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Report: Apple developing a Flash alternative

AtHomeBoy_2000

AtHomeBoy_2000

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Feb 3, 2005
879
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AppleInsider-
As Adobe Flash and Microsoft Silverlight duke it out over their plugin-based, HTML-alternative web platforms, Apple is using Gianduia, its new a client-side, standards based framework for Rich Internet Apps, to create production quality online apps for its retail users.

Apple introduced Gianduia last summer at WOWODC (World of WebObjects Developer Conference), an independent event scheduled near the company's own WWDC event in June. It is likely that more information will surface at this year's WOWODC and WWDC events.

Gianduia, named after an Italian hazelnut chocolate, is "essentially is browser-side Cocoa (including CoreData) + WebObjects, written in JavaScript by non-js-haters," according to a tweet by developer Jonathan "Wolf" Rentzsch. "Jaw dropped."

After watching the NDA demo Apple gave for the new framework at WOWODC last year, Rentzch also tweeted, "Blown away by Gianduia. Cappuccino, SproutCore and JavascriptMVC have serious competition. Serious."

SproutCore is the JavaScript framework Apple uses to build the web interface for its desktop-like MobileMe web apps. Cappuccino is another third party JavaScript framework that works as a Cocoa-like API for web apps; it was used to deliver 280Slides, a web app designed to provide most of the functionality of Apple's Keynote desktop application. JavascriptMVC is also an independent open source project used to develop rich apps within JavaScript for web deployment.

Like Cappuccino, Gianduia takes a Cocoa-inspired name (Cocoa is itself a Java-inspired name) to describe its role as a way for Cocoa developers to bring their skills to rich online applications built using web standards, with no need for a proprietary web plugin like Flash or Silverlight.
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thejadedmonkey

thejadedmonkey

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May 28, 2005
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I feel like if people confuse "a client-side, standards-based framework for rich Internet apps." with Flash, they have no knowledge of what Flash is. No offense to anyone, but Flash is far from a simple framework. Perhaps with the introduction of HTML 5, it will become possible, but as of now, there is no open standard that I know of that would allow a game like Farmville to be created.

I read the article, I feel like this is CNet looking for page-views. :(
 
AtHomeBoy_2000

AtHomeBoy_2000

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Leo Laporte mentioned this on TWiT.tv a few minutes ago and he thinks it's probably a framework where you write in Objective-C then the Gianduia translates into HTML5 and JavaScript.
 
thejadedmonkey

thejadedmonkey

macrumors G3
May 28, 2005
9,183
3,343
Pennsylvania
AtHomeBoy_2000 said:
Leo Laporte mentioned this on TWiT.tv a few minutes ago and he thinks it's probably a framework where you write in Objective-C then the Gianduia translates into HTML5 and JavaScript.
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That would be very interesting. Especially because objective-C can write very large programs, I'm interested in how JS can handle it all.

But still, very interesting. And very scary, if Apple decides to release a GUI program like Flash CS for writing it.
 
mkrishnan

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
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Grand Rapids, MI, USA
thejadedmonkey said:
But still, very interesting. And very scary, if Apple decides to release a GUI program like Flash CS for writing it.
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I would think Apple would just roll this into XCode if they do it, but who knows? It will be interesting to see how all the gaps in the "rich web content" puzzle get filled in in the next few years....
 
neiltc13

neiltc13

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2006
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I'm just going to copy and paste this comment from the AppleInsider topic about the same thing here:

First the headline implies that Apple is developing some kind of Flash alternative. This has nothing to do with Flash and isn't being developed for market. As the article states, this was shown almost a year ago. Gianduia is just the codename of one of the five or so internal JavaScript frameworks that Apple has created to support some of the applications they're building. Apple employs Cocoa developers, so it advantageous for them to have web frameworks that mimic Cocoa frameworks.

WebGL (based on OpenGL ES) is a very deep API and I don't expect most web developers will pick it up any time soon. It's not really suited to just including a few animations on a page but rather providing a full shader-based, graphics programming pipeline. It'll be helpful for doing things like scientific visualizations or certain kinds of games. For the kinds of animations Flash is mostly used for, most benchmarks show that Canvas+JavaScript is more than performant. And it'll only get faster.

Anyway, my point is that AI is trying to position this as some kind of Flash alternative possibly desktop tool people can use to create Flash-like content and that may be released later this year. It's not — it's a rich application JavaScript framework they've used internally and might possibly be open sourced for others to use like SproutCore. Programming essentially in Objective-C patterns with Cocoa-like API's while writing JavaScript is not going to appeal to the Flash programming crowd.
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FWIW, I would like to add that sites like AppleInsider recycle these stories all the time to put forward their own fanboy arguments. There's no new information here and as has been pointed out the two are loosely related at best. The actions of the administrators of sites like these are one of the reasons they have such a bad name.
 
nuckinfutz

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
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406
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neiltc13 said:
I'm just going to copy and paste this comment from the AppleInsider topic about the same thing here:

FWIW, I would like to add that sites like AppleInsider recycle these stories all the time to put forward their own fanboy arguments. There's no new information here and as has been pointed out the two are loosely related at best. The actions of the administrators of sites like these are one of the reasons they have such a bad name.
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Yet you feel content to quote a response from the Appleinsider forums to bolster your point.

You should have just left it at the quote and not infused your post with nonsensical ranting about fanboys and bad names. It's ironic that you speak about such things considering the plethora of post from you on these boards that are devoid of logical thinking and introspection.

Come up with something original and interesting and then perhaps your dismissive "fanboy" comments will carry weight.
 
neiltc13

neiltc13

macrumors 68040
May 27, 2006
3,126
19
nuckinfutz said:
Yet you feel content to quote a response from the Appleinsider forums to bolster your point.

You should have just left it at the quote and not infused your post with nonsensical ranting about fanboys and bad names. It's ironic that you speak about such things considering the plethora of post from you on these boards that are devoid of logical thinking and introspection.

Come up with something original and interesting and then perhaps your dismissive "fanboy" comments will carry weight.
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AI's editors do this frequently though, and it's frustrating to see content like this make its way here and to other sites. Regularly posting 'controversial' stories is clearly one of the ways they gain traffic to their site - just look at how many comments that article has compared to the stories with more accurate headlines.
 
nuckinfutz

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,539
406
Middle Earth
neiltc13 said:
AI's editors do this frequently though, and it's frustrating to see content like this make its way here and to other sites. Regularly posting 'controversial' stories is clearly one of the ways they gain traffic to their site - just look at how many comments that article has compared to the stories with more accurate headlines.
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I agree that link baiting is far too rampant across the net. I guess though when your money comes from advertising no story is truly too awful if it brings in page views.

Sorry for my tone. I know we've have our disagreements in the past but I shouldn't be letting my crappy day make me vent on you. I like balanced articles as well or I don't get as much as I can from them. Time to step away from this computer and get some fresh air.

All the best.
 
decksnap

decksnap

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2003
3,075
84
Well even though this is completely misleading...

the timing is ripe for Apple to create a professional app that can generate many of the things Flash used to be used for by designers and developers - in html/js.

Adobe will be creating such an app. If Apple could put one out now they have a real opportunity in the creative community.
 
RawBert

RawBert

macrumors 68000
Jan 19, 2010
1,729
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North Hollywood, CA
If Apple actually releases an alternate Flash program to the public, there's gonna be some drama. :eek: So I hope it happens.

But just imagine how much easier to use Apple's version might be in comparison to Flash.
 
ravenvii

ravenvii

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Mar 17, 2004
7,585
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Melenkurion Skyweir
RawBert said:
If Apple actually releases an alternate Flash program to the public, there's gonna be some drama. :eek: So I hope it happens.

But just imagine how much easier to use Apple's version might be in comparison to Flash.
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If Apple releases a development Kit for rich web applications using web standards, I would say that's what Adobe should've done last year. But alas, we move on. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

As for whether or not Apple will make a true alternative to Flash (not a web standards-based one) I would call them greedy idiots, to be frank. Fighting against Flash to promote web standards is one thing, but fighting them only to turn around and release an alternative is just shady and Will shake many people's faith in them.

If Apple wants to adopt something akin to Flash I actually think they should adopt Silverlight. It's a robust platform with much more powerful features than Flash, and much more efficient.
 
A

awmazz

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Jul 4, 2007
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Question, so what did Apple use to create their interactive iAd examples? And what will the advertising industry use to create future iAds?
 
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