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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:30 AM   #26
Evangelion
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Just because it has large windows does not have to mean that it's expensive to heat. In Finland we have triple and quad-plated windows, and they keep the house warm even if it's -30c outside. Then you can have heat-pumps that extract heat from the air (or ground), and those can provide you with cheap and green heating. Then you can also heat the floor, which would make the occupants feel warm (you feel warm if your feet are warm), even if the actual air-temperature was 1-3c lower than normally.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:31 AM   #27
Erwin-Br
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So much wasted space...

Well, this store is a reminder where the absurdly high profit margins on Apple's hardware is going. I'd rather see them investing all that money in R&D so Apple's products will remain competitive.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:31 AM   #28
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Architecturally, it's like a freakin' Winnebago. Nothing beautiful or striking about it except its size.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:35 AM   #29
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I agree the store front looks huge!! But is there a downstairs also? The second pictures, it looks like there's a staircase leading down.....
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:35 AM   #30
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I'm surprised there aren't more levels bit I understand the idea. It's meant to be a massive stage and stages aren't multileveled.

I wonder if it echos when talking in there? Surely they would have thought of that.

I'm sure the energy footprint will be offset somehow too.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALpianoman
I agree the store front looks huge!! But is there a downstairs also? The second pictures, it looks like there's a staircase leading down.....
As the story on the front page states, just like Fifth Avenue, it has an underground level.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:38 AM   #31
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Consider the location...

Guys, you don't get the idea behind the design, yes it's big, yes it's tall, but it is an homage to the Proscenium Stage.

It's a nod to the neighborhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscenium
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:42 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by MattrixMSP View Post
Guys, you don't get the idea behind the design, yes it's big, yes it's tall, but it is an homage to the Proscenium Stage.

It's a nod to the neighborhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscenium
+1

I don't think some of these negative commenters really "get" NYC or the Lincoln Center area. As big and noticeable as it is, it still kind of "fits in."
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:42 AM   #33
iOrlando
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Originally Posted by Parky View Post
Heating and cooling will be significantly more than a normal store.
And lights will be required much of the time, in fact I bet they have them on all the time regardless. It is a waste of space and very ungreen
wow what a reply. 0 substance or argument added to my claim. Nice job. Stick to replying to noobs.

and what college did you get your mechanical engineering/HVAC degree from since you seem to know so much about how the latest HVAC systems work.

and i bet you have 0 clue what being "green" or "ungreen" even means.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:45 AM   #34
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Not my cup of tea. I think this look is starting to look dated. Nothing ground breaking or anything else that would draw me in.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:46 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thataboy View Post
+1

I don't think some of these negative commenters really "get" NYC or the Lincoln Center area. As big and noticeable as it is, it still kind of "fits in."
85% of the comments in this thread have been pointless, baseless, and incorrect. They must not know: engineering, NYC real estate/foot-track figures, and design concepts.

Examples:
oh..its so big with just tables and products...lame
wow...its bright...must be ungreen...
so much damn air in that box...must be a **** to heat and cool...


ARGH.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:49 AM   #36
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there goes all those green awards on the new laptops eh...

what are they thinking?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:51 AM   #37
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It takes an hour to get to Chermside by bus from UQ (weekends, at least), so I guess I won't be going. :P

For those of you Brisbanites, they're gonna give away 1000 Apple t-shirts on the opening day (Saturday). Don't get too excited coz a Melbourner told me a while ago the t-shirts they got in the Melb Apple store was all XL so it was barely usable to many ppl. I'll try giving them a call on Friday or Saturday morning to see how the t-shirt looks like and if they have a smaller size, if the trip is worth it
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:52 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by iOrlando View Post
85% of the comments in this thread have been pointless, baseless, and incorrect. They must not know: engineering, NYC real estate/foot-track figures, and design concepts.

ARGH.
Actually I can't give a rat's arse about engineering, NYC real estate/foot-track figures.
As a design concept, I remain unconvinced. Judging from what I have seen by the pictures. Call me shallow if you will, but I actually do have some idea.
So it's a big stage… theatre? OK. But you'll have to agree a huge empty store dressed up as some kind of minimalist music hall is bound to be controversial.

And oh, my gosh, this is just IMHO. Or do only the opinions of those who shout others down count?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:53 AM   #39
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The space is heated via 2 dozen MacBook Pro's
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:54 AM   #40
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I would love to see MicroSoft try to copy this store.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:57 AM   #41
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The space is heated via 2 dozen MacBook Pro's
You, sir, win one internet
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 09:59 AM   #42
arqsagi
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lots space

sure it looks to much space unuse but this could be for two reasons, having this much air space will help to keep it cool down on were the computers are, and 2 maybe apple doesnt wanted to add columns to support a mezzanine.
what apple needs is a big projector or BIG lcd screen to hand on the back wall showing some videos that will grab anyone attention
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:05 AM   #43
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While certainly impressive, I find Apple's big stores to be sterile. Like a hospital, or like a scene from Soylent Green. Certainly not welcoming - cold. I get a picture of hundreds of robots filing obediently in the front door ......
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:07 AM   #44
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A lot of guys have mentioned about the heating/cooling costs...

I think that if they had designed the building properly, then it should be alright... heating is a bit of a problem since all that hot air rises to the top and you need to constantly supply heat from the bottom. One solution is to circulate the interior air, rather than constantly reheating the bottom, colder air. Three corners of wall (as oppose to fully glass) would lessen the heat loss effect too. There are many other solutions to keep the costs down as well. But yeah of course it still wouldn't beat a standard one-storey building.

You might think that the computers inside would contribute to the heating, but actually the environment is considered a large enough heat sink so the effect is negligible :P Oh well, too much engineering studying.

The large surface area of glass gives plenty of light inside, though I hope they have actually tested that if the sun constantly heats up the screens of iMacs, the screen would actually turn black (like burnt). It has happened to my iMac once and the screen was super hot, luckily it turned back to normal.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:08 AM   #45
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:08 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by jfreak623 View Post
WAAAYYY to big for whats inside. Looks silly. Not a fan of this one apple...not to mention wasted energy heating this place up.
As beautiful as that store is and in no way could it possibly be a bad thing for the customer, I had a feeling someone would rate this a negative.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:08 AM   #47
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For a company that's pushing "Being Green," all that space is a waste. It actually appalls me at how ritzy & wasteful it looks.
I have to agree. That picture speaks to me of "excess" and "consumption" which may have been trendy 10 years ago, but today the world is focused on being eco-friendly and green.

I'll take people's word that it might not actually be wasteful, energy-wise, or that it fits in with the neighborhood. But those tall ceilings with nothing in them telegraph to me "they could have done something better with all that space". True or not, it's the perception that counts.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:13 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Evangelion View Post
Just because it has large windows does not have to mean that it's expensive to heat. In Finland we have triple and quad-plated windows, and they keep the house warm even if it's -30c outside. Then you can have heat-pumps that extract heat from the air (or ground), and those can provide you with cheap and green heating. Then you can also heat the floor, which would make the occupants feel warm (you feel warm if your feet are warm), even if the actual air-temperature was 1-3c lower than normally.
Nope, wrong. The R-Value or insulation value of even the most energy efficient glass is at most maybe R-5. The walls in a climate like NYC need to be at least R-19 for winter and summer. I don't care how many layers of glass are used, the sun is going to heat that box like an oven.

AC loads are way, WAY more then heat, especially in NYC with all the steam access. This is going to be one of the most heavily air conditioned retail spaces per square foot in the city, i guarantee it. If you need numbers, I can crunch them. Glass boxes need clever systems to balance them, and this is too minimalist to even deal with it. You'd never see a glass Apple store in Seattle or Sydney...
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:15 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by fastbite View Post
This is not a shop, it's a cathedral!
This is exactly the design philosophy behind this particular store. People complaining it having "just tables" don't really get it.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 10:19 AM   #50
miketcool
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Originally Posted by iSamurai View Post
A lot of guys have mentioned about the heating/cooling costs...

I think that if they had designed the building properly, then it should be alright... heating is a bit of a problem since all that hot air rises to the top and you need to constantly supply heat from the bottom. One solution is to circulate the interior air, rather than constantly reheating the bottom, colder air. Three corners of wall (as oppose to fully glass) would lessen the heat loss effect too.
Again, the AC loads for this building in summer will be tremendous. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were willing to take loses on it's two glass box Manhattan stores just for tourist display. Circulating air that cools easily along the glass envelop will only increase the energy required to heat. The solution here would be to shade the building in summer from the outside, and increase it's insulation in winter. Neither solution is being used by minimalist Apple. They're just another company riding the eco-bandwagon to drum up sales and make their own rules.
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