Store shoplifting policy - Menards incident in the news...

mkrishnan · Nov 14, 2009

This randomly showed up on Google News...

http://consumerist.com/5400831/never-follow-a-security-guard-into-the-back-of-the-store

Here's some advice for you, the regular customer who doesn't shoplift: never go into the back of a store with a security guard, store manager, rent-a-cop, etc. Never. Someone posted the following story in the Janesville, Wisconsin CraigsList over the weekend. Because the poster cooperated in good faith with the security personnel at her local Menards home store, she had to pay $150 to avoid having the police called on her.

Anyone else have weird experiences like this? Once when I was in high school still, I went to Meijer's (a supermarket) and bought a watch band, IIRC, and some crazy person who worked there chased me out into the parking lot and demanded to see my receipt. It was jarring but otherwise I showed him my receipt, chewed him out a bit, and that was the end of it. Sounds a lot less scary than this....

Consultant · Nov 14, 2009

Um, story posted on craigslist?
MOST REPUTABLE NEWS SOURCE EVER. =p

Here is an advice for them, don't listen to everything on the internet...

Koodauw · Nov 14, 2009

Well you know there is always 3 sides to each story...... I don't particularly believe this set of events.

mkrishnan · Nov 14, 2009

It does sound questionable, although I've also heard of things like it... we'll see if it gets carried.

savoirfaire · Nov 14, 2009

mkrishnan said:
This randomly showed up on Google News...

http://consumerist.com/5400831/never-follow-a-security-guard-into-the-back-of-the-store

Anyone else have weird experiences like this? Once when I was in high school still, I went to Meijer's (a supermarket) and bought a watch band, IIRC, and some crazy person who worked there chased me out into the parking lot and demanded to see my receipt. It was jarring but otherwise I showed him my receipt, chewed him out a bit, and that was the end of it. Sounds a lot less scary than this....

It does sound weird. I don't know whether the part about the guy who grabbed her cart and went halfway down the aisle with it was relevant to the story at all.

I remember when I was in college, I frequented Tower Records. One time as I was leaving, one of the employees came and demanded to see my bag. I hadn't stolen anything, so I let her, but her accusatory attitude really put me off.

question fear · Nov 14, 2009

There's something very weird about that story.

I've worked in retail mgmt and sat through several loss prevention trainings, and I can't imagine any company doing that.

1) You cannot be held against your will, by a rent-a-cop or anyone else. The best a store can do is ask you to please wait while the police arrive.

2) Its wildly unethical and illegal to extort $150 out of someone. The police would investigate prior to any shoplifting charges.

I call BS on the whole thing.

skottichan · Nov 15, 2009

question fear said:
There's something very weird about that story.

I've worked in retail mgmt and sat through several loss prevention trainings, and I can't imagine any company doing that.

1) You cannot be held against your will, by a rent-a-cop or anyone else. The best a store can do is ask you to please wait while the police arrive.

2) Its wildly unethical and illegal to extort $150 out of someone. The police would investigate prior to any shoplifting charges.

I call BS on the whole thing.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I know it's been a while since I've worked retail (VS, MediaPlay, Best Buy), but there were a lot of rules that security had to follow when confronting a potential shoplifter.

The extortion thing is something that really red flagged the whole story for me.

question fear · Nov 15, 2009

skottichan said:
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I know it's been a while since I've worked retail (VS, MediaPlay, Best Buy), but there were a lot of rules that security had to follow when confronting a potential shoplifter.

The extortion thing is something that really red flagged the whole story for me.

Exactly.

Though once in a loss prevention training, our LP manager said, "We are no longer allowed to zip tie shoplifters." Which of course led to a 20 minute discussion about how in the bigger Borders stores, they WERE zip tying shoplifters, usually to a desk in the backroom until the police could arrive.

Apparently someone told them it was dangerous and probably illegal...poor LP manager was so sad about that.

Kamera RAWr · Nov 15, 2009

What are the general rules for Loss Prevention employees? I work at a southern California Macy's store and I saw a guy get ambushed by LP just outside the glass door as he left. He was then handcuffed and brought back into Macy's and they walked him (I assume) back to the LP office until the police arrived.

skottichan · Nov 15, 2009

Kamera RAWr said:
What are the general rules for Loss Prevention employees? I work at a southern California Macy's store and I saw a guy get ambushed by LP just outside the glass door as he left. He was then handcuffed and brought back into Macy's and they walked him (I assume) back to the LP office until the police arrived.

Sometimes larger store chains will actually have off duty cops and/or deputized security personnel, and they would have the training and legal standing to do things like that. Also, depends on the State/local laws when it comes to "Citizen's Arrest", some are more aggressive than others.

mkrishnan · Nov 16, 2009

This story in any event didn't seem to have been picked up by any more credible news source as of yesterday night....

ucfgrad93 · Nov 16, 2009

question fear said:
There's something very weird about that story.

I've worked in retail mgmt and sat through several loss prevention trainings, and I can't imagine any company doing that.

1) You cannot be held against your will, by a rent-a-cop or anyone else. The best a store can do is ask you to please wait while the police arrive.

2) Its wildly unethical and illegal to extort $150 out of someone. The police would investigate prior to any shoplifting charges.

I call BS on the whole thing.

Agreed, this thing stinks worse than a week old fish.

Antares · Nov 16, 2009

ucfgrad93 said:
Agreed, this thing stinks worse than a week old fish.

You never know. The story is perfectly reasonable. You would be surprised how many managers and LP personnel do things like this. Illegal? Yes. Against company policy? Yes. But it actually does happen.

It's easy enough to get away with. The shoplifter is likely not going to complain afterward. The shoplifter's whole point of paying was not to get into trouble in the first place...they're not going pay and then turn around and admit they shoplifted to police. This defeats the whole purpose of paying to get out of trouble. And even if they did complain to the cops or anyone else, there is no proof that bribery or extortion was involved.

I think all of you would be quite surprised with how often things like this actually happen. The amount of "activities" store employees engage in to extort, steal and scam customers, fellow employees and the company out of money. Not to mention, how often it happens. It's quite surprising. (I work for a large retail chain at corporate. I was privy to a lot of this information).

Steal from a thief. They're the best victims. A thief or criminal is less likely to go to the police since they would then have to admit that someone stole something from them which they had previously stolen from someone else.

Tellthetruth · Mar 16, 2014

This story is full of BS

This lady needs to get her facts checked!

Menards have display of actual drills on the shelf for people to pick up and handle. There is NO reason to open a box to check the weight.

I know that you were not told to pay $150 or the police would be called. That is a flat out lie and an excuse to try to cover what you did.

Menard Stores have a Civil Restitution policy and so do most other retail stores. Each retail store can have a different way of doing things. It is 100% legal.

I'm guessing that the security guard told you about the Civil Restitution and you refused to sign it. A civil restitution is just like a contract. You were most likely given the choice to handle the situation with just a civil restitution and not involve the police. I'm sure you said that you refuse to sign the paper. So what that says is that you don't want to handle the situation between you and the store. The reason the police are called is because now there will be a court date and it will be on record. You are charged in court and then Menards can go after you for civil damages.... Hence...Restitution.

I also suspect that since this story did not go any farther; you did not contact Menards Corporate security. If it was a simple act of a cashier missing an item; the whole thing would have been reversed. OR if you did go to their corporate security; they were able to watch security video and see enough to show you actively deceived the store and they enforced the Civil Restitution.

Tell the Truth. Your story is full of BS.

yg17 · Mar 16, 2014

Tellthetruth said:
This lady needs to get her facts checked!

Menards have display of actual drills on the shelf for people to pick up and handle. There is NO reason to open a box to check the weight.

I know that you were not told to pay $150 or the police would be called. That is a flat out lie and an excuse to try to cover what you did.

Menard Stores have a Civil Restitution policy and so do most other retail stores. Each retail store can have a different way of doing things. It is 100% legal.

I'm guessing that the security guard told you about the Civil Restitution and you refused to sign it. A civil restitution is just like a contract. You were most likely given the choice to handle the situation with just a civil restitution and not involve the police. I'm sure you said that you refuse to sign the paper. So what that says is that you don't want to handle the situation between you and the store. The reason the police are called is because now there will be a court date and it will be on record. You are charged in court and then Menards can go after you for civil damages.... Hence...Restitution.

I also suspect that since this story did not go any farther; you did not contact Menards Corporate security. If it was a simple act of a cashier missing an item; the whole thing would have been reversed. OR if you did go to their corporate security; they were able to watch security video and see enough to show you actively deceived the store and they enforced the Civil Restitution.

Tell the Truth. Your story is full of BS.

So Menards actually pays people to bump 4 and a half year old threads on Internet forums and try to make the company look good? How do I get that job?

Tellthetruth · Mar 16, 2014

No. Don't work for Menards. Just a little sick of seeing posts from people to commit theft and try to make businesses look like the bad guy. People like that make me have to pay more in stores because the stores make that money back with higher prices.

yg17 · Mar 16, 2014

Tellthetruth said:
No. Don't work for Menards. Just a little sick of seeing posts from people to commit theft and try to make businesses look like the bad guy. People like that make me have to pay more in stores because the stores make that money back with higher prices.

So just how did you find this 4 year old thread then?

You registered today just to bump this thread and defend Menards, so forgive me if I don't believe you when you say you do not work for them.

Tellthetruth · Mar 16, 2014

I actually did not pay attn to the date. I was online looking up a story about Menards, Home Depot and Lowes. This link was one that came up and I read it. I am more of a Home Depot kind of person anyways.

Time to get outside and enjoy some of this sun. Have a great weekend.

Shrink · Mar 16, 2014

yg17 said:
So just how did you find this 4 year old thread then?

You registered today just to bump this thread and defend Menards, so forgive me if I don't believe you when you say you do not work for them.

Oh, ye of little faith!

Here is a seeker of Truth...a voice in the wilderness...one who brings light into the darkness...

...and you question motives!

OK...OK...my BS meter is pegged, too.

snberk103 · Mar 17, 2014

Tellthetruth said:
This lady needs to get her facts checked!
.....

I'll bet we may have heard the last of Tellthetruth....

alent1234 · Mar 17, 2014

Tellthetruth said:
No. Don't work for Menards. Just a little sick of seeing posts from people to commit theft and try to make businesses look like the bad guy. People like that make me have to pay more in stores because the stores make that money back with higher prices.

if this was me, i would tell them to call the cops
i've known real shoplifters who stole a lot of things many times. having a $300 receipt of stuff you just bought and a pack of bits that wasn't paid for would get thrown out of court

LIVEFRMNYC · Mar 17, 2014

This story is true cause I was the crazy person who grabbed the shopping cart.

turtle777 · Mar 22, 2014

alent1234 said:
if this was me, i would tell them to call the cops
i've known real shoplifters who stole a lot of things many times. having a $300 receipt of stuff you just bought and a pack of bits that wasn't paid for would get thrown out of court

This.

Plus, imagine the judge's reaction when you tell him you were offered to pay $150 to "let it go".

-t

moonman239 · Mar 24, 2014

question fear said:
There's something very weird about that story.

I've worked in retail mgmt and sat through several loss prevention trainings, and I can't imagine any company doing that.

1) You cannot be held against your will, by a rent-a-cop or anyone else. The best a store can do is ask you to please wait while the police arrive.

2) Its wildly unethical and illegal to extort $150 out of someone. The police would investigate prior to any shoplifting charges.

I call BS on the whole thing.

Allow me to correct #1 to some extent.

In California, a "private person" can arrest someone if he or she saw a "public offense" being committed, or has reason to believe that a felony was committed. Edit: Theft is a public offense.

California Penal Code section 837 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?file=833-851.90&group=00001-01000&section=pen):

837. A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

rhett7660 · Mar 25, 2014

question fear said:
There's something very weird about that story.

I've worked in retail mgmt and sat through several loss prevention trainings, and I can't imagine any company doing that.

1) You cannot be held against your will, by a rent-a-cop or anyone else. The best a store can do is ask you to please wait while the police arrive.

2) Its wildly unethical and illegal to extort $150 out of someone. The police would investigate prior to any shoplifting charges.

I call BS on the whole thing.

Citizens arrest.....

In some jurisdictions of the United States, the courts recognize a common law shopkeeper's privilege, under which a shopkeeper is allowed to detain a suspected shoplifter on store property for a reasonable period of time, so long as the shopkeeper has cause to believe that the person detained in fact committed, or attempted to commit, theft of store property. The purpose of this detention is to recover the property and make an arrest if the merchant desires.

Store shoplifting policy - Menards incident in the news...

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