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Police Use of Stun Guns on Children Riles Parents

MacNut

MacNut

macrumors Core
Original poster
Jan 4, 2002
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Officers Taser Boy, 6, and Girl, 12

MIAMI (Nov. 13) - Miami-Dade police have acknowledged using a stun gun on a second youngster just weeks after subduing a 55-pound first-grader with a 50,000-volt shock.

In the second instance, a 15-year-veteran officer used his Taser to immobilize a 12-year-old girl who was playing hooky from school.

Police Director Bobby Parker defended the decision to shock the 6-year-old boy on Oct. 20 because he was threatening to injure himself with a shard of glass he was holding, but he said Friday that he could not defend the decision to shock the fleeing girl, who was apparently drunk.

According to the incident report, officer William Nelson responded to a complaint that children were swimming in a pool, drinking alcohol and smoking cigars about 11 a.m. on Nov. 5.

Nelson said he noticed the girl was intoxicated and told her to get dressed so he could take her back to school.

"While walking the girl to the police car, she took off running through the parking lot," Nelson wrote in his report.

Nelson, 38, said he chased her and yelled several times for her to stop. Nelson said he pulled out the Taser and fired when the girl began to run into traffic. The electric probes hit the girl in the neck and lower back, immobilizing her with 50,000 volts.

Nelson said he fired "for my safety along with the girl's safety." Paramedics treated the girl, who went home with her mother.

Parker said department policy permits officers to use the Taser to apprehend someone, but he said he expected his officers to use better judgment, especially when police had no plans to arrest someone playing hooky.

The first incident had already exposed the department to more criticism for its use of Tasers, which it has begun distributing in greater numbers to officers.

"The police could have handled this better," said the 6-year-old boy's mother, Kathy Rojas. "They did not have to shoot him."

Parker said that, in light of the disclosure of the second incident, the department will review its policy.
 
I think the officer did the right thing in both cases. The 6 year old boy was pretty much about to commit suicide(I would presume he was going to cut himself in the neck or wrist). Due to lack of info I don't know. All depends where the boy was going to injure himself. The girl was drunk, and she was running into on coming traffic. I would rather have my daughter be shocked then have her be the next human pancake.
 
it's a sad day when a 12 year old girl can fight off and out run a cop.

it was also none of the cops business to be there in the first place, the children were on their property, a phone call from a neighbor does not warrant him going on to their property. the most he could've done legally...knock on their front door. if he had reasonable evidence of a break in, etc. he could've proceeded with full authority...but $10 this guy was just brain dead.

the 6 year old i can agree with...though 50,000 volts is a bit of overkill for a 6 year old (although i've been hit with a 300,000 volt stun gun on the back of my calf and it didn't do anything to me, except make me give the kid a black eye :p) 50,000 volts could cause damage depending on the size of his body (i'm 200 lbs. so it kind of distributes those volts a bit better :p, or maybe the batteries were low).
 
Brian, what kills is amperage. The high voltage is to disrupt the electrical signals in your body. Tasers have 162mA of current. Voltage (joules) equals the product of current (amps) and resistance (ohms). Tasers (and other stun guns) must therefore have high resistance in order to create a high voltage with extremely low current. It has nothing to do with body size, but instead with the distance between the two points. Tasers can actually work without touching the skin, but only clothing. The high voltage across the points creates a field that disrupts electromagnetic signals in the body, causing loss of muscular control.
 
quagmire said:
I think the officer did the right thing in both cases. The 6 year old boy was pretty much about to commit suicide(I would presume he was going to cut himself in the neck or wrist). Due to lack of info I don't know. All depends where the boy was going to injure himself. The girl was drunk, and she was running into on coming traffic. I would rather have my daughter be shocked then have her be the next human pancake.
Click to expand...

I read that the six year old was threatening to cut himself on the leg. I agree that he had to be stopped, and quickly, but these cops couldn't think of anything better than a taser?

As for the girl, I think it's pretty sad that a 38 year old veteran officer couldn't catch a drunk, 11 year old girl. But that said, if she was about to get hit by a car, then stunning her was the way to go.

Finally, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the most disturbing thing in both of these cases (to me, anyway). Why was a 6 year old threatening to kill himself, and an 11 year old swimming drunk while cutting school? These are obviously two very troubled children!
 
QCassidy352 said:
I read that the six year old was threatening to cut himself on the leg. I agree that he had to be stopped, and quickly, but these cops couldn't think of anything better than a taser?
Click to expand...

Here are other ways he could of done it.

A. take out gun and shoot him. Ok, that is totally the last resort.

B. Bean bag gun. Can break the boys ribs.

C. take out club and club him. Once again can cause injury to the boys small body.

D. Tackle the boy. The average 6 year old boy weighs around 80 lbs or so. We have a 200 lb cop. COP crushes boy and possibly making the glass the boy was holding go into the cop or the boy.

All of those choices can/will injure/kill the boy. Tasering him was the best choice.
 
QCassidy352 said:
I read that the six year old was threatening to cut himself on the leg. I agree that he had to be stopped, and quickly, but these cops couldn't think of anything better than a taser?
Click to expand...

I am agree, the boy can say anything but feeling something cutting your own your leg is a different experience, we all had some sort of episode when we are growing up, too much energy and too much stress as a child.

I am not agree at all in using the guns, it is a cheap use of technology in place of USING YOUR BRAIN.

When I was in New York I went to some social workers because of my adaptaion process to the culture and all of them sent me antidepression pills!!! in place of actually talking to me and go over my issues for real.

That is actually a problem with the north american culture in general, everything is resolved by technology in place of humman caring. "If your child is stressed out give him this pill". And if you flirt with a girl in the office is sexual harrasment too, what is going on????

I think the officer should receive an electrical shock so he can think things over better next time.
 
mymemory said:
I am agree, the boy can say anything but feeling something cutting your own your leg is a different experience, we all had some sort of episode when we are growing up, too much energy and too much stress as a child.

I am not agree at all in using the guns, it is a cheap use of technology in place of USING YOUR BRAIN.

When I was in New York I went to some social workers because of my adaptaion process to the culture and all of them sent me antidepression pills!!! in place of actually talking to me and go over my issues for real.

That is actually a problem with the north american culture in general, everything is resolved by technology in place of humman caring. "If your child is stressed out give him this pill". And if you flirt with a girl in the office is sexual harrasment too, what is going on????

I think the officer should receive an electrical shock so he can think things over better next time.
Click to expand...


I agree with you on the whole unless this kid had the knife on his neck then there is no reason to shock him. On the other hand he had already cut himself when the cop got to him. As for the girl I think the cop did the right thing although if he had be been better prepared he wouldn't have to worry about her running away.
 
This is why under all of my clothes I wear a small, but firm layer of hardened plastic.

Yeah thats right cops, keep hitting me with your taser, uh huh, really hurts.




But seriously, the guy couldn't take down a 12 year old running away from him, he needed to shock her?


:confused:


Tasers hurt, and some have led to deaths in people with weak heart... bad idea cops.


Just like other non-lethal means, these can hurt you bad. (see rubber bullets flying at speeds faster then regular bullets)
 
The parents are somewhat to blame in those cases. Children should be taught to respect the lawful order of a policeman. It was being done for the safety of the child and the general public. These incidents are occurring because of disrespect of police. That didn't happen when I was a youngster.
 
The cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't. The cop would've been blamed if the kid sliced himself or the other one ran into traffic and got killed. But the cop is criticized anyway for zapping the little punks. Also, the parents should be shocked with a tazer. Little kids skipping school, drinking, smoking, running from cops; whatever happened to being responsible and keeping track of your kids? People need to stop blaming the cops and the rest of society for their shi**ty parenting skills.
 
A few points about tasers.
1. No one has been proven to die by use of taser. While several people have died shortly after the use of a taser, it has not been determined if pre-existing conditions caused their deaths. This obviously requires a serious investigation.
2. Many police departments (if not all) require that cops who will be using tasers be tased themselves. This is to ensure cops know exactly what their target is undergoing.
3. mrmacman, as i understand, that layer of plastic won't protect you. :D The taser works just by having the points in close proximity to you and each other. If they catch in your clothing, then you're going to be having some fun.
 
quagmire said:
Here are other ways he could of done it.

A. take out gun and shoot him. Ok, that is totally the last resort.

B. Bean bag gun. Can break the boys ribs.

C. take out club and club him. Once again can cause injury to the boys small body.

D. Tackle the boy. The average 6 year old boy weighs around 80 lbs or so. We have a 200 lb cop. COP crushes boy and possibly making the glass the boy was holding go into the cop or the boy.

All of those choices can/will injure/kill the boy. Tasering him was the best choice.
Click to expand...

Obviously your first 3 are as bad or worse than the taser. But I think physically grabbing/restraining him would have worked. Of course, not being there, it's hard to be certain of exactly what was happening...
 
wdlove said:
The parents are somewhat to blame in those cases. Children should be taught to respect the lawful order of a policeman. It was being done for the safety of the child and the general public. These incidents are occurring because of disrespect of police. That didn't happen when I was a youngster.
Click to expand...

Do not worry, they got the message loud and clear :rolleyes:
 
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