New iMacs

[Atheist_Peace]

Hello,
I'm gonna take one of the new iMacs. Is anyone else buying one?
What do you think I should expect, regarding games performances? Is it possible it could run games coming out in the next months? Thanks

[jsw]

I think maybe you should wait until it's announced in a few weeks and we can see specs before asking specific performance questions. However, I see no reason why any G5-based system with even a halfway-decent graphics card (and iMac video has never seemed any better than halfway decent...) wouldn't play games coming out soon. Play them perfectly? No. Play them adequately? Yes.

[Converted2Truth]

Originally Posted by Atheist_Peace

Hello,
I'm gonna take one of the new iMacs. Is anyone else buying one?
What do you think I should expect, regarding games performances? Is it possible it could run games coming out in the next months? Thanks

This is a scarry time to decide. I'd wait to make your decision until you know what graphics chipset they integrate. If they put the ATI 9800 pro in there,... that'd be sweet, so i'd say ya, otherwise, i'd spend half the money and buy a pc to game. But this is all based off of you just wanting the computer to mostly game.

[Zaty]

The new iMac will probably get a GeForce 5200 Ultra or a Radeon 9200. The iMac won't get a better chip than the dual 1.8 PM. So, don't expect too much. Secondly, I think Apple is indifferent to gaming performance. The Mas has never been nor will ever be a gaming platform.

[invaLPsion]

Originally Posted by Zaty

The new iMac will probably get a GeForce 5200 Ultra or a Radeon 9200. The iMac won't get a better chip than the dual 1.8 PM. So, don't expect too much. Secondly, I think Apple is indifferent to gaming performance. The Mas has never been nor will ever be a gaming platform.

I disagree. My bet is that they will put a 9600XT or a 9800PRO in the top-of-the-line 17 or 20 inch iMac. (If they are still all-in-ones, of course. We don't know. )

[SilentPanda]

I would anticipate that the graphics card would be *at least* Core Image/Core Video "compatible". I think that's a safe assumption. Anything less would just be silly.

[Zaty]

Originally Posted by invaLPsion

I disagree. My bet is that they will put a 9600XT or a 9800PRO in the top-of-the-line 17 or 20 inch iMac. (If they are still all-in-ones, of course. We don't know. )

So, the iMac would have a better graphics chip than the standard PM configuration? Do you really think that's happening?

[Zaty]

Originally Posted by SilentPanda

I would anticipate that the graphics card would be *at least* Core Image/Core Video "compatible". I think that's a safe assumption. Anything less would just be silly.

That's true, so no Radeon 9200

[edesignuk]

Arguably the iMac should get the 9600/9800 as they are now consumer level gaming cards, that should be in consumer level home machines. The PowerMacs should all have higher end stuff in them (X800, 6800UL), with an option to downgrade to a 9600 at minimum for those that aren’t interested in GPU power.

No Apple desktop computer should have an FX5200 or ***** like that in them, these are expensive machines, they shouldn’t have cheap crap in them.

[Zaty]

Originally Posted by edesignuk

Arguably the iMac should get the 9600/9800 as they are now consumer level gaming cards, that should be in consumer level home machines. The PowerMacs should all have higher end stuff in them (X800, 6800UL), with an option to downgrade to a 9600 at minimum for those that aren’t interested in GPU power.

No Apple desktop computer should have an FX5200 or ***** like that in them, these are expensive machines, they shouldn’t have cheap crap in them.

I couldn't agree more but we all know Apple too well

[edesignuk]

Originally Posted by Zaty

I couldn't agree more but we all know Apple too well

Yup, sad isn't it. And you know what, if I complain about it when they are released I will still get people telling me to shut up moaning and go buy a Dell Apple know they have a great legion of dedicated fanboys/gals, and they frequently take the piss out of them by giving them old crap in expensive casing.

[Zaty]

Originally Posted by edesignuk

Yup, sad isn't it. And you know what, if I complain about it when they are released I will still get people telling me to shut up moaning and go buy a Dell Apple know they have a great legion of dedicated fanboys/gals, and they frequently take the piss out of them by giving them old crap in expensive casing.

That's the reason why I understand PC users who say they wouldn't want to become part of the Apple world because of all those fanatic Mac user who blindly applaud to whatever Apple is doing. Don't get me wrong, I love my PB and I definitely don't want to go back to Windows but to me, Apple is just a company, who like any other company, first and foremost wants to make as much money as possible.

[Elan0204]

It seems to me that nowadays people's video cards are becoming obselte more quickly than their processors. When Quartz Extreme came out a whole bunch of video cards were left out, and now with core image, even more people will be left in the cold. Actually, with core image most people with a "current" mac won't be supported. Apple really needs to get better video cards in to their machines, instead of using them as a easy way to increase profit margin, especially on a machine where you can't upgrade the card later.

[ChrisFromCanada]

I think that when apple made the announcement about the required cards for the Core stuff, they were also realizing that people will be upset when their expensive G5 iMac wont be supported by an operating system that is only coming out 5 months later, and therefore will at least put the lowest end cards required for Core image/video in the G5 imacs.

[vraxtus]

Originally Posted by Elan0204

Actually, with core image most people with a "current" mac won't be supported. Apple really needs to get better video cards in to their machines, instead of using them as a easy way to increase profit margin, especially on a machine where you can't upgrade the card later.

You couldn't be any more incorrect.

The whole idea behind Core Imaging is to implement pixel programming into 2D apps, most noticeably the system environment, to offload some work onto the GPU.

Every current card, including the 5200FX (and I'm willing to bet the 9200 also) supports pixel shading and pixel programming. No one's going to be left in the dark, and frankly I think you're an idiot for thinking so.....

[Zaty]

From Apple's website:

The performance gains and features supported by Core Image ultimately depend on the graphics card. Graphics cards capable of pixel-level programming deliver the best performance. But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.


Supported graphics cards:


ATI Radeon 9800 XT

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro

ATI Radeon 9700 Pro

ATI Radeon 9600 XT

ATI Radeon 9600 Pro

ATI Mobility Radeon 9700

ATI Mobility Radeon 9600

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra

NVIDIA GeForceFX Go 5200

NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 Ultra



These cards are available in today’s PowerBooks, Power Mac G5s and both the 17-inch and 20-inch iMac.

As you can see, the Radeon 9200 will not be supported

[vraxtus]

Originally Posted by Zaty

From Apple's website:



As you can see, the Radeon 9200 will not be supported

From ATI's 9200 specifications description:

Features
CHARISMA ENGINE™ II
Four parallel rendering pipelines process up to 1.1 billion pixels per second
High performance 2nd generation hardware transform & lighting engine
Advanced vertex shader support for the latest programmable effects
SMARTSHADER™ technology

Full support for DirectX ® 8.1 programmable pixel and vertex shaders in hardware
1.4 pixel shaders support up to 22 instructions and up to 6 textures per rendering pass
1.1 vertex shaders support vertex programs up to 128 instructions
Complete feature set also supported in OpenGL ® via extensions
Programmable shaders provide enhanced 3D effects in over 100 existing and upcoming game titles

SMOOTHVISION™
Image quality enhancement features for Direct3D™ and OpenGL ® applications
Programmable full-scene anti-aliasing supports 2 to 6 samples with user selectable performance and quality modes
Advanced anisotropic filtering supports 2 to 16 samples for high quality texture rendering with minimal performance impact


I'm VERY much willing to bet that it will be supported by the time Core Image comes out... seeing as how it is VERY much capable of Pixel Shading/Programming.

[Converted2Truth]

Originally Posted by vraxtus

I'm VERY much willing to bet that it will be supported by the time Core Image comes out... seeing as how it is VERY much capable of Pixel Shading/Programming.

Let's hope so, or everyone with an iBook will be left out in the cold...

[Zaty]

Originally Posted by vraxtus

I'm VERY much willing to bet that it will be supported by the time Core Image comes out... seeing as how it is VERY much capable of Pixel Shading/Programming.

Honestly, I was surprised when I first read that the Radeon 9200 was not listed but the fact that the chip itself is capable of supporting core image doesn't mean Apple we allow it. As we all know, the Radeon 9200 is capable of monitor spanning but Apple blocked it for marketing reasons. I agree it would make sense if the Radeon was supported but we don't know Apple's strategy.

[applekid]

Don't forget this:

But Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac.

Technically, every graphics card is supported, but it will require some CPU power for older cards.

I'm going to have to say, at best, we'll probably see a Radeon 9600 at the low-end or a FX 5600 Ultra at the low-end. Possibly a 9800 in the high-end, but that's being very optimistic. There's such a gap between the FX 5200 and 9600 Pro. That's why it's hard to guess. Apple should end up introducing a new card for the iMac or we're going to see the FX 5200 again, guys.

Remember, ATI did release its 9800 Mobility, so a 9800 chipset shouldn't be too off. Maybe a 9800 Mobility will be in the next iMac for all we know.

We still have no clue what this G5 iMac is going to have, what can be upgraded, etc. So, to make a bold statement where you don't even know what the product is, is not smart.

[Daveman Deluxe]

I REALLY doubt that the Radeon Mobility 9800 will make it into the iMac. For starters, the M9800 is based on the X800 desktop graphics card. The only reason it doesn't have the "X" designation is because ATI has decreed that only graphics cards using PCI Express will use the "X" model numbers, and the Radeon Mobility 9800 uses AGP.

[ThomasJefferson]

When I read about the heat issues with the iMac G5, I decided to wait for the next gen. or go with a Powermac next year. Maybe when the G5 2 gig is the entry level pmac.

To ease the wait, I bought a new Powerbook G4 12in. A spiffy machine.

There is joy in mudville.

[Ninja_Turtle]

i think apple should give a half good graphics card, and the ability to change the graphics card if one desires, i mean seriously...i hate not being able to upgrade any macs EXCEPT the g4 or g5 towers, which with out doubt are the most expensive macs....i totally hate that

[Atheist_Peace]

Thanks for your answers. Anyway, running the games at 800 x 600 and medium details would be appreciated tho. And it will be a large improvement, from this situation. I got a G4 400 with an ati rage 128, 16 mb vram

[invaLPsion]

Originally Posted by Zaty

So, the iMac would have a better graphics chip than the standard PM configuration? Do you really think that's happening?

I think that if this is truly and ALL NEW and REVAMPED iMac Apple would want to show it off. A good graphics card would be essential, expecially if this new iMac is non-upgradeable. If it is upgradeable, Apple can get away with putting in cheaper cards.

Your argument is rather pointless because nobody thought an eMac would get an 8x superdrive before a powermac or iMac. Well, it did...