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Old Aug 4, 2004, 03:44 AM   #1
hkriffraff
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How much free space should a new iPod have?

I just got my 20GB 4G iPod and found that it has only about 18.5GB free. I know about the weirdness of drive specifications and system software, but still, 1.5GB seems like quite a bit space... is this normal?
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Old Aug 4, 2004, 03:56 AM   #2
Brize
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Yeah, that would be normal. The formatted capacity of my 40GB iPod is 37.23GB.

Check out this thread for more info:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=9770

Last edited by Brize; Aug 4, 2004 at 04:05 AM.
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Old Aug 4, 2004, 04:12 AM   #3
hkriffraff
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So how does Apple arrive at the 5000 songs estimate for a 20GB player? I read somewhere that it was based on a 4mb/song assumption?
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Old Aug 4, 2004, 04:42 AM   #4
Brize
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1000 songs per 4GB is only a rough guide. Obviously, lots of 45-minute Jazz improvisations in your iTunes library is going to skew that somewhat.

If the formatted capacity per 4GB is 3.7GB, the 1000 song figure is based on an average of 3.7MB per track, which is roughly equivalent to a track of just under four minutes encoded at 128Kbps in AAC format. I imagine that's a pretty reliable average for pop music.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 12:06 PM   #5
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You people are all acting like elitist jerks.

First off: I have been using computers since '87 and have been building my own since the mid '90s, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space. Why this is, I don't know; I find it the most asinine thing ever that a "20GB" disk would decrease to 18.5GB.

What you people aren't grasping is that Apple has come on the market with a product designated as an mp3 player. Just because this mp3 player utilizes a hard disk rather than RAM memory like the first (and still common) mp3 players, does not and should not give Apple the right to use the "fake gigabyte" advertising method. The public has come to expect a 128mb mp3 player to be able to store 128mb of mp3s. This should be no different for a 20GB iPod. With my experience in computers, I still believed that my 4G iPod would hold a full 20GB of mp3s. To the schmucks that are ripping on those who choose to have a problem with this: Try getting a life. Not everyone knows as much as you do regarding computers. Oh, and while you're babbling about how these people should KNOW that a hard disk loses space to formatting, why don't you try explaining why it loses that space? After all, you should KNOW, since you're so awesome at computing that it's simple knowledge. Learn to be civil. It's no wonder so many of you don't have girlfriends.

One other thing: I have never seen a 20GB hard drive lose 1.5GB of space due to formatting. There's something else responsible for further space loss. My 80GB computer drive lost maybe 2GB to "formatting". And you'll never get me to believe that it's directory information or some kind of "operating system"... 1.5GB is enough to run a lot of versions of Windows on.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 12:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
First off: I have been using computers since '87 and have been building my own since the mid '90s, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space. Why this is, I don't know
Priceless!

And I think you are way over-reacting here. The advice offered was correct and I didn't sense any elitism in the answers posted. Until your post that is.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 12:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
You people are all acting like elitist jerks.

First off: I have been using computers since '87 and have been building my own since the mid '90s, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space. Why this is, I don't know; I find it the most asinine thing ever that a "20GB" disk would decrease to 18.5GB.

What you people aren't grasping is that Apple has come on the market with a product designated as an mp3 player. Just because this mp3 player utilizes a hard disk rather than RAM memory like the first (and still common) mp3 players, does not and should not give Apple the right to use the "fake gigabyte" advertising method. The public has come to expect a 128mb mp3 player to be able to store 128mb of mp3s. This should be no different for a 20GB iPod. With my experience in computers, I still believed that my 4G iPod would hold a full 20GB of mp3s. To the schmucks that are ripping on those who choose to have a problem with this: Try getting a life. Not everyone knows as much as you do regarding computers. Oh, and while you're babbling about how these people should KNOW that a hard disk loses space to formatting, why don't you try explaining why it loses that space? After all, you should KNOW, since you're so awesome at computing that it's simple knowledge. Learn to be civil. It's no wonder so many of you don't have girlfriends.

One other thing: I have never seen a 20GB hard drive lose 1.5GB of space due to formatting. There's something else responsible for further space loss. My 80GB computer drive lost maybe 2GB to "formatting". And you'll never get me to believe that it's directory information or some kind of "operating system"... 1.5GB is enough to run a lot of versions of Windows on.
Actually, TigerXChaos, it's due to the way hard drive makers report disk capacity. See this thread, post #2, for my answer.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 12:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
You people are all acting like elitist jerks.

First off: I have been using computers since '87 and have been building my own since the mid '90s, so I know what I'm talking about here.

Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space. Why this is, I don't know; I find it the most asinine thing ever that a "20GB" disk would decrease to 18.5GB.

Learn to be civil. It's no wonder so many of you don't have girlfriends.

One other thing: I have never seen a 20GB hard drive lose 1.5GB of space due to formatting. There's something else responsible for further space loss. My 80GB computer drive lost maybe 2GB to "formatting". And you'll never get me to believe that it's directory information or some kind of "operating system"... 1.5GB is enough to run a lot of versions of Windows on.
Wait, you're not an elitist jerk, so if you have never seen it happen, it's impossible, right?
And, honestly, building your own computer (unless we are talking about COMPLETELY from scratch does not give you any more insight into how hard drives are formatted than most other heavy computer users.

Oh, and yeah, I'll give you my extra 1.5gigs to run a lot of versions of windows on. It's a small sacrifice for me.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 01:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space.
Wrong, it was never there in the first place.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 01:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
Yes, I understand that formatted hard disks lose a portion of their space. Why this is, I don't know; I find it the most asinine thing ever that a "20GB" disk would decrease to 18.5GB.
you aren't "losing" anything. you should know that you aren't "losing" capacity - it's simply two different representation of the same information unfortunately caused by two different conventions.

as indicated in another thread, it's the difference in base 2 and base 10 counting. hardware manufacturers use base 10, so for example, 1 GB is 1000 MB.

software people use base 2. 1 GB is actually 1024 MB. (1024 is 2 raised to the 10th power.)

so if you purchase a 20 GB HD, it's 20,000 MB. But software count 1024 MB as 1 GB, so the software indicated capacity becomes 20,000 / 1024 * 1000 = 19531 MB or 19.53 GB. (in real life, it's even worse because the difference in convention carries even further below than MB level, but instead, all the way to bytes. i'm just giving this as an example.)

it's not elitist or whatever, it's confusing but it's the convention.

i think it's pointless to "make" apple label their iPods as "19.53 GB iPod" because no one makes "20 GB" HD that can hold 20480 MB of info. they all hold 20,000 MB. and apple even makes a note that the actual formatted capacity is "less."
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 03:23 PM   #11
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TigerXChaos, there is one small thing I need to correct about what you said. That is that ALL MP3 players are subect to this difference between advertised capacity and formatted capacity. My 256mb flash drive is 247mb formatted, the 20 Gb Dell music player will only be 18.5Gb formatted. Any hard drive you buy is affected by this, it is by no means an Apple thing. It may have started out as a marketing thing, but it has basicaly become a deffinition. Anything you buy will have a smaller formatted capacity.
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Old Sep 15, 2004, 04:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerXChaos
You people are all acting like elitist jerks.
A "120GB" disk from any manufacturer is 120,000,000,000 Bytes. A Kilobyte is 1024 Bytes. A Megabyte is 1024 Kilobytes. A Gigabyte is 1024 Megabytes. Do the math. That's actually a 111.76GB disk. Who the heck has ever seen a 111GB hard drive for sale in a store?

Decaf. Try it. Seriously.

Last edited by yellow; Sep 15, 2004 at 04:18 PM.
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