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Old Nov 27, 2009, 04:42 PM   #1
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Why Apple is a joke in the business world




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Link: Why Apple is a joke in the business world
Description:: Its not that Apple doesn't "know how to deal with enterprise", its more like Apple is doing it on Apple's terms ie through the user rather than through the IT dept and that is what IT depts aren't used to.

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Old Nov 27, 2009, 05:22 PM   #2
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Fud

There's some pretty bad fud in there, particularly the line saying that "Apple would be highly resistant to the emerging HTML 5 standard, which might make it possible to deliver complicated applications via the iPhone browser without enduring Apple's infamous application approval process."

This is already possible on the iPhone. Where's Microsoft's HTML 5 support?
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 05:56 PM   #3
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It's pure FUD. For example, claiming that Apple will resist HTML 5 just shows how little Jones knows about what's actually going on, and that he doesn't care about the truth, which is that Apple is one of the major proponents of HTML 5. In fact, David Hyatt, an Apple employee, is one of the editors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5

http://www.geektechnica.com/2009/10/...mplementation/
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 06:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Chobit View Post
There's some pretty bad fud in there, particularly the line saying that "Apple would be highly resistant to the emerging HTML 5 standard, which might make it possible to deliver complicated applications via the iPhone browser without enduring Apple's infamous application approval process."

This is already possible on the iPhone. Where's Microsoft's HTML 5 support?
The comments section of the original article is actually better than the article itself, well worth a read.

http://apcmag.com/why-apple-is-a-jok...ness-world.htm

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Old Nov 27, 2009, 06:44 PM   #5
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bitter

I think someone is just bitter because santa clause gave him a lump of coal last year instead of the macbook pro he asked for
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 06:59 PM   #6
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Apple IS a joke to the business world because pretty, shiny things do not necessarily equate to high quality, superior functioning things and real tech people don't get all teary-eyed over cosmetics. They also want to control the computer, not have Apple tell them how they can or can't run their own hardware. Sure Macs are nice for some things but get pretty ugly for real business. Oh, and I've owned more Macs than you.
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 07:58 PM   #7
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Apple IS a joke to the business world because pretty, shiny things do not necessarily equate to high quality, superior functioning things and real tech people don't get all teary-eyed over cosmetics. ...
If you actually knew any technical people, then you would not have said any of this.
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 08:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Black Belt View Post
Apple IS a joke to the business world because pretty, shiny things do not necessarily equate to high quality, superior functioning things and real tech people don't get all teary-eyed over cosmetics. They also want to control the computer, not have Apple tell them how they can or can't run their own hardware. Sure Macs are nice for some things but get pretty ugly for real business. Oh, and I've owned more Macs than you.
No, you haven't.

The reality here is that the enterprise is the place where computer makers go to die. Just ask Wang, DEC, Compaq, IBM, and several others that I can no longer remember, all soon to be joined by Dell. High volume and low margins is a recipe for disaster, and that's just what the enterprise requires. As long as it does, Apple will continue to laugh all the way to the bank as it avoids the trap that we call the enterprise.
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Old Nov 27, 2009, 08:48 PM   #9
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Fud. Love the word. Yah I agree... Apple is worth BILLIONS.
I don't get how they are the joke of the "business world".
If they are worth that much, provide good quality computers that
run both OSX and Windows, then they are not a joke in my book.
The machines are slightly more expensive, but you see all those
"good" stories about Apple on here really taking care of people.
They have been good to my family in any case.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 02:53 AM   #10
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Apple sell products with a high margin that makes them hugely profitable. They sell much smaller numbers than PC manufacturers yet they have an almost equal share of the total revenue from desktop sales. They also have huge cash reserves. No business serious about making profits would do anything but admire apples business model. As for the HTML 5 nonsense, I agree with every other post...
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 09:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by MisterMe View Post
If you actually knew any technical people, then you would not have said any of this.
-- I -- am a technical person, my job is network administration in global satellite communications and I put my signature under what the other poster has said.

Except for maybe -- MAYBE -- the HTML 5 bit, I don't see -any- FUD in the discussion of the original article. Macs are niche tools and they only have little space in an enterprise environment - and that space usually is in the graphics/marketing department where they run Adobe Creative Suite. I don't see anybody running business software on a Mac - that's probably because it doesn't exist.

I don't see anybody using OS X servers, but I see a lot of Windows, Linux and Unix servers in my daily job.

I also don't see any Macs in the engineering or network operations departments. Could be because there is no software for the Macs there either.

Of course, the software thing can easily be changed by not using OS X on the Apple hardware. But then again, please tell me what the purpose of expensive designer hardware is when I can get much more powerful desktop PCs for a fraction of the cost of the Apple hardware?

Also, please tell me why I should buy a Mac when I can get four-hour-on-site-service from Dell and HP, but I cannot get that kind of support from Apple?

The very moment you begin running mission critical systems, the last thing you want is a ridiculous thing like a "genius bar" where you have to wait a couple of weeks to get an appointment. Dell gives me a phone number where I am GUARANTEED to talk to a competent engineer within THREE MINUTES. And they send me replacement systems and technicians to my server room within four hours when I buy that service. I need to keep a global network running, so for me -- THIS -- is what makes a product enterprise ready. Not some fancy design or face recognition in iPhoto or toy applications like iChat or PhotoBooth. Or that fancy animated excuse for a backup program called Time Machine. Time Machine is one of those typical Apple consumer products - try backing up some serious network infrastructure with it. Even Microsoft's good old NTBackup from 1996 was a more powerful backup solution than Apple's nice looking Time Machine is.

But you folks should stop fooling yourself: Apple isn't the least interested in the enterprise market. They know that they have lost that segment decades ago when the Apple II lost against the IBM PC clones. Thus their entire product line and service structure is now exclusively aimed at the consumer market and they are doing very well there. They still occasionally release some prestige "professional" products ("prosumer" would be the correct label, actually) like the Mac Pro and Final Cut Studio, but that is NOT where they make their money (anymore).

Apple is all about iPods, iPhones, iTunes and the low end MacBooks these days - where the MacBooks are mostly used as Internet surfboards and iPod backends.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 10:13 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
Excellent post snipped
I agree with you. Well written.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 10:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
Also, please tell me why I should buy a Mac when I can get four-hour-on-site-service from Dell and HP, but I cannot get that kind of support from Apple?
The fact that you're missing — probably because you just don't want to face the truth of it — is that the joke here is not Apple, but the enterprise. It simply is a bad business decision to cater to the enterprise, and that is demonstrated by the legions of PC makers that struggle to make a few percentage points in gross profit. The question is not why you should buy a Mac. It's why should Apple bother to cater to your whims? You need to recognize that you simply don't matter because you aren't willing to pay a fair price for the things you want. In fact, buying crappy solutions that don't work well has been the IT business model for a long time. It creates job security, or at least it has in the past. Eventually, IT may understand that its poor reputation is because of this policy. Until that happens, Apple and Mac users will continue to see the enterprise as the joke that it is.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 10:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winni View Post
The very moment you begin running mission critical systems, the last thing you want is a ridiculous thing like a "genius bar" where you have to wait a couple of weeks to get an appointment. Dell gives me a phone number where I am GUARANTEED to talk to a competent engineer within THREE MINUTES. And they send me replacement systems and technicians to my server room within four hours when I buy that service.
For their xserve, they offer a similar service. The SLA isn't exactly the same as the Dell "3-minute phone response" you quoted, but this isn't the same as a Genius Bar trip either.
http://www.apple.com/support/products/premium.html

Quote:
Priority access to Apple experts

* Up to three years of technical support using advanced remote management and monitoring tools(2)
* Direct, 24/7 access by phone and email(3) to Apple’s dedicated Server Technical Support team
* 30-minute response on email and telephone calls

Onsite hardware repairs

* Up to three years of onsite service by Appleauthorized technicians(2)
* Global repair coverage for Xserve
* Onsite response within four hours during business hours(4)
* Next-day onsite response when you contact Apple after business hours(4)
* Optional AppleCare Service Parts Kits for rapid replacement of key hardware component
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 01:00 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
.... I don't see anybody running business software on a Mac - that's probably because it doesn't exist....
What?

MS Office and FileMaker Pro aren't used in the business world?
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 01:40 PM   #16
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What?

MS Office and FileMaker Pro aren't used in the business world?

... and MySQL, PHP, C, C++, Unix, email, Skype and other instant messaging services, video editing, Apache web server, etc...

The list goes on and on, but IT types like Winni aren't interested in any of those. They're only interested in cherry picking facts that help them justify their decision to only support Windows. It's just another reason the enterprise is the real joke here.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 01:46 PM   #17
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They also want to control the computer, not have Apple tell them how they can or can't run their own hardware
And by "they" you mean IT departments?
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 01:57 PM   #18
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The fact that you're missing — probably because you just don't want to face the truth of it — is that the joke here is not Apple, but the enterprise. It simply is a bad business decision to cater to the enterprise, and that is demonstrated by the legions of PC makers that struggle to make a few percentage points in gross profit. The question is not why you should buy a Mac. It's why should Apple bother to cater to your whims? You need to recognize that you simply don't matter because you aren't willing to pay a fair price for the things you want. In fact, buying crappy solutions that don't work well has been the IT business model for a long time. It creates job security, or at least it has in the past. Eventually, IT may understand that its poor reputation is because of this policy. Until that happens, Apple and Mac users will continue to see the enterprise as the joke that it is.
Spot on post. Extremely well said sir
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 02:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Winni View Post
They still occasionally release some prestige "professional" products ("prosumer" would be the correct label, actually) like the Mac Pro and Final Cut Studio, but that is NOT where they make their money (anymore).
I can kind of see your point in the rest that you said but this is just plain rubbish.

Prosumer? Since when has a product that has been used to make numerous hollywood films been considered prosumer?

Logic Studio is also very much NOT a prosumer application. It is used pretty widely in the professional audio world. Maybe not as much as Pro Tools HD but that, like many other areas Apple are involved in, is slowly changing.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 02:30 PM   #20
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Apple is indeed a joke to the business world because their server offerings are of "low end" specs, and their desktop / laptop machines all cost quite a bit more than what big business is willing to pay.

Businesses look at cost per seat. The hardware is only one factor of course, but when they can get a business dell pc for $299 or a laptop for $499 they aren't even going to consider Apple's products.

The only way for Apple to get into big business is to have a "killer app" that requires Mac OS. That already exists today in the audio / video editing industry where Mac's are the defacto standard, as well as in desktop publishing. Also for travelling IT consultants who require a UNIX laptop (and not Linux), a Macbook Pro is a whole lot cheaper than the Solaris portables from Tadpole.

But for your average corporate employee, sitting at a desk schlepping around email and word documents, the corporation simply isn't willing to pay for the higher priced Apple equipment.

On the other hand, there is a huge amount of value in the stability and reliability of OSX, coupled with it's better security and resilience to viruses. But since no one has quantified these values yet, corporate IT has no argument.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 02:50 PM   #21
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Apple is indeed a joke to the business world because their server offerings are of "low end" specs, and their desktop / laptop machines all cost quite a bit more than what big business is willing to pay.
So the joke that is the enterprise thinks that Apple is a joke. Why should Apple care?

Until the enterprise is more concerned with total quality than the cost of the box, Apple will continue to laugh at them. What's more, companies that cater to the enterprise will continue to have no way to differentiate themselves (there's no real difference between Dell, Gateway, Acer, HP, etc.) and continue to struggle to make razor thin profits with no room for errors. Heck, the average sales tax on a Windows PC is more than the profit!
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 03:24 PM   #22
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Yeah right. Delusional is the word here if you think "Enterprise" is a bad word. HP for example produces a stellar computer and does just fine not raping its customers. The size of Apple pales in comparison to other computer companies. And I can't wait for the day when Apple is forced to comply with the laws everyone else is. It is a crime that I can't plug in my iPod into something other than iTunes or vice versa.

Another example of why Apple is a joke. I am trying to change the harddrive in my Macbook. F*ng Apple uses TORX screws to mount the harddrive cover unlike everyone else who uses a standard screw. What F*ng morons.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 03:37 PM   #23
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Yeah right. Delusional is the word here. HP for example produces a stellar computer and does just fine not raping its customers.
Yes, if you think HP makes a stellar computer then you are delusional. The computer is more than the hardware, and there is nothing about HP software that is stellar. Just look at their crappy printer drivers!

You can't claim that HP doesn't rape its customers without acknowledging that they've shipped good jobs to low wage countries where the environment and child labor are not respected. Sure, Apple has had to do some of that too, but it's companies like HP and IBM that led the way.

As for torque screws, they're there for a reason. If you know what you're doing, they're not a problem. If you don't, then you're going to void the warranty if you mess with them.

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It is a crime that I can't plug in my iPod into something other than iTunes or vice versa.
The more I read this, the more convinced I am that you are completely clueless. You can't get it through your skull that iTunes is NOT a product. It is one component of a highly integrated product, which has no equal in the rest of the computer industry. You want to force Apple to be the R&D department for PC companies. It's understandable that those companies would want that too, because with their tiny profit margins they can't afford to do their own research. The problem is that there would be no benefit to Apple.

Last edited by annk; Dec 10, 2009 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Consecutive posts
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 03:47 PM   #24
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Sorry I have a headache this morning, but where is the "joke"? Yes they are
trumped in the server solution market, of course, but how are they a joke in
the business world when they do "very well" as a personal or "prosumer"
solution?

I may just being thickheaded today, but i can't see the "joke" below?
Seems to me they know what they are doing at the moment.
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Old Nov 28, 2009, 03:50 PM   #25
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Yep, the joke is... with a bunch of computer execs at the bar.

Did you hear about Apple, they decided to buck the trend on Wallstreet and buy revenue growth with expensive high margin product growth instead of using loss leaders to buy a temporary market share surge.

Then all the execs have a hollow laugh, and start crying.
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