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Old Jan 8, 2010, 04:42 PM   #1
JeffBarnett
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Installing Leopard on an eMac - no DVD drive

Please help... I have two identical eMacs, G4 700 MHz, CD-ROM drive. I'm trying to install OS 10.5 on both machines, and as I understand it, there are two distinct hurdles I need to overcome...

1) The installer is on DVD, and these machines don't have a DVD drive.
2) Leopard is unsupported on processors slower than 867 MHz.

I need to figure out how to get past these two problems and install Leopard on these two machines.

My original plan was to use Disk Utility on my Intel MacBook to make a disk image of the installer, transfer that image to a firewire hard drive, and connect that drive to the eMac to run the installer. As I understand it, this won't work because the installer will quit as soon as it checks the processor speed.

A friend pointed me to a utility called Leopard Assist, which tricks the installer into thinking the processor speed is actually 867 MHz so Leopard will install correctly. However, it looks like this utility requires you to insert your Leopard installer and reboot the computer off the DVD drive (which won't work for me, obviously).

Can somebody give me some pointers? I'm a competent but not super-tweaky Mac user. I'm not afraid of using Terminal but I'm smart enough not to unless I have some very specific commands to copy.

(And before you ask, it is a family license and I can install it on two more computers. No problems there.)
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 04:50 PM   #2
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Why would you want to install an OS on a computer it would run terribly on?
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 04:58 PM   #3
JeffBarnett
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Quote:
Why would you want to install an OS on a computer it would run terribly on?
My kids use the computers for web browsing, email, and nothing else. Parental controls are dramatically improved in Leopard. I plan on disabling everything I can (Time Machine, Spaces, Spotlight, etc).
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 05:25 PM   #4
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I'm not sure you can install a OS without a DVD drive.
Maybe from a external HDD. but, then again, that may not work.
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 05:30 PM   #5
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If you have another Mac, Target Disk Mode works.
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 05:40 PM   #6
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what about buying a dvd drive (external firewire )will do , problem solved they dont cost a lot and come always handy , maybe your kids want to watch a dvd on the emac's

but leopard will ruuuuuun slooooooow on a 700mhz eMac,
i was not patient enough when i had it on my eMac which is a 1.42 ghz model

and osx tiger runs bettter and you can control your kids too

You can use parental controls to create an account for a user with safe limits on the applications they can run, what files they can access, and how they use the internet.

With parental controls you can:

* Create settings for Internet applications. For example, you can establish a list of email addresses with which the user can exchange email, specify websites the user can view, and approve of individuals the user can chat with.
* Limit the applications the user can access.
* Prevent settings or preferences from being changed accidentally.
* Prevent essential files from being deleted.


To setup an account with parental controls:

1. Choose Apple menu > System Preferences and click Accounts.
2. If some settings are dimmed, click the lock icon and type an administrator name and password.
3. Select the user account you want to restrict.
4. Click Parental Controls.
5. Select Finder & System in the family controls list and click Configure.
6. To set limits for the user, select Some Limits. If the user is a young child, for example, and you want to provide an interface that is easier to use, select Simple Finder.
7. Choose the limits by selecting the options, and then click OK.

and here is a good webfilter for kids so they cant access sites you dont want them to look at
DansGuardian is an award winning Open Source web content filter which currently runs on Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Mac OS X, HP-UX, and Solaris. It filters the actual content of pages based on many methods including phrase matching, PICS filtering and URL filtering. It does not purely filter based on a banned list of sites like lesser totally commercial filters. DansGuardian is designed to be completely flexible and allows you to tailor the filtering to your exact needs. It can be as draconian or as unobstructive as you want. The default settings are geared towards what a primary school might want but DansGuardian puts you in control of what you want to block.
http://dansguardian.org/

but never underestimate a childs brain ...these little humanoids are clever
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Last edited by MacHamster68; Jan 8, 2010 at 06:09 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 05:41 PM   #7
hughvane
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I think you've pretty much answered your own question, in your second listed statement. Leopard will not run, or it will run poorly, on either of those eMacs. I know nothing of Leopard Assist, except for what I've read on MacUpdate. What is the current OS on the eMacs?

The first issue can be overcome with an external dvd drive connected by firewire, but it would largely be a pointless exercise.

For what you're trying to do, I'd warmly recommend a computer upgrade. If you want to stay with eMac, try for a 1.42 GHz model (no capacitor problem). Failing that, a 1.0 or 1.25 GHz. These machines are generally rock-solid, designed and made for the education market (where computers take a hammering), and they can be very cheap. Or, an early G5 iMac might suit.

Yes, it will cost money, but I think you would be terribly disappointed with Leopard on a 700 eMac.
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Old Jan 8, 2010, 06:18 PM   #8
MacHamster68
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he wont be disappointed as he is using his MBP ,but his kids will be , they might put up with the restrictions, but if the things they are allowed to do take ages they lose the fun,
restricting does not mean you have to slow down
the mac to a standstill before it opens anything
so don't be a bad daddy give them tiger , so they can enjoy their eMacs
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Last edited by MacHamster68; Jan 8, 2010 at 06:25 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 08:03 AM   #9
JeffBarnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHamster68 View Post
what about buying a dvd drive (external firewire )will do , problem solved they dont cost a lot and come always handy , maybe your kids want to watch a dvd on the emac's

but leopard will ruuuuuun slooooooow on a 700mhz eMac,
i was not patient enough when i had it on my eMac which is a 1.42 ghz model
It will run slowly, but it will run. I've seen it. My kids don't care. The oldest is 10, and at 700 MHz, this computer is twice as fast as the one she has at school. They have blue & white G3s running OS9.

Quote:
and osx tiger runs bettter and you can control your kids too

You can use parental controls to create an account for a user with safe limits on the applications they can run, what files they can access, and how they use the internet.

With parental controls you can:

* Create settings for Internet applications. For example, you can establish a list of email addresses with which the user can exchange email, specify websites the user can view, and approve of individuals the user can chat with.
* Limit the applications the user can access.
* Prevent settings or preferences from being changed accidentally.
* Prevent essential files from being deleted.
I've very familiar with parental controls in Tiger, and I've got them set up already, but the big difference between parental controls on Tiger and Leopard is not content filtering. It's the ability to set time limits. Leopard lets you set the amount of time that each kid gets to spend on the computer each day, and in what hours. If they try to log on past their bedtime, it won't let them.

Quote:
and here is a good webfilter for kids so they cant access sites you dont want them to look at
DansGuardian is an award winning Open Source web content filter which currently runs on Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Mac OS X, HP-UX, and Solaris. It filters the actual content of pages based on many methods including phrase matching, PICS filtering and URL filtering. It does not purely filter based on a banned list of sites like lesser totally commercial filters. DansGuardian is designed to be completely flexible and allows you to tailor the filtering to your exact needs. It can be as draconian or as unobstructive as you want. The default settings are geared towards what a primary school might want but DansGuardian puts you in control of what you want to block.
http://dansguardian.org/
Thanks for that I'll check it out. Parental controls on a Mac (even on Tiger) give you the option to block all websites except for those that you have pre-approved, and that's what I've done. Each of the kids has a list of a couple dozen "dad-approved" websites, and they can't venture out on the web without permission.

Quote:
but never underestimate a childs brain ...these little humanoids are clever
You don't have to tell me. My mother called me a few weeks ago to let me know that the videos my kids uploaded to YouTube were adorable. Unbeknownst to me, my 10 year old had snuck on my Intel iMac, used Photo Booth to record a video, created a GMail account for herself, logged into YouTube, and uploaded a video greeting to her grandmother.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 08:14 AM   #10
JeffBarnett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughvane View Post
...What is the current OS on the eMacs?
Current OS is 10.4.10.

Quote:
For what you're trying to do, I'd warmly recommend a computer upgrade. If you want to stay with eMac, try for a 1.42 GHz model (no capacitor problem). Failing that, a 1.0 or 1.25 GHz. These machines are generally rock-solid, designed and made for the education market (where computers take a hammering), and they can be very cheap.
Thanks, but this is actually a result of a computer upgrade. I recently bumped up two other machines to a new iMac and Mac Mini, and these computers are getting moved to the kids' bedrooms, which previously had no computers at all.

Quote:
Yes, it will cost money, but I think you would be terribly disappointed with Leopard on a 700 eMac.
Well, I appreciate the suggestion, but having bought three new Macs in the past year (a MacBook in addition to the two above), two iPods and an iPhone, my Steve Jobs budget is pretty much tapped out. And I'm sure I would be terribly disappointed in Leopard on a 700 MHz eMac. I don't think my kids will care, though. As I said, they only do two things - email their grandparents, and play on a small variety of kid-themed websites. They don't have more than one application running at a time, don't play games, don't use a word processor, don't watch streaming video. Their expectations are pretty low.

The biggest reason for moving to Leopard is ending the arguments over who has more time on the computer. I've got four kids age 4-10, and in Leopard, I can make sure that each of them has the same amount of time. Once they've reached their daily limit of computer time, the system logs them off. I can also use computer time as a reward / punishment system, logging in as an admin and giving extra time or taking time away.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 08:38 AM   #11
MacHamster68
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get the 4 year old a little iMac g3 , fantastic little computers

btw you could use your mac as a server and control everything from there ,
thats how company's do it to keep employees working instead of surfing
and playing online games
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 09:04 AM   #12
cjmillsnun
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Your best option is to remove safari from the eMacs and install something like bumpercar.

http://www.freeverse.com/mac/product...&view=features

This runs on Tiger, costs $30 per licence and has parental controls including internet time restrictions, blacklists, whitelists, profanity filtering, ICRA filtering and personal data shielding.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 01:42 PM   #13
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The main features of DansGuardian 2.4 are as follows:

* Significantly cheaper than IGear (one of the best commercial filters).
* Can block adverts by the use of an advert URL block list.
* Can filter text and HTML pages for obscene (sexual, racial, violent, etc) content.
* Uses an advanced phrase weighting system to reduce over or under blocking.
* Can filter sites using the PICS labeling system.
* Can filter according to MIME type and file extension.
* Can filter according to URLs including Regular Expression URLs.
* URL filtering is compatible with squidGuard black lists.
* The URL filtering is able to filter https requests.
* Can work in a 'whitelist' mode where all sites except those listed are blocked.
* Can block all IP based URLs.
* Is able to block sites when users try using the IP address of the site instead.
* Produces a log in a very human readable format.
* Optionally produces a log in CSV format for easy import into databases etc.
* Is able to log the username using either Ident or basic proxy authentication.
* It has the ability to switch off filtering for specified sites, parts of sites, browser IPs and usernames.
* Can block specified source IPs and usernames.
* Can block or limit web uploading (e.g. attachments in Hotmail).
* Has the ability to work in a stealth mode where it logs sites that would have been blocked, but does not block them. This allows you to monitor your users without them knowing.
* Uses a very intelligent algorithm to match phrases in web pages mixed in with HTML code and white space.
* Big5, Unicode and top-bit set characters can be used in search phrases.
* DansGuardian 2.4.0 is over 6 times faster than DansGuardian 1.x.x.
* URL filtering is significantly faster than squidGuard.
* The configuration lists use the same incredibly fast code that allows them all to be hundreds of thousands of entries long.
* 100% C++ and can compile on GCC 3.
* Can be made to re-read config files with a HUP signal.
* Works perfectly in conjunction with Squid and Oops. Also see this important information.
* Has no 3rd party library requirements (no nb++ as was used in version 1) so can be installed much easier and so is also provided as an RPM.
* Supports (adds) the squid X-Forwarded-For header line.
* Supports compressed (Content-Encoding gzip and deflate) HTML.
* Can be made to only listen on 1 IP.

and best its totally free
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 02:02 PM   #14
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You could attempt Remote Install from one of the other Macs you have.
I've completed it with a few systems.

Otherwise as suggested above, grab a firewire cable and you can Target Disk Mode the install.

and Leopard should run decently on the eMac. one I had set up was i believe similar to yours and it ran without issues just to do some browsing and word processing.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 05:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffBarnett View Post
...
You don't have to tell me. My mother called me a few weeks ago to let me know that the videos my kids uploaded to YouTube were adorable. Unbeknownst to me, my 10 year old had snuck on my Intel iMac, used Photo Booth to record a video, created a GMail account for herself, logged into YouTube, and uploaded a video greeting to her grandmother.
I'm impressed! 10 year olds know too much. Are you sure the kids couldn't find a way to sneak around paental controls?
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 05:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MacHamster68 View Post
The main features of DansGuardian 2.4 are as follows:
<snipped>
No mention of time restrictions though, which is the main thing the OP wanted from Leopard.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 06:59 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by cjmillsnun View Post
No mention of time restrictions though, which is the main thing the OP wanted from Leopard.
if he runs his mac with leopard and makes it a server, then everything is controlled form his mac ,
then he can control the time limits very well no need to install the slow walking leopard on the eMacs to do that

every company does that , so employees cant access porn sites or ebay during work , and only during breaks they can allow you to access the web freely ,or with some restrictions , its dead simple
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Last edited by MacHamster68; Jan 9, 2010 at 07:04 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 07:06 PM   #18
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Did the OP check the minimum system requirements for Leopard? It requires a Mac with an 867Mhz G4 processor. It will not install on a 700Mhz Mac. There is a thread here that gives instructions on how to install Leopard on machines that are below the required specs. Search it first.
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 07:46 PM   #19
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yes you can hack leopard on slower macs , but thats only suitable for people who like more eye candy then usability


so as the processor on the 700mhz eMac does not comply with the minimum requirement he has to max out the ram to 1 gb in order to make it working , a other thing that will work and boost the eMacs is overclocking the processor which is easyyy and works without destroying or overheating
so he could overclock safely to 900mhz and the eMac will comply with the minimum requirements (with external firewire dvd which is always handy to have)
how to is found here

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=111922
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Last edited by MacHamster68; Jan 9, 2010 at 08:18 PM.
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