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Old Aug 26, 2004, 11:38 PM   #1
adamfilip
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New Dual Core G5 - Fall 2005

I wish! - Black Anodized Aluminum
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Old Aug 26, 2004, 11:40 PM   #2
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thats frickin awsome... and with the specs damn! i want one!

it will never happen tho... sadly
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Old Aug 26, 2004, 11:46 PM   #3
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Also, expandable to 16 gigs of RAM
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Old Aug 26, 2004, 11:47 PM   #4
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well if you use 2gb sticks

im saving my pennies
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Old Aug 26, 2004, 11:54 PM   #5
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At this rate, the population in Spamville (just off the G5 highway) is going to explode.

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Old Aug 27, 2004, 12:07 AM   #6
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No one will be using PC3200 by then... my guess is that it'll be DDR2 or DDR3...
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 12:10 AM   #7
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its only a year away

ram hasnt changed much since the year ago when the g5 was introduced

i figured DDR2 wont be readily availale by next fall
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 12:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamfilip
its only a year away

ram hasnt changed much since the year ago when the g5 was introduced

i figured DDR2 wont be readily availale by next fall

There are computers using DDR2 right now.
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 01:43 AM   #9
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Hate to be nitpicky but realistically, wouldn't it have a 1.75GHz FSB?

Other than that, nice specs. Let's just hope IBM can pull it off given their too recent history in production of processors. I like the external SATA connections too, could be very useful; I find the current 2 drive configuration too restricting. Oh, and STANDARD bluetooth, I got my Rev A when Rev B's were out so I couldn't customize and I'm saddened by not being able to get bluetooth without attaching a rather shoddy looking dongle to the pristine look of the G5.
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 07:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart
Hate to be nitpicky but realistically, wouldn't it have a 1.75GHz FSB?

Other than that, nice specs. Let's just hope IBM can pull it off given their too recent history in production of processors. I like the external SATA connections too, could be very useful; I find the current 2 drive configuration too restricting. Oh, and STANDARD bluetooth, I got my Rev A when Rev B's were out so I couldn't customize and I'm saddened by not being able to get bluetooth without attaching a rather shoddy looking dongle to the pristine look of the G5.
incase you didnt realize it.. its just made up..

anyways.. the frontside bus doesnt have to be 1/2 of the clock speed if you read the tech documents on the g5 you wil see it has other multiplier settings. aswell

similar to how the memory isnt half of the bus speed . since they are independant


but to make you happy.. now with a 1750mhz Front side bus
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 05:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamfilip
incase you didnt realize it.. its just made up..

anyways.. the frontside bus doesnt have to be 1/2 of the clock speed if you read the tech documents on the g5 you wil see it has other multiplier settings. aswell

similar to how the memory isnt half of the bus speed . since they are independant


but to make you happy.. now with a 1750mhz Front side bus
Yeah, I knew it was fictitious. Also, thanks for the info on the FSB speed. I just assumed that it was always 1/2 the clock speed because that's how all of the past/present G5's have been made.
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 05:47 PM   #12
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Only 1MB for a dual core? What's wrong w/ them. It's a photochop! Make it unbelievable like 4MB.
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 06:32 PM   #13
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Also the black casing, it is sooooo Dell-like....But I'll buy two, just for folding!
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 07:30 PM   #14
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I would expect faster and more dense RAM options, but otherwise it looks good to me. PC4300 DDR2 (533MHz) is already shipping in large quantity and is available as 2GB and even 4GB DIMMs. So I think it should have up to 16GB of PC4300 RAM optional (or 32GB if Apple adopts newer tech before its available in sufficient quantity). Assuming IBM fixes its problems, it looks reasonable to me.
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Old Aug 27, 2004, 09:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamfilip
incase you didnt realize it.. its just made up..
Nope, that never occurred to me... I just wanted to use the dancing monkeys.
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Old Aug 28, 2004, 02:15 PM   #16
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I don't really are for the black anodized aluminum look. Prefer the current aluminum look, it shines. It is always nice to dream. Is there thinking that there will be no G5 upgrade at MWSF? Should we be looking for an upgrade around WWDC?
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Old Aug 28, 2004, 03:33 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamfilip
anyways.. the frontside bus doesnt have to be 1/2 of the clock speed if you read the tech documents on the g5 you wil see it has other multiplier settings. aswell

similar to how the memory isnt half of the bus speed . since they are independant
I don't know if you'll know the answer to this, but can the multiplier basically be anything? I mean, I know the common ones like 2:1 and 3:1, but what about 7:3, which is what you'd need to get a 1.5 GHz Frontside bus on a 3.5 Ghz chip? Is that possible? What about 14:11?
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 06:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by wdlove
I don't really are for the black anodized aluminum look. Prefer the current aluminum look, it shines. It is always nice to dream. Is there thinking that there will be no G5 upgrade at MWSF? Should we be looking for an upgrade around WWDC?
I don't see an update at MWSF. If their lucky, they'll finally catch up on their order backlog by then.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 11:33 AM   #19
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You guys do realize that that fast of a Front Side Bus won't really matter unless you have ram that can match the same speed. Even the current 1.25Ghz FSB can't be fully used because steve won't upgrade to DDR2.


And yes, PC's already have DDR2 and it rawks.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 01:35 PM   #20
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Apple will put four busses of ddr1 ram in! Then when you upgrade you have to buy 4 same sticks of ram!!
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 01:48 PM   #21
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Nice idea, but what this makes me wonder is where Apple is going to go when it redesigns the current form factor.....

D
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 01:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MrJohnson
You guys do realize that that fast of a Front Side Bus won't really matter unless you have ram that can match the same speed. Even the current 1.25Ghz FSB can't be fully used because steve won't upgrade to DDR2.


And yes, PC's already have DDR2 and it rawks.
I would not be surprised if DDR2 made its debut in Macs along with PCI Express. Dual-Channel DDR2-600 would fill a 1.25 GHz system bus nicely.
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 03:04 PM   #23
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJohnson
You guys do realize that that fast of a Front Side Bus won't really matter unless you have ram that can match the same speed. Even the current 1.25Ghz FSB can't be fully used because steve won't upgrade to DDR2.

And yes, PC's already have DDR2 and it rawks.
Wow, MrJohnson you really need to get educated on this material.

All of you need to read Memory Bandwidth vs Latency Timings. The majority of the article explains terms and then shows why DDR2 is only better in some situations; much like the P4 itself, in the pursuit of marketing leads the memory market is making questionable design choices. Bandwidth and latency are needed for different applications, and the expansion of bandwidth is leading to worse latency due to technological constraints. Simultaneously other innovations in memory bus design are making bandwidth far less important from a performance perspective by "solving" bandwidth outside the Ram stick.

All of this is fine, but page 6 is especially telling. This runaway expansion of bandwidth has been making up for its worse and worse memory timings by relying on motherboard speeds. Slower motherboard speeds in the Athlon64/XP (and by extension Macs) mean that the weak latency stats are not being made up for.

Athlons run better under tight-timing slower RAM than the currently stylish high-bandwidth DDR2 implementations, partly because the higher speed RAM can't achieve those speeds on an Athlon64; ironically the putatively slower, tighter-memory-timing sticks were able to be set to higher speeds.

Which just makes MrJohnson seem all the more foolish. Apple rightly is sticking to DDR RAM for the time being. Even speeding up the motherboard (while laudable) wouldn't change the basic validity of the DDR decision as they would no doubt further parallelize their memory bus, making the CPU latency-limited instead of bandwidth limited (which, for some applications, it already is).

Before someone asks why increasing the speed of the motherboard won't solve the latency problem as it is supposed to, on current die sizes as speed goes up the timings have to worsen, or have higher voltage throughput than JEDEC is willing to permit.

-RS
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 04:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by quidire
Wow, MrJohnson you really need to get educated on this material.

All of you need to read Memory Bandwidth vs Latency Timings. The majority of the article explains terms and then shows why DDR2 is only better in some situations; much like the P4 itself, in the pursuit of marketing leads the memory market is making questionable design choices. Bandwidth and latency are needed for different applications, and the expansion of bandwidth is leading to worse latency due to technological constraints. Simultaneously other innovations in memory bus design are making bandwidth far less important from a performance perspective by "solving" bandwidth outside the Ram stick.

All of this is fine, but page 6 is especially telling. This runaway expansion of bandwidth has been making up for its worse and worse memory timings by relying on motherboard speeds. Slower motherboard speeds in the Athlon64/XP (and by extension Macs) mean that the weak latency stats are not being made up for.

Athlons run better under tight-timing slower RAM than the currently stylish high-bandwidth DDR2 implementations, partly because the higher speed RAM can't achieve those speeds on an Athlon64; ironically the putatively slower, tighter-memory-timing sticks were able to be set to higher speeds.

Which just makes MrJohnson seem all the more foolish. Apple rightly is sticking to DDR RAM for the time being. Even speeding up the motherboard (while laudable) wouldn't change the basic validity of the DDR decision as they would no doubt further parallelize their memory bus, making the CPU latency-limited instead of bandwidth limited (which, for some applications, it already is).

Before someone asks why increasing the speed of the motherboard won't solve the latency problem as it is supposed to, on current die sizes as speed goes up the timings have to worsen, or have higher voltage throughput than JEDEC is willing to permit.

-RS
How true! DDR2's biggest issue is the increased latency it has associated with it. The way things are going right now, Mac OS X might just start using MRAM first, making DDR2 redundant...
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Old Aug 29, 2004, 07:29 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by quidire
Wow, MrJohnson you really need to get educated on this material.
Which just makes MrJohnson seem all the more foolish.
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