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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:20 AM   #51
batchtaster
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Originally Posted by Parky View Post
Heating and cooling will be significantly more than a normal store.
And lights will be required much of the time, in fact I bet they have them on all the time regardless. It is a waste of space and very ungreen
Spoken as someone without any actual idea or knowledge how they actually intend to light, heat and cool the place. For all you know, they have solar panels or wind turbines hidden on top and the whole damn thing will be largely self-sufficient. All we know is what we see here. And that's bugger all.

Facts. How about we base stuff on facts instead?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:21 AM   #52
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I bet that thing costs a small fortune on a daily basis to heat and cool.

exactly...considering how eco apple is trying portraying its image.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:23 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by notjustjay View Post
I have to agree. That picture speaks to me of "excess" and "consumption" which may have been trendy 10 years ago, but today the world is focused on being eco-friendly and green.

I'll take people's word that it might not actually be wasteful, energy-wise, or that it fits in with the neighborhood. But those tall ceilings with nothing in them telegraph to me "they could have done something better with all that space". True or not, it's the perception that counts.
Apple does not care about the environment or people for that matter. This is a perfect example of it.

Maybe they got this "design idea" from this place.

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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:25 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Mudbug View Post
I bet that thing costs a small fortune on a daily basis to heat and cool.
I bet a small fortune that they'll make a larger daily fortune to turn a profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iekozz View Post
I like most Apple stores, but I think this one looks not right. It's nice on the outside, but the inside is just some tables with Apple products laid nicely.
This store is about the architecture not the products. You just want an iPod, just order online. You want a shopping experience, come here!

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Originally Posted by phatcat View Post
For a company that's pushing "Being Green," all that space is a waste. It actually appalls me at how ritzy & wasteful it looks.
You don't think Apple considered being Green before building this -- you have no idea how they are heating and cooling this structure -- One thing is for certain... energy for Lighting the space for a great part of the day will be very, very minimal due to the ceiling being made of glass. Perhaps, with the energy saved there, it balances out the other -- Also, heat rises -- that's got to help.

I guarantee you this --> Apple will get so much crap about the non-Green-ness of this store that they will publish information and hard evidence to just what was done for this store to help with cost of heating/cooling.

--

Don't you know OLLIES is one happy restaurant?! I certainly would think so!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:27 AM   #55
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Gorgeous!

I actually think it's beautiful. I think the flagship stores really get at what the smaller mall stores fail at doing (despite however successful they might be). It looks like a museum or art gallery, but the art is useable and accessible to many more people. It's like a Mac palace and I'm surprised at the number of negative comments. This thing is sexy.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:28 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by batchtaster View Post
Spoken as someone without any actual idea or knowledge how they actually intend to light, heat and cool the place. For all you know, they have solar panels or wind turbines hidden on top and the whole damn thing will be largely self-sufficient. All we know is what we see here. And that's bugger all.

Facts. How about we base stuff on facts instead?
I can tell you, by looking at this building, without knowing any of the actual HVAC systems involved, as an architect; this is a tremendous challenge. Seeing as how their are NO physical systems employed to deal with heat loss and heat gain, besides heavy structural glass likely made in China, I can tell you this is a very, very inefficient building.

It wouldn't matter if they had a megawatt solar array, or a wind farm to offset energy costs. THE IDEA IS TO BE ENERGY EFFICIENT. This isn't about making a bastardized space that requires the use of a massive HVAC system that employs solar or wind power. It is about making a building as efficient as possible in the first place. Apple could very easily have installed a second skin with louvers that shade and insulate while maintaining this sense of transparency to pedestrians. The message here is, "we can do whatever we want, because we are powerful and we are Apple."
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:28 AM   #57
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Funny how some people here think they know Apple business better than Apple does. For the people who think that it will take an enormous amount of energy to heat and cool the place, get the facts first before you just assume. Surely Apple has worked this out and the city has approved it.

Also the size model is excellent for business. When people are on the freeway or even at far distances they will see the Apple store and know it's there which will draw customers.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:31 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by mobi View Post
The space is heated via 2 dozen MacBook Pro's
LOL... well played!

My first thought: "So where are the quarters for the resident window-washers?"
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:31 AM   #59
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I get a picture of hundreds of robots filing obediently in the front door ......
Are you talking about the Apple fanboys?
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:32 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by JGowan View Post
I guarantee you this --> Apple will get so much crap about the non-Green-ness of this store that they will publish information and hard evidence to just what was done for this store to help with cost of heating/cooling.
I promise that information will include trees planted and forests donated to offset carbon costs. Unless the USGBC installs a plaque, this project is grossly inefficient and hypocritical toward Apple's stance on the environment.

Apple said the US Chamber of Commerce wasn't doing more, and yet they build like this. If Apple is going to suddenly come out of their neutrality they had better follow their mantra to a "T".
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:35 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by miketcool View Post
The message here is, "we can do whatever we want, because we are powerful and we are Apple."
You had credibility right up until there, by pretending to represent knowledge of Apple's intentions, or speaking on their behalf. My original point still stands. None of you know the how, why or what of this place. Simply because Apple has not said anything. Until they do, you know nothing.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:39 AM   #62
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To the people complaining about the inefficiency of heating this building:

You obviously have no idea what a solarium is and you don't realize that heating problems are about leaks and air flow.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:39 AM   #63
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Wow!!

It's...BEAUTIFUL!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:40 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by galleyhannon View Post
To the people complaining about the inefficiency of heating this building:

You obviously have no idea what a solarium is and you don't realize that heating problems are about leaks and air flow.
Damn, dropping knowledge. I learned something new today.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:41 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by batchtaster View Post
You had credibility right up until there, by pretending to represent knowledge of Apple's intentions. My original point still stands. None of you know the how, why or what of this place. Simply because Apple has not said anything. Until they do, you know nothing.
From my studies in Architectural Theory and analysis of Architectural Intent; I can make an observation that this is a monumental building in that it expresses height, lacks human scale, is simplistic in form, and contains heavy materiality. Whether this is what Apple, the client, really asked of the designers is moot. I can tell you what this building is expressing, using other architectural precedents, and it expresses power, permanence, and dominance while appearing open, transparent and inviting. The message is strong, and unless you have a background in architecture, you cannot speak for those of us who do.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:41 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by batchtaster View Post
Spoken as someone without any actual idea or knowledge how they actually intend to light, heat and cool the place. For all you know, they have solar panels or wind turbines hidden on top and the whole damn thing will be largely self-sufficient. All we know is what we see here. And that's bugger all.

Facts. How about we base stuff on facts instead?
Fact: No solar or wind turbines hidden on top.

Thumb resize.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:42 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by notjustjay View Post
I have to agree. That picture speaks to me of "excess" and "consumption" which may have been trendy 10 years ago, but today the world is focused on being eco-friendly and green.

I'll take people's word that it might not actually be wasteful, energy-wise, or that it fits in with the neighborhood. But those tall ceilings with nothing in them telegraph to me "they could have done something better with all that space". True or not, it's the perception that counts.
+1. This store is a big brand statement of excess, consumption and is totally irrelevant to today world. It's beautiful, and maybe not wasteful, but already old.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:44 AM   #68
batchtaster
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Fact: No solar or wind turbines hidden on top.
And that photo was taken when?

BTW, that wasn't even my point; they were just illustrative examples. My point is that the people wailing and gnashing their teeth are flitting from conclusion to conclusion like insane leprechauns. Which I suppose is not unlike every other rumor that goes around, but is frankly quite boring. So, I will now paste in my favorite online quote:

"Online Fandom Rule #1: If a situation is ever unclear, assume whatever it would take to drive you into a blind rage."
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:48 AM   #69
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Looks great, doesn't it

The sheer aspect of it's centralized urban location defines the space's "green-ness". The hanging facade should daylight the overall space while the oled's highlight the products. It's seems infantile to comment on the heating and cooling when the systems are undisclosed. Apple did a great creating "genius loci" out of a commerical retail. That's sustainability. Can't wait to walk in!

Last edited by Van man Jerry; Nov 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:52 AM   #70
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Ugh. Why do they need to create such a spectacle? A monstrosity? It doesn't fit in with the neighborhood and certainly isn't green.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Consultant View Post
LOL. Apple Stores do much better than you think, even surpassing Tiffany in terms of sales per area.
Quite. I'm certain I read the Apple Store on Regent Street (London, UK) brings in more money per square foot than Harrods!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:54 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Van man Jerry View Post
The sheer aspect of it's centralized urban location defines the space's "green-ness". The hanging facade should daylight the overall space while the oled's highlight the products. It's seems infantile to comment on the heating and cooling when the systems are undisclosed. Apple did a great creating genius loci out of a commerical rental. That's sustainability. Can't wait to walk in!
Actually, that hits home exactly the key point of the issue. A professional can tell you this is inefficient. If they general public looks at this project and doesn't get the sense this is eco-friendly IF it is eco-friendly, then it has failed. I know this building is inefficient, the public doesn't "know" but if they think it isn't, Apple has dropped the ball on their green message.
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:54 AM   #73
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I can't wait to head in there for a beer...
Ollies I mean - next door, great place!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:54 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batchtaster View Post
And that photo was taken when?
1 November 2009

Thumb resize.

By the way, the street runs north-south, the right side of the store is north - so it gets good sun exposure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by batchtaster View Post
"Online Fandom Rule #1: If a situation is ever unclear, assume whatever it would take to drive you into a blind rage."
Good one!
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Old Nov 12, 2009, 11:54 AM   #75
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Two immediate impulses:
1. "It's so sterile!" - from that very specific The Simpsons episode.

2. It's another huge glass front consume cathedral from the Holy Church Of Apple with an IKEAn interior design.

The more I think about it, the less comfortable I am with having spent so much money on the products of this company that's more like a sect than a producer of technology.
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