 PM	#10
emc2 macrumors newbie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Either Seattle or Kona...	I recently set up a G3 450 iMac for a client with 512 mb of RAM, I installed OS 9.2, Photoshop 5.5, Illustrator 8, Flash 4, and Dreamweaver 3. In addition to be much better suited for the slower processor, these programs are much simpler to navigate for novice to moderate users. After setting the machine up and putting through it's paces I almost missed the simplicity of the 9.2 versions of these industry standards. All of these versions will run great on a G3 450 (close to the top of the line when these programs were released) and will love 192 mb and the older Rage 128. The files that you create can be opened in any later version of of said programs and when you upgrade your computer, processor and applications you can take your files with you. I know that 9.2 isn't as sexy as Panther, but from a production standpoint you will still be able to create professional results that are cross OS compatable, and will keep you from having to spend a bucket load of money. Even if you decide to go with OS X for the iApps, etc. I would suggest considering these older versions of design software that will open in "classic" mode, you will find that they run much faster on your machine. If you must go with OS X.3 and Adobe CS or Macromedia MX then a CPU upgrade will keep you from pulling your hair out. For the record, until recently I was running a G4 500 with 1GB of ram using X.3 with all the latest Adobe and Macromedia and it was sloooow.....
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 10:23 PM	#11
FlamDrag macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Western Hemisphere	I still run Panther, Photoshop et. al. on a Pismo (G3 500 Powerbook) albeit with 1GB of RAM. It doesn't win any races and large files in Photoshop can choke it. Otherwise, it's a perfectly serviceable machine. __________________ Hook 'em Horns! - Who am I kidding? Boomer Sooner!
	0

Jul 23, 2004, 10:41 PM	#12
kansaigaijin macrumors 6502 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: the great ether	don't waste your time with 9.2 , get with the program I have a G5 that has been running now for 34 days, my G4 would have been even longer but for some experimenting with a different drive. 9 WILL crash on you. Max the RAM and get the best video card you can afford, then run PCI-Extreme on it (also available from OWC website or version tracker)
	0

Oct 6, 2004, 11:51 PM	#15
rickvanr macrumors 68040 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brockville	my g3/ 450 with 448 ram runs fine... now its pokey compared to my tibook when im doing alot of things at once, but it handles illustrator 10 quite easily. would you notice a different with 512 ram over 1gig ram? __________________ rickdiculous.. < o >
	0

Oct 7, 2004, 02:06 AM	#16
Faraday macrumors member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Melbourne Australia	256 MB Ram modules for B&W G3 I recently bought some 256 MB PC133 RAM modules for a B&W G3, and I found that the B&W G3 needs the more expensive 'double sided' 256 MB RAM modules, with 16 chips (8 each side) on the module, rather than the cheaper 'single sided' modules, which only have 8 chips on one side of the RAM module. When I intially tried the cheaper 'single sided' 256 MB modules, they were only recognised as 128 MB. I was told that the double sided modules are only required by machines with older, less capable memory controllers, and hence sell in much smaller volumes and are more expensive. This may explain why 256 MB PC133 memory modules compatible with the B&W G3 are significantly more expensive than those compatible with other, later, models. This is consistent with the B&W G3 developer docs, which indicate that the B&W memory controller supports a maximum RAM chip density of 128 Mbit. i.e. 128 Mbit x 8 chips x 2 sides = 256 MByte. I believe this will only be an issue with the 256 MB modules, and not with 128 MB or smaller modules. Of course, YMMV ...
	0

Oct 7, 2004, 02:11 AM	#17
CrackedButter macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: 51st State of America	I'm running Panther on a G3 350 with 578megs of ram. Performance is okay, but I have tweaked some performance settings, such as removing window shadows and such. I'm tempted to get some small jumpers later and overclock it to 400Mhz. Somewhere down the line I will buy an upgrade card for it. __________________ "Absorb what is useful, Discard what is not, Add what is uniquely your own" - Bruce Lee http://jonathanjk.com
	0

Oct 7, 2004, 06:36 AM	#18
cluthz macrumors 68030 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norway	I'm running Panther (10.3) on my G4@400mhz with 512MB RAM and it runs good. If you get a 800mhz G4, a PCI Radeon 9200 and 512 extra RAM you will have a screaming B&W. OWC has 256 MB RAM for your computer for $32.95. FI you plan to upgrade the whole machine, beware that eMacs can be bought cheap. G4/800- $299 Radeon9200- $129 512mb RAM- $65.90 total- $493.90 an eMac (G4/1.25GHZ) cocst new $799 (+512 RAM ca $890) __________________ -tb MacBook Air 13" i5 osx10.7.5 HackPro 4.3GHz, 16GB RAM, GTX660OC, 2x OCZ Vertex 3, win7+osx10.8.3
	0

Oct 7, 2004, 09:25 AM	#19
rhpenguin macrumors 6502a Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London, Ontario	Heres my sugestion.. Get PC133 SDRAM and overclock your machiine a bit FSB overclocking really helps this machine a lot giving it just that little bit of extra thoughtput. Keep in mind if you do this your going to need to aquire additinoal cooling. The cool part about these machines though is that you can use any socket 7 cooler made (if its the right size... if not, yout choppin out the zip bay and a good portion on the chassis to get it to close... but what am i saying... mods are fun ). If your going to do this though, i do sugest using the orgiinal clip from the Apple heatsink to apply proper pressure on the zif so it cools properly. Also scrape off the Apple heatpad and get some thermal grease. I recomend arctic silver 5. All information about overclocking can be found here __________________ Hacintosh >>Gigabyte EP45-UD3P>C2D E6600@3.8GHz>8800GTS 640MB>8GB RAM>4TB HDD>2x BD-R>OSX 10.5 I don't do piracy. I do support breaking EULAs. Last edited by rhpenguin; Oct 7, 2004 at 09:31 AM.
	0


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