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Old Apr 20, 2010, 04:49 PM   #1
zedsdead
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Tim Cook: Apple TV market small, but Apple still feels something is there

Q: Any plans for Apple TV?
A: Units were up 34%, but absolute number of units still small. Still a hobby. Comparing the Apple TV's small market to that of Mac, iPhone, iPod.

He also said that Apple will continue to invest in the Apple TV because they believe something is there.

Eventually they HAVE TO update the hardware. We are on 3.5 years now...and still waiting...
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 04:50 PM   #2
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Deja Vu.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 04:50 PM   #3
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It’s good unit sales were up. Surely, they’ll update the hardware at the September iTunes event.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 04:56 PM   #4
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It’s good unit sales were up. Surely, they’ll update the hardware at the September iTunes event.
I've been saying that for the past two years, and last year there were even rumors of an update, but nothing happened. I learned to not hold my breath with the Apple TV, but I hold out hope nonetheless.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:05 PM   #5
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they are going to eventually release an App store for Apple TV where you can download programs like HULU and games.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:17 PM   #6
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I love my Apple TV. Apple would be absolutely crazy to give up on it. I absolutely do not buy movies on disc anymore. Its all about disk space. Once people have enough disk space to store a good library of movies and tv shows on their computer's hard drive, this will take off along with the sale of movies, tv shows, and other video.

Once things like disk space catches up, the time will be right for a new revision of Apple TV.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:19 PM   #7
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they are going to eventually release an App store for Apple TV where you can download programs like HULU and games.
This would be a logical way to make a new market for it, but Apple is preoccupied with the portable market right now.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:32 PM   #8
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This would be a logical way to make a new market for it, but Apple is preoccupied with the portable market right now.
And some, like Samsung have already beaten them to the punch, in their new TVs. But of course, like iPhone OS 4.0 multitasking, Apple will make the best user experience. Though the Apple TV probably has the least predictable market for an App Store.

Regardless though, they need to dive right in. We've already speculated the use of A4 in the next revision of Apple TV, but does anyone think Apple may adopt the iPhone OS?
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 06:33 PM   #9
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And some, like Samsung have already beaten them to the punch, in their new TVs. But of course, like iPhone OS 4.0 multitasking, Apple will make the best user experience. Though the Apple TV probably has the least predictable market for an App Store.

Regardless though, they need to dive right in. We've already speculated the use of A4 in the next revision of Apple TV, but does anyone think Apple may adopt the iPhone OS?
At it's core, iPhone OS is still remarkably similar to OSX.. All they really have to do is port the appleTV's front end... or design yet another one.

But switching to an ARM chip for the appleTV would be a wise move, it'd run a lot cooler for a start.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 06:38 PM   #10
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I hope so. I love my apple TV so much but it could really use a make over.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 06:50 PM   #11
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But switching to an ARM chip for the appleTV would be a wise move, it'd run a lot cooler for a start.
And it will likely be more secure. 10.4 is old.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 08:37 PM   #12
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The only thing that is holding back the Apple TV is that it is a small fish in a very large pond. For many consumers it doesn't completely replace cable or satellite so it is just another content delivery method. I can get what I want to watch from Netflix for $10.99 a month. That price gives me one Blu-ray at a time and unlimited instant viewing which I can use on my Wii, iMac or iPad. I feel I can get more bang for my buck using Netflix. I would still have cable no matter what because I want local news and live TV.

I don't see how the Apple TV is a better value. If I watch about 4 or 5 Blu-ray movies a month and watch several instant Netflix movies and TV shows I get a lot more for my money with Netflix. It would get very expensive to buy and rent all of that content on an Apple TV.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:26 PM   #13
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tv missed the boat when Podcasts were becoming big and looked to be primed to replace traditional tv. A combination of a tv show subscription with free podcasts would have positioned tv to compete with cable.

I've been cable free for 3 years now using that formula but I understand how it doesn't yet work for the mainstream.

The Podcast hype seems to have slowed down due to the difficulty in monetizing the medium but it can be revived by pairing it with an App store. Paying for a Revision3 app for example could monetize the business that now struggles to pay its bills with advertising.

If Apple manages to leverage their LaLa purchase into a streaming service, iPhone, iPod and iPad will be the most obvious beneficiaries but tv could take off as the living room branch.

This would immediately solve the storage problem and would enable the production of a cheaper tv with no onboard storage other than for streaming. A $99 tv + monthly network subscription + podcasts would finally allow this device to enter the mainstream.
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Old Apr 20, 2010, 11:25 PM   #14
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tv missed the boat when Podcasts were becoming big and looked to be primed to replace traditional tv. A combination of a tv show subscription with free podcasts would have positioned tv to compete with cable.
What? Very few people had even heard of podcasts when Apple decided to integrate them into iTunes way back in 2005.

Apple’s iPod, iPhone, Apple TV and iPad are some of the few mainstream devices that integrate podcasts directly at the top-level with other traditional media categories like movies, music and TV shows.

If anything Apple has fueled podcast adoption (both audio and video).

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Originally Posted by ipedro View Post
The Podcast hype seems to have slowed down due to the difficulty in monetizing the medium but it can be revived by pairing it with an App store. Paying for a Revision3 app for example could monetize the business that now struggles to pay its bills with advertising.
You don’t need a Revision 3 app to enjoy their content. Apple integrates it directly into the iTunes Store.

I don’t think you quite understand how podcast networks like Revision 3 work. Revision 3 is anything but struggling. They’re living off fat venture capital money and making revenue off their in-program advertising. If Apple offered an App Store on the Apple TV, Revision 3 would likely choose to offer their app for free anyway.

At one point this year, rumors swirled that they even made a small profit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipedro View Post
If Apple manages to leverage their LaLa purchase into a streaming service, iPhone, iPod and iPad will be the most obvious beneficiaries but tv could take off as the living room branch.
There we agree, but it doesn’t need to stop with cloud streaming. The iPod, iPhone and iPad lack local streaming too.

Apple needs to take the local wireless streaming technology that’s available on the Apple TV through iTunes and port it over to iPod, iPhone and iPad so you don’t need to sync all your data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipedro View Post
This would immediately solve the storage problem and would enable the production of a cheaper tv with no onboard storage other than for streaming. A $99 tv + monthly network subscription + podcasts would finally allow this device to enter the mainstream.
That requires participation from the studios and networks, and right now they’re trying to protect their biggest source of revenue — traditional television distribution.

Last edited by jaw04005; Apr 20, 2010 at 11:36 PM.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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i think it would be cool if they made the apple tv in a lower level gaming console. with all the added interest in the gaming market now using names like nintendo and sony psp when talking about the ipod touch/iphone it makes you wonder.

i think it would be cool adding the app store into the apple tv. then with the ipod touch remote app being able to control games using the accelerometer and touch screen to control the game via wi-fi. and what i mean by lower level i mean the graphics aren't going to match that of gaming consoles like the ps3 but to allow the user the ability to have access to thousands of games at their finger tips.

THIS would be bad ass...
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 12:30 AM   #16
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AppleTV is simply much too expensive for what it offers right now. There are far cheaper alternatives on the market, and it's about the same price as an iPod with the same capacity.

Storage isn't nearly as necessary for the AppleTV, since you can stream. Apple needs to seriously drop the price. Offer a smaller hard drive if needed. Get it to $99-149 (if $149, then 1080p playback).

Otherwise, it'll be a niche product.

The PS3, for example, is $299. It includes a 120 GB hard drive, and plays Blu-ray, in addition to having the AppleTV's streaming capabilities and wider format support.

The XBox 360 is $249, and lacks a hard drive, but matches the streaming capabilities and has a huge gaming library.

Right now, the AppleTV's price point competes against the Playstation 3. And the Playstation 3 obliterates it, matching every feature and also including Blu-ray, 1080p playback, gaming, and in the next update, 3D movie playback.

I bought a PS3 over an AppleTV for streaming, with no regrets.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 02:34 AM   #17
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AppleTV is simply much too expensive for what it offers right now. There are far cheaper alternatives on the market, and it's about the same price as an iPod with the same capacity.

Storage isn't nearly as necessary for the AppleTV, since you can stream. Apple needs to seriously drop the price. Offer a smaller hard drive if needed. Get it to $99-149 (if $149, then 1080p playback).

Otherwise, it'll be a niche product.

The PS3, for example, is $299. It includes a 120 GB hard drive, and plays Blu-ray, in addition to having the AppleTV's streaming capabilities and wider format support.

The XBox 360 is $249, and lacks a hard drive, but matches the streaming capabilities and has a huge gaming library.

Right now, the AppleTV's price point competes against the Playstation 3. And the Playstation 3 obliterates it, matching every feature and also including Blu-ray, 1080p playback, gaming, and in the next update, 3D movie playback.

I bought a PS3 over an AppleTV for streaming, with no regrets.
how are you streaming it?
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 02:58 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by GFLPraxis View Post
AppleTV is simply much too expensive for what it offers right now. There are far cheaper alternatives on the market, and it's about the same price as an iPod with the same capacity.

Storage isn't nearly as necessary for the AppleTV, since you can stream. Apple needs to seriously drop the price. Offer a smaller hard drive if needed. Get it to $99-149 (if $149, then 1080p playback).

Otherwise, it'll be a niche product.

The PS3, for example, is $299. It includes a 120 GB hard drive, and plays Blu-ray, in addition to having the AppleTV's streaming capabilities and wider format support.

The XBox 360 is $249, and lacks a hard drive, but matches the streaming capabilities and has a huge gaming library.

Right now, the AppleTV's price point competes against the Playstation 3. And the Playstation 3 obliterates it, matching every feature and also including Blu-ray, 1080p playback, gaming, and in the next update, 3D movie playback.

I bought a PS3 over an AppleTV for streaming, with no regrets.
I would like to see 1080p playback (and content). The hard drive is not a huge deal. I could see a unit with no hard disk at all. A bit like Airtunes for TV (Perhaps exactly like that). A small $99 device I can put on a couple of TVs for a nice interface to a library that is already in place.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 03:33 AM   #19
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 03:40 AM   #20
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At least they aknowledge its existance. I guess that's a good thing.

It works great for what I need it to do, but needs vary greatly, and the Apple TV isn't suited for a lot of needs.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 04:30 AM   #21
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how are you streaming it?
+1. Surely you have to leave your laptop on, or could you stream from External HDD's connected to an AEBS?
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 06:58 AM   #22
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+1. Surely you have to leave your laptop on, or could you stream from External HDD's connected to an AEBS?
You can stream from an external NAS that supports DNLA streaming, or if you have a PC or Mac always on and the right software installed you can stream from there.

It isn't that uncommon to have a system that you rarely if ever turn off. Most people I know have one.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 07:56 AM   #23
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What's amazing to me is that unit sales are still increasing even though the current platform is three years old now. While Apple may consider this product to still be a "hobby", its likely one of the best selling standalone media extenders (i.e. not including gaming consoles, Tivo, etc). Cook's comment that they will continue to invest in the space is good news to all of us who would like to see the AppleTV continue to grow.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 08:23 AM   #24
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You can stream from an external NAS that supports DNLA streaming, or if you have a PC or Mac always on and the right software installed you can stream from there.

It isn't that uncommon to have a system that you rarely if ever turn off. Most people I know have one.
That's good to know. Presumably it would need to be a dedicated NAS - I couldn't just install some freeware on the HDD's attached to an AEBS I mentioned earlier?

So basically the choice is:

1. playstation streaming from NAS/ Ex HDD's (if poss)
2. Apple TV streaming from NAS/ Mac or playing content synced from these
3. Other.

Since I'm unlikely to be downloading much from the iTunes store, but rather ripping my DVD's to the Hard Drive, I guess it comes down to interface. How the the PS3 interface for managing large media collections? the ATV one looked pretty nice when I saw it...
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 09:43 AM   #25
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My Apple TV connected to my 52" Sony LCD, streaming content from my Buffalo NAS. The Buffalo NAS even has a built in bittorrent client.
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