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Old Feb 10, 2010, 09:53 PM   #1
DylanWalker
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Upgrading PowerMac G5

I'll be getting my tax return soon, and I'm tempted to get a Mac Pro when they release them later this year (assuming they release a new one). Would love to see them release one with a SSD.

Anyway, the main reason for the upgrade is the lack of support among newer software for the non-intel macs (I got mine just before the Intel switch). What is your personal opinion on the future of the Macs? My only worry is that in another 4-5 years Apple will decide to switch processors again and I'll be in the same boat.

Offer your words of wisdom.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 11:04 PM   #2
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My only worry is that in another 4-5 years Apple will decide to switch processors again and I'll be in the same boat.
Switch to what? AMD? Nanotechnology? Back to PPC? Back to 68k?
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 11:08 PM   #3
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My only worry is that in another 4-5 years Apple will decide to switch processors again and I'll be in the same boat.

Offer your words of wisdom.
Honestly, in 4-5 years you will be looking at the purchase of a new system regardless because parts just don't last as long as they used to. Most people are lucky to get 3 years out of their Macs with recent models.

Buy the Mac Pro when they release new ones in March, you will understand why they moved to Intel.
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Old Feb 10, 2010, 11:22 PM   #4
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Switch to what? AMD? Nanotechnology? Back to PPC? Back to 68k?
Your post was absolutely pointless.

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Honestly, in 4-5 years you will be looking at the purchase of a new system regardless because parts just don't last as long as they used to. Most people are lucky to get 3 years out of their Macs with recent models.

Buy the Mac Pro when they release new ones in March, you will understand why they moved to Intel.
I've had absolutely no problems with my current Mac, I'll have had it for 5 years. Still performs great, my only problem is that the new OS doesn't support the old technology, and I'm starting to see the same from random software being developed. Originally, I bought the computer with the idea that I would keep it for the next 10 years, upgrading it as needed. That plan would still work if it weren't for the Intel switch (and that meddling dog too).

If those of you who know a bit more about the technology trends think I'll be in the same boat in another couple of years, then I would be wise to just keep my current PowerMac or upgrade to the cheaper iMac.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 07:38 AM   #5
Toronto Mike
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I'm not a computer expert. Others have much better advice about the future of technology trends and what that means for Macs.

However, you mentioned that you might be considering an iMac as a lesser option to keep you going over a shorter period. I'd like to offer this suggestion that others can help to support with their thoughts:

A refurbished 2008 2.8 Mac Pro. If you are thinking of a desktop anyways, then this unit might be all the power, expandibility, recent technology that you need. I still see them offered every once in a while on Apple's site. I know that if I was going to get a computer now, I'd want to be a little behind the curve to save on the high purchase price of what is currently offered. And - you get 8 ram slots. To get 8 ram slots for a new machine you have to go up into the much higher priced models until your nose bleeds. This model from what others have said offered the most value for your money in recent years.

I'd take the 2008 2.8 Mac Pro over any iMac if a desktop is what you are thinking. Just a thought.

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Old Feb 11, 2010, 11:54 AM   #6
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My advice ... keep the G5!

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Your post was absolutely pointless.



I've had absolutely no problems with my current Mac, I'll have had it for 5 years. Still performs great, my only problem is that the new OS doesn't support the old technology, and I'm starting to see the same from random software being developed. Originally, I bought the computer with the idea that I would keep it for the next 10 years, upgrading it as needed. That plan would still work if it weren't for the Intel switch (and that meddling dog too).

If those of you who know a bit more about the technology trends think I'll be in the same boat in another couple of years, then I would be wise to just keep my current PowerMac or upgrade to the cheaper iMac.

As a G4 geek, I sort of have the same "problem". My machine still works great and I am very satisfied with it.
Having said that, with your G5 there are some points to look closer:

- If you have a liquid cooled model, - sell it as soon as possible!
(many reports of leaked machines)
- Should you be on the lucky side of it and have the 2,3 dual air cooled, non AGP bus model - keep it at all cost! - (Best G5 ever existed)

On the software side, - let's face it: The difference on Snow Leopard to Leopard is not really important. CS2 and CS3 still runs perfect on a G5, most of Apple's programs are universal. Ok, they stop the universal Binary software now, but that really doesn't mean to throw away the G5. Do you really need the newest software and would that increase your profit margin? No. MS Office 2010 will most likely work on binary as well since they want to sell as much as possible, if not the current version still works fine.

In 4 years from now, the G5 will still work as great big file server for HD movies, MP3 and stuff like that together with your new mac system. See if you can catch a cheap Leopard server license on ebay- you will be amazed how much you can do with it! And with one of the new apps, you can live stream every movie on you machine via the iphone to your living room flatscreen with a simple HDMI cable. Using a screen sharing program works brilliant as well - even on a G4.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 03:00 PM   #7
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Switch to what? AMD? Nanotechnology? Back to PPC? Back to 68k?
Actually, the iPad does hint at Apple possibly moving back into designing processors for their machines. I doubt it will hit the tower/iMac/etc level, but you never know; 8 years ago a lot of people would never have believed Apple would switch to Intel...
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 03:02 PM   #8
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I'll be getting my tax return soon, and I'm tempted to get a Mac Pro when they release them later this year (assuming they release a new one). Would love to see them release one with a SSD.

Anyway, the main reason for the upgrade is the lack of support among newer software for the non-intel macs (I got mine just before the Intel switch). What is your personal opinion on the future of the Macs? My only worry is that in another 4-5 years Apple will decide to switch processors again and I'll be in the same boat.

Offer your words of wisdom.
If you are picking up a Mac Pro, I always suggest waiting until you absolutely need it (unless you go used/refurb), as then you'll get the most bang for your buck.

If in the meantime you want to start upgrading, I HIGHLY suggest picking up a pair of SSDs and running them as a RAID0 for your boot disc. That's my current set up in my G5, and when I eventually upgrade I can take those drives with me to my next system, so it's not throwing away money (like, say, more RAM would be if you plan on dumping the box in 6-12 months)...
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 03:33 PM   #9
Toronto Mike
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If in the meantime you want to start upgrading, I HIGHLY suggest picking up a pair of SSDs and running them as a RAID0 for your boot disc. That's my current set up in my G5, and when I eventually upgrade I can take those drives with me to my next system, so it's not throwing away money (like, say, more RAM would be if you plan on dumping the box in 6-12 months)...
Is the performance increase with the pair of SSDs dramatic enough to make a difference for you? I've been looking at this as my final upgrade option for my G5. I don't feel the need now based on the cost side of the upgrade, but when they come down in price in 1-2 years I will seriously consider it.

For me with CS4, amongst all the latest universal programs that I need, the G5 is still fantastic for my intermediate computing needs. Obviously the original poster has their own requirements. The idea that others have posted asking if the latest bells and whistles of Intel only software are that necessary to warrent the huge outlay for a newer machine, plus upgraded software - is a good question to ask ourselves.

Do we really need the latest software offerings? If Adobe didn't force the upgrade issue by having to upgrade within 3 versions or lose the right for the upgrade price for versions afterward, I would have stuck with CS2 because that is a great program as well for my needs. I'm glad that CS4 runs so well on a G5 - unless you are a power user, I'd be hard pressed to want to dump my machine and upgrade.

I understand your dilemma about what to do because when I finally starting using CS4 - the additional features were well worth it. CS5 will be Intel only - so I've drawn a line in the sand and am digging in, refusing to continue forward until the I really need to upgrade. For you, your needs are probably different, but hard to decide what to do just the same.

Technology. The treadmill they want us all on running as fast as we can - but it's never quite fast enough.

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Old Feb 11, 2010, 05:10 PM   #10
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I went with a pair of smaller OCZ Turbo drives in a RAID because I have eSata boxes and a server in our office, and the SATA I 1.5gbps limitation prevents them from working at the optimal speed. But even with the processor and bus bottlenecks of the G5 (I have a first gen 2003 2X2.0gHz), my boot times are next to nothing and apps open with a single bounce (except, for some reason, NeoOffice, but I don't use that too often). It DEFINITELY made a huge difference; the highly unreliable XBench scores have read speeds at up to around 260mbps (actual, so roughly 2.5gbps), which is up from around 70mbps or so on my traditional raid. I only have my apps and OS on it, though, all my libraries are on a scratch raid or external storage.

IMO, VERY worth it, everything is snappier and faster. Just don't expect miracles, it's no substitute for a solid Intel Mac tower, but it'll definitely breathe new life into your system for a while (and improve whatever you move into next).

EDIT TO ADD: As for CS4, everything opens worlds faster, and most PSD and InDesign stuff has improved. Flash improved a tiny bit, but not much. 3d stuff in Illustrator is about the same, but I almost never use Illustrator anymore. My needs sound very similar to yours, actually, and my current rig is fine; I'll actually be ok for a while though, since it'll be at least 2 years before any of my clients require CS5 files, and I'll be on an Intel by then.
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Old Feb 11, 2010, 07:01 PM   #11
Toronto Mike
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Thanks for your assessment of SSD drives. I will definitely get them for my last upgrade to the G5. I'll most likely hang onto what I have until the end of CS7's life cycle since I get all the performance I need now - although the SSDs would be great if they come down in price significantly. Also, from what I understand correctly, if I purchased the SSDs, and eventually ungraded to an Intel Mac Pro, I could still use the SSD drives in that machine as well. That would be more bang for the buck. You get the immediate boost for the G5 as well as increased preformance down the road. Although in 4 years, who can imagine how far ahead the Mac Pros will be.

For me - the biggest speed limitation of the G5 has always been me.

Thanks for you SSD review.

Mike
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 12:04 AM   #12
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If in the meantime you want to start upgrading, I HIGHLY suggest picking up a pair of SSDs and running them as a RAID0 for your boot disc. That's my current set up in my G5
I'm in the same boat as several of you...thinking an SSD for my G5 upgrade. But my G5 only has two internal drives, so I can't configure in RAID 0 if I want to keep my internal 1TB Caviar I use to store data, photos, films, etc.... Will just one SSD for OS / Apps be a decent speed bump? Worth the cost for me as a hobbyist? I'm tempted by the results of the new OWC Mercury that Lloyd Chambers just reviewed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Mike View Post
For me with CS4, amongst all the latest universal programs that I need, the G5 is still fantastic for my intermediate computing needs. I'm glad that CS4 runs so well on a G5 - unless you are a power user, I'd be hard pressed to want to dump my machine and upgrade.
The most "complicated" app I run right now is CS2! Glad to hear CS4 still cranks in the G5. Is it any slower or faster on your machine than
CS2 was?

Someday I'll run CS4 or 5, Aperture 3.0 (and FCE) when I move to an Intel Machine.

Last edited by hoya87eagle91; Feb 12, 2010 at 12:18 AM.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 06:29 AM   #13
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The most "complicated" app I run right now is CS2! Glad to hear CS4 still cranks in the G5. Is it any slower or faster on your machine than
CS2 was?

Someday I'll run CS4 or 5, Aperture 3.0 (and FCE) when I move to an Intel Machine.
For now I only use Photoshop CS4. I am not a heavy user, but I've found that CS4 feels a little faster than CS2 on my G5. However, Bridge CS4 is more sluggish than CS2 for me. The only reason why I use CS4 Bridge over CS2 Bridge is I can have the interface black - I have not figured out how to do this in CS2 Bridge or I would be using that instead.

I'm a huge fan of Lyod Chambers site:

http://macperformanceguide.com/index.html

I've tried to follow as many of his ideas as possible for increasing the performance of my G5 and I think these tweaks make a noticable difference. I feel more power coming out of the hood. Since I am happy with the features of CS4 for what I do - there is absolutely no reason to upgrade from what hardware/software I have until my needs change, or I run into serious compatibility issues dealing with the rest of the world. I think for older technology, if you can live with all the new applications moving to Intel only - the G5 is still a great machine for immediate users such as myself. Again - I find the slowest part of my workflow is myself, not my G5.

Your last comment of waiting to decide what do as you wait for CS5 - don't wait. My understanding is that CS5 will be Intel only. If you want to continue to use CS4 on your G5 you must buy it now. If you wait, you'll remain on CS2. And that goes for the rest of the software that you use. Rush out there and upgrade all the software that you think you would like to have if you think you are going to use your G5 for a long period of time. The rush is on to move to Intel software only.

Also as an interesting thought; I had a technican come over 2 weeks ago to fix a problem with a G4 tower I was giving to my parents. When talking over my future upgrade path with Macs, he strongly suggested to skip CS5 and wait for CS6. The potential problems he envisions with Adobe changing the code over in CS5 will more than likely cause too much grief. Knowing Adobe, they won't do enough to fix all of the bugs with updates. They'll just put the updates in the next version and make you pay for it.

It's not time to man the lifeboats with the G5 if it still works for you, but get CS4 if you cannot resist temptation for your G5.

Mike
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 06:57 AM   #14
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G5 Hard Drives

"I'm in the same boat as several of you...thinking an SSD for my G5 upgrade. But my G5 only has two internal drives, so I can't configure in RAID 0 if I want to keep my internal 1TB Caviar I use to store data, photos, films, etc..."

I have a Sonnet G5 Jive bracket in my G5, it holds 3 hard drives in the bottom front of the G5 case. I have them connected to a Seritek card running RAID 0 as my boot drive. One of the original hard drives is a clone of the RAID and the other is for Time Machine backups. The 3 hard drives to push the operating temps up a little but not too bad, only about 5 degrees. With SSHDs the temps should be less of a problem.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 07:46 AM   #15
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Your post was absolutely pointless.
So was your original question. Welcome to the club.
Ask a dumb question, you get a dumb answer.

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I have a Sonnet G5 Jive bracket in my G5
Too bad its an $80 piece of sheet metal or it would be a viable option. If it came with a SATA card it would be a reasonable price.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 03:37 PM   #16
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I'm in the same boat as several of you...thinking an SSD for my G5 upgrade. But my G5 only has two internal drives, so I can't configure in RAID 0 if I want to keep my internal 1TB Caviar I use to store data, photos, films, etc.... Will just one SSD for OS / Apps be a decent speed bump? Worth the cost for me as a hobbyist? I'm tempted by the results of the new OWC Mercury that Lloyd Chambers just reviewed.
One will suffice and will be a definite improvement, you'll just need to buy a larger one, and at the time I bought the pair, the price/gb was cheaper to get two smaller ones and the performance increase sealed the deal. You'll still notice a significant performance boost.

A neat trick, though--get a relatively cheap Syba 4 port (2XSATA/2XeSata), a power supply splitter. PATA to SATA, to run from the optical drive (around $3), and hit the hardware store with your drive mounting screws and pick up ones 2-3X the length, but the same width and thread count. Rough $.20. Done. You can now mount drives to the front grate of your tower and connect them to your machine, plus you have two new eSata ports to play with, all for around maybe $60 or so.

For EVERYONE in this thread, NewEgg currently has the 60gb SSD Agility for $129 after a $40 rebate, which is about $110 less than normal. That's a solid boot drive right there with a decent amount of space for apps, especially for the $/gb. I'm still fighting with myself over whether or not to order them, as my tech budget is pretty much maxxed right now...
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 07:27 PM   #17
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One will suffice and will be a definite improvement, you'll just need to buy a larger one, and at the time I bought the pair, the price/gb was cheaper to get two smaller ones and the performance increase sealed the deal. You'll still notice a significant performance boost.

A neat trick, though--get a relatively cheap Syba 4 port (2XSATA/2XeSata), a power supply splitter. PATA to SATA, to run from the optical drive (around $3), and hit the hardware store with your drive mounting screws and pick up ones 2-3X the length, but the same width and thread count. Rough $.20. Done. You can now mount drives to the front grate of your tower and connect them to your machine, plus you have two new eSata ports to play with, all for around maybe $60 or so.

For EVERYONE in this thread, NewEgg currently has the 60gb SSD Agility for $129 after a $40 rebate, which is about $110 less than normal. That's a solid boot drive right there with a decent amount of space for apps, especially for the $/gb. I'm still fighting with myself over whether or not to order them, as my tech budget is pretty much maxxed right now...
Do you have any links, pictures or how-to's on this little trick? I was thinking about adding an SSD boot drive, but didn't need or want to spring for the whole Jive/SATA card setup.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 12:10 PM   #18
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Your post was absolutely pointless.
+1. They usually are

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I've had absolutely no problems with my current Mac, I'll have had it for 5 years. Still performs great, my only problem is that the new OS doesn't support the old technology, and I'm starting to see the same from random software being developed. Originally, I bought the computer with the idea that I would keep it for the next 10 years, upgrading it as needed. That plan would still work if it weren't for the Intel switch (and that meddling dog too).

If those of you who know a bit more about the technology trends think I'll be in the same boat in another couple of years, then I would be wise to just keep my current PowerMac or upgrade to the cheaper iMac.
Well, Apple could care less about their old hardware and they[Apple] just wants you to buy their new products. Look at the 2006 Mac Pro with 32bit EFI. But you never know with technology today. That was 3 years ago. So maybe by 2013, the Mac Pros of today won't be supported any longer because of something new?

Look at your G5, it's a classic and no longer supported for a while but it's still a useful computer. I still use both my G5 and G4 Powerbook almost everyday. The G4 definitely shows it age but my G5 still runs strong.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 04:40 PM   #19
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They usually are
You'd be the expert in that field.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 08:14 PM   #20
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Do you have any links, pictures or how-to's on this little trick? I was thinking about adding an SSD boot drive, but didn't need or want to spring for the whole Jive/SATA card setup.
No, it was mostly a DIY thing I did, but I was actually given a steel bracket by a friend so I use that now. But essentially you'd buy all the parts that would come in the kit on their own, much cheaper than the kit, sans the bracket, and just screw the drives into the front grate (in front of the RAM/front fans). If the screws end up being too small, get some small washers and you're set!
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