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As my location changes. So does my antenna issue.

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shawntkeating

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 3, 2010
86
0
NJ
I have been replicating the issue where you touch the left antenna line and the signal drops to nothing.

Iv been able to do this over and over again while at my house..

But...

Today I went to the beach and while sitting out on the sand I tested the issue again...

I COULD NOT GET THE PHONE TO REPEAT THE ISSUE!!!


People should try this and report there findings.


EDIT:

More findings.

I tried this again today in another couple locations.

The results are consistent with my initial discovery.

Depending on where I am (what towers, how close) I am seeing that the reception issue varies greatly.

Some areas It drops to nothing, others I cant do it at all and other areas it drops only a couple.

I encourage people to test this at different places and report your findings.



****I am not trying to make an excuse for the problem. I am just trying to see if this is PART of the problem.****
 
A

admanimal

macrumors 68040
Apr 22, 2005
3,531
2
Different locations have different signal qualities. It's obviously better at the beach than your house, so you don't lose any bars even though the actual db level of the phone is probably dropping.
 
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shawntkeating

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 3, 2010
86
0
NJ
I tried this again today in another couple locations.

The results are consistent with my initial discovery.

Depending on where I am (what towers, how close) I am seeing that the reception issue varies greatly.

Some areas It drops to nothing, others I cant do it at all and other areas it drops only a couple.
 
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Sean006

macrumors 6502a
Dec 23, 2008
506
170
Yes I can confirm this also. Outside it never happens but inside my house yes

I have also noticed that i never go down to no service. lowest is one bar.
 
kas23

kas23

macrumors 603
Oct 28, 2007
5,629
288
shawntkeating said:
I have been replicating the issue where you touch the left antenna line and the signal drops to nothing.

Iv been able to do this over and over again while at my house..

But...

Today I went to the beach and while sitting out on the sand I tested the issue again...



I COULD NOT GET THE PHONE TO REPEATE THE ISSUE!!!


I encourage people to test this at different places and report your findings.
Click to expand...

This is completely accurate. My phone will act differently in different locations. The problem is with driving. I don't know where the poor signal areas are and whether I should be holding my phone in an Apple-approved manner.
 
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ashVID

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2007
239
0
Same here, my office has 3-4 bars and normal holding causes it to drop to 1-2 but no effect on the call. At home, 5 bars goes to 1 and the other party cannot hear me.




ash =o)
 
D

Dokk

macrumors regular
Jun 20, 2010
130
22
IA, TX ... I never know
Sean006 said:
Yes I can confirm this also. Outside it never happens but inside my house yes

I have also noticed that i never go down to no service. lowest is one bar.
Click to expand...

Yup -- I was going to post almost exactly as you did. Another thing I notice is that when it *does* drop down (if I keep holding it and wait), the bars will usually eventually go back up.

This makes me wonder if the report up on Appleinsider makes even more sense than I originally thought. Here's how I'm putting it together in my head.

1. hardware design is flawed -- causes disruptions on particular frequencies (but all designs allow for disruptions in some way)

2. the phone's software is supposed to adjust the frequency to avoid signal drop (and most phones are good at doing this)

3. but "because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly" signal is dropping, sometimes to nothing

4. as such, a software fix isn't merely a band-aid; it's fixes the actual cause of the dropped signal (miscalibration, not hardware that's any more flawed than any other phone)

I'm not an engineer or trying to make excuses for Apple; but all that seems to make good sense to me.
 
Y

youngplaya0228

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2008
225
0
Texas
Dokk said:
Yup -- I was going to post almost exactly as you did. Another thing I notice is that when it *does* drop down (if I keep holding it and wait), the bars will usually eventually go back up.

This makes me wonder if the report up on Appleinsider makes even more sense than I originally thought. Here's how I'm putting it together in my head.

1. hardware design is flawed -- causes disruptions on particular frequencies (but all designs allow for disruptions in some way)

2. the phone's software is supposed to adjust the frequency to avoid signal drop (and most phones are good at doing this)

3. but "because the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly" signal is dropping, sometimes to nothing

4. as such, a software fix isn't merely a band-aid; it's fixes the actual cause of the dropped signal (miscalibration, not hardware that's any more flawed than any other phone)

I'm not an engineer or trying to make excuses for Apple; but all that seems to make good sense to me.
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me too (though i'm no electrical engineer either).
 
I

iPhonedHome

macrumors 6502
Jun 10, 2008
306
0
Dallas
I would love to go to the beach and give it a try. Hook a brotha up! ;)

Seriously I will give a try in a bit when I go to the store.
 
R

RC83

macrumors 6502
Jun 15, 2010
259
0
Bay Area, CA
this also points to a software/low signal issue... Not Hardware.. If it was hardware it would consistently lose signal wherever you are...
 
br0adband

br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
As noted in the post linked in my sig, I'm within a few hundred feet of a cell site tower, almost the same height actually, and totally unobstructed in terms of the signal path and I can still basically cause the iPhone to lose service totally (as verified by a Pandora audio stream that cuts out and dies) with my fingertip.

Ain't no other cell phone I've ever used that can make that claim...

"So magical, you can disconnect calls with a finger and without even touching the display!" ;)
 
CubeHacker

CubeHacker

macrumors 65816
Apr 22, 2003
1,243
251
I've said this one and i'll say it again - you CANNOT use the number of bars to determine if your phone is losing signal. The only way to correctly do this is to get the signal level readings in dB off the phone itself, which can only be done if the phone is jailbroken.
 
br0adband

br0adband

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2006
933
69
CubeHacker said:
I've said this one and i'll say it again - you CANNOT use the number of bars to determine if your phone is losing signal. The only way to correctly do this is to get the signal level readings in dB off the phone itself, which can only be done if the phone is jailbroken.
Click to expand...

Uhmmm... using a streaming audio app like Pandora is a good way to determine issues as well. And as noted in this video the browser is another way to see just how "bad" this issue can be for so many of us:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6oflC4qo8M

That video is arguably the best demonstration of what can and does happen when the signal degrades, and I don't even have to do that "Vulcan Death Grip" either - I can get the same results with the fingertip on the seam.
 
D

dmelgar

macrumors 68000
Apr 29, 2005
1,587
160
youngplaya0228 said:
Makes sense to me too (though i'm no electrical engineer either).
Click to expand...

I am an electrical engineer and this doesn't make sense to me. I can't immediately imagine how software can recalibrate and adjust the frequency or some such thing. Doesn't mean they can't figure out a way depending on the hardware design, but its not immediately obvious how software could remotely affect an antenna who's characteristics have been altered by someone touching it.
 
S

shawntkeating

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 3, 2010
86
0
NJ
RC83 said:
this also points to a software/low signal issue... Not Hardware.. If it was hardware it would consistently lose signal wherever you are...
Click to expand...



Yes, exactly.


Lets look at the facts.


It is already well known ALL phones have this design flaw of touch interference with the signal.

Phone engineers have to counter this fundamental flaw in some way.

And so most phones fiqure out a way to handle this good enough.


BUT

Then comes the iPhone 4.

It is not tested as a prototype in this magnitude

Thus

The problem is not noticed OR it is only fixed to a degree.

Phone is release and the variables increase dramatically.

Now we shall see if the engineers can properly address this fundamental design flaw of all phones on the iPhone 4.



One thing I do not want to see happen is a illusion pulled over our eyes by software.

I am not saying it is not fixable through software. I am saying it needs to be fixed correctly.
 
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Dr Kevorkian94

macrumors 68020
Jun 9, 2009
2,175
76
SI, NY
i figured this out when the problem first presented itself (no offense). if u live in an area where the signal is strong no matter what u do the signal will only be affected a little or not at all, but if u live where the signal is not so good then u do experience the problem. This is why some are having problems and some are not.
 
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youngplaya0228

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2008
225
0
Texas
dmelgar said:
I am an electrical engineer and this doesn't make sense to me. I can't immediately imagine how software can recalibrate and adjust the frequency or some such thing. Doesn't mean they can't figure out a way depending on the hardware design, but its not immediately obvious how software could remotely affect an antenna who's characteristics have been altered by someone touching it.
Click to expand...
Didn't they say that once the best signal has been compromised, there is software that automatically adjusts the signal to the next best thing? Thought that the software problem had something to do with dropping down to the next best signal. Again i'm no electrical engineer.
 
D

Dr Kevorkian94

macrumors 68020
Jun 9, 2009
2,175
76
SI, NY
youngplaya0228 said:
Didn't they say that once the best signal has been compromised, there is software that automatically adjusts the signal to the next best thing? Thought that the software problem had something to do with dropping down to the next best signal. Again i'm no electrical engineer.
Click to expand...

u are right its not software its hardware and the signal strength depending on where u live read my post above.
 
P

pcorrado

macrumors 6502
May 21, 2008
421
162
Chicago, IL
br0adband said:
As noted in the post linked in my sig, I'm within a few hundred feet of a cell site tower, almost the same height actually, and totally unobstructed in terms of the signal path and I can still basically cause the iPhone to lose service totally (as verified by a Pandora audio stream that cuts out and dies) with my fingertip.

Ain't no other cell phone I've ever used that can make that claim...

"So magical, you can disconnect calls with a finger and without even touching the display!" ;)
Click to expand...

Now this but of information makes the whole situation a bit more interesting to me. I like have the others in this forum where I only seem to have the problem in weak signal areas - and also have the bars recover as well. Makes me wonder, based on your post, if there are not two separate issue involved here? A software issue as described on Appleinsider and perhaps a hardware issue that is affecting a some of the phones - I can say that there is a tower neat where my sister lives (a few hundred away) and I could not replicate this issue, however, in my home I can do it every time (per att - currently the two closest towers to me are down because they were damaged during a storm this week)
 
D

dmelgar

macrumors 68000
Apr 29, 2005
1,587
160
youngplaya0228 said:
Didn't they say that once the best signal has been compromised, there is software that automatically adjusts the signal to the next best thing? Thought that the software problem had something to do with dropping down to the next best signal. Again i'm no electrical engineer.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have heard that, which is why I leave open the possibility. I assume they're referring more to channels which are pretty much running a very close to the same frequency. Touching an antenna like this can radically change its characteristics and affect all close frequencies.

That said, the iPhone supports a bunch of different frequencies to handle different carriers around the world. The behavior could be significantly different depending on the frequency used by the carrier. Its not typically something the phone can choose.
It supports UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz)
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz).

Would be nice to know what frequencies are being used by those who have and don't have the problem.
 
S

shawntkeating

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 3, 2010
86
0
NJ
dmelgar said:
Yes, I have heard that, which is why I leave open the possibility. I assume they're referring more to channels which are pretty much running a very close to the same frequency. Touching an antenna like this can radically change its characteristics and affect all close frequencies.

That said, the iPhone supports a bunch of different frequencies to handle different carriers around the world. The behavior could be significantly different depending on the frequency used by the carrier. Its not typically something the phone can choose.
It supports UMTS/HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz)
GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz).

Would be nice to know what frequencies are being used by those who have and don't have the problem.
Click to expand...


I wonder if there is any app that can show this data??? Anyones input is welcome.
 
G

Gryzor

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2010
758
326
Well, the answer is simple. Move to the beach or don't hold your phone a certain way...
 
TMar

TMar

macrumors 68000
Jul 20, 2008
1,679
1
Ky
So you say if I cover my ears and stand far way from a loud speaker I stand a better chance of not being able to hear it? But if I'm closer to it the possibility of that happening goes down. Expect the Nobel Prise for your astounding theory of location location location.
 
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shawntkeating

macrumors member
Original poster
Jun 3, 2010
86
0
NJ
TMar said:
So you say if I cover my ears and stand far way from a loud speaker I stand a better chance of not being able to hear it? But if I'm closer to it the possibility of that happening goes down. Expect the Nobel Prise for your astounding theory of location location location.
Click to expand...


I am reading more and more reports of location affecting peoples ability to replicate the problem consistently.
 
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