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Old Nov 16, 2004, 03:48 PM   #1
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File Problems On The Mac: It's A Mess In There


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Link: File Problems On The Mac: It\'s A Mess In There
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 04:49 PM   #2
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i thought spotlight would have helped out with this problem, but i was apparently wrong
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:07 PM   #3
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... erm ... use Finder.

If the writer's office is as junky as she says her disk is ... then I'm surprised she can find her keyboard.

Organise from the outset, or be prepared to do a lot of work later.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:25 PM   #4
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I agree that files can often be very spread out and not centralized and organized enough, but that's mostly a result of my own laziness over any deficiency in computer software. Complaining about GB loops not being in the music folder? I don't want them there. I don't NEED a back-up of the loops, if something goes wrong, I'll re-install off of the disc!
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:33 PM   #5
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What's with this guy? He's blaming Apple for not cleaning up his own mess. Jeez, man, make folders if you want folders and save the docs where you want them. A drag and drop utility to magically move your document somewhere else on your harddrive sounds WORSE. Finder's great at allowing you to organize files, but it'll never know how to do it for you, I doubt. Hell, use quicksilver, then it doesn't even matter.

Quote:
And, a couple of clicks should be all that’s required to generate a report about which file is where
What a dumb idea. How about "$ find ~"

Why can't an application's support files go in Application Support? Does he prefer one large folder?

Quote:
There’s Fonts for everyone, and Fonts for just me.
Yep! That's right! And isn't it amazing that it requires two folders to do so? That's not a mess.

- Garageband loops are not music.
- There is no "everyone" thing for Mail, because the system doesn't recieve e-mail, only users do
- Who even goes into the Preferences folder other than the system. Who cares if the filenames are in Braille.

This guy needs to use a Windows machine for like a week or two. Then, ask him where, for example, internet explorer is installed, or where it's bookmarks are. Or ask him to complain about the strange naming convention of .DLL's in Windows.

What a tard.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mainstreetmark
What's with this guy? He's blaming Apple for not cleaning up his own mess. Jeez, man, make folders if you want folders and save the docs where you want them. A drag and drop utility to magically move your document somewhere else on your harddrive sounds WORSE. Finder's great at allowing you to organize files, but it'll never know how to do it for you, I doubt. Hell, use quicksilver, then it doesn't even matter.


What a dumb idea. How about "$ find ~"

Why can't an application's support files go in Application Support? Does he prefer one large folder?



Yep! That's right! And isn't it amazing that it requires two folders to do so? That's not a mess.

- Garageband loops are not music.
- There is no "everyone" thing for Mail, because the system doesn't recieve e-mail, only users do
- Who even goes into the Preferences folder other than the system. Who cares if the filenames are in Braille.

This guy needs to use a Windows machine for like a week or two. Then, ask him where, for example, internet explorer is installed, or where it's bookmarks are. Or ask him to complain about the strange naming convention of .DLL's in Windows.

What a tard.
Sometimes I need to go in the Preferences folder to trash one or more corrupt .plist files because one of my applications is misbehaving. I'm sure that's what "Tera Patricks" is referring to.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:53 PM   #7
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Is it me or is the gal making a mountain out of a mole hill? In general, I don't find articles on her site to be very informed.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 05:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveL
Is it me or is the gal making a mountain out of a mole hill? In general, I don't find articles on her site to be very informed.
In general, I agree with you on both points. However, I still read the articles because I find them interesting.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 06:08 PM   #9
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during the days (damn if i am wrong) of os9, if you delete a folder (say IE) the whole program is deleted.

now, one has to delete the program in the applications folder. then do a search for "explorer" and delete the other IE files which are somewhere in your system.

i wish really deleting a program would be as simple as that again.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89
In general, I agree with you on both points. However,
I still read the articles because I find them interesting.
I too read her articles most times, but this article was silly enough, that i chose not to advance to the next page. It seems to me she was complaining about nothing, you computer is only as organized as you want to keep it. Case and Point.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 06:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redAPPLE
during the days (damn if i am wrong) of os9, if you delete a folder (say IE) the whole program is deleted.

now, one has to delete the program in the applications folder. then do a search for "explorer" and delete the other IE files which are somewhere in your system.

i wish really deleting a program would be as simple as that again.
Actually, neither point is strictly true.

In Mac OS 9, programs sometimes installed extensions and created other files outside of their program folder. The extensions definitely need to be removed, but the preference files are harmless.

In Mac OS X, programs often create stuff in Application Support as well as preference files, but it won't do any harm to leave it there and just delete the program file in Applications, just like in Mac OS 9. If a program has an uninstaller, using the uninstaller is strongly encouraged - the same holds true in Mac OS 9.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 06:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharewaredemon
I too read her articles most times, but this article was silly enough, that i chose not to advance to the next page. It seems to me she was complaining about nothing, you computer is only as organized as you want to keep it. Case and Point.
Totally agree, it seems she wants no effort in keeping organized. She probably has a maid for her house and needs one for her computer files.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 07:37 PM   #13
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I'd like something to help organize my files, too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnulty
Totally agree, it seems she wants no effort in keeping organized. She probably has a maid for her house and needs one for her computer files.
Hmmm. I'd like a maid for my house. That'd be great. Come to think of it, getting a maid for my Mac's files would be nifty. Hey, the hiring process alone would kill me.

All seriousness aside, there's a very good point in there. If the computer is here to make our lives a bit more productive and organized and efficient, then there should be a way that it helps organize files. While I agree that a good folder structure in the Documents folder is an excellent start, it's still extra effort on the user's part to 1) organize appropriately, 2) maintain organization as new files are added.

Those of you who simply toss out cute and sassy criticism of anyone with a problem, and sense enough to articulate it, are forgetting something valuable. Necessity is the mother of invention. It seems to me that someone in the Mac developer community might consider developing a simple "file organization" application that does what the author** suggests-- make it easy to set up a file organization in the Documents folder, and make it easier to maintain over time.

As it is now, mine usually has a couple dozen folders, each loaded with files and other folders. After awhile, I forget where things are and need to clean up the mess. Kayhill's suggestion is a good one and would improve the Mac's experience and usefulness.

In particular, I like the "drag and drop" idea. Think about it. That's sweet. I do something similar to that now by putting select folders in the left column of the Finder, then simply dragging and dropping files where they should go. But that could be developed to be MUCH easier.

** author-- this just shows how much attention some MB readers pay to articles on Mac and news sites. The "she" some of you refer to has a name-- "Alex" Kayhill.

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Old Nov 16, 2004, 08:08 PM   #14
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This is a personal problem, not an apple one.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 08:35 PM   #15
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Not so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macridah
This is a personal problem, not an apple one.
Not so... I got the same problem and I'm not blaming Apple or the writer, but want a solution nonetheless. There are too many files scattered all over, even in the Documents folder. I don't think anyone is blaming Apple for organizational issues but its a legitimate problem with suggested solutions. How does it get to be a "personal problem?" Apple provides software to entertain, inform, improve efficiency and productivity on the computer, and to sell more Macs. While new search technology might help out finding files on the hard drive, it won't do much for the organization of files. It isn't just a user issue, either. If that were the case there'd be no need for a spell checker, right? "Hey, get a dictionary and learn to spell, fool!" I'd go for something intuitive that stores and organizes other files and presents them in an iTunes/iPhoto-like manner. And, no, it ain't the Finder. I keep recent files on the Desktop and then, when it gets messy, move them to the Documents folder, sometimes not in the correct folder. Most real desktops are about the same. We keep papers, files, and stuff there, then when the pain hits a certain threshhold, move them, file them, stack them, put them away. A solution to helping out with the organization and handling of Desktop and Document files would be worthwhile. Set up a file organization, then drag and drop, and give me a record of what went where and when.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 09:00 PM   #16
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this is definately a user issue

the sole purpose of the operating system is to provide the user with the tools required to get a given job acomplished.

which, has been done. theres the application folder for programs
the system folder for system files
a search feature to find things out of imediate site (improved in tiger)

and the ability to create folders where ever youd like, link them to the dock, or the side bar in finder

anything more than that is up to the discretion of the user and should not be addressed by the OS.

its out of luck and flashyness that we have a music, movies and documents folder

my solution to to many folders is simple
i create a folder on the hard drive
drag it to the side bar in finder
and work out of that

i have folders for websites, business docs, web site images, etc... works nicely

only thing i do have a problem with, which is not the fault of the OS, but myself or adobe is, anything i do in photoshop will allways go into my business images folder, and the file save as or save to web folder does not remember that folder is there when i launch the program fresh everyday.

once i've saved a file to it, it remembers, but after closing and re-opening it does - as said, im sure its a preference somewhere i have just over looked

but, these are personal organazational issues, not things the OS should be responsible for.

just a view
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 09:03 PM   #17
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When Tiger comes out, I'm going to dump all my files in one single directory, and then use smart folders to access them.

I agree with the comments about /System/Library by the way. I am totally against shared libraries, I think all .apps should be fully self-contained. There is the .app and there is it's settings file in your home dir, and that's it.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 09:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_keyboard
When Tiger comes out, I'm going to dump all my files in one single directory, and then use smart folders to access them.

I agree with the comments about /System/Library by the way. I am totally against shared libraries, I think all .apps should be fully self-contained. There is the .app and there is it's settings file in your home dir, and that's it.
Well, when Tiger comes out, I'm going to leave my directory structure as it is now, and use smart folders where it makes sense to use them.

Regarding /System/Library...
That directory shouldn't be modified by user applications anyway. In fact, rumor has it that Tiger will include a utility to help keep your /System/Library pristine.

As far as shared libraries go...
I support the shared library concept - I use it in my own programs (on all platforms). I just think that .apps need to be better behaved when it comes to dumping .bundles and .frameworks all over the place.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 09:21 PM   #19
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for the most part spotlight and smart folder searches (which can be saved) will alleviate, if not eliminate this problem. depending on your level of organizational obsession, it will be possible to throw most all your documents in the documents folder and either create on the fly searches for those times when you have a one off request, or save a smart folder for permanent organization. spotlight is far from a panacea, you won't be able to eliminate regular folders any time soon, but it goes a long way towards simplifying the process of storing, sorting, filing and finding your files.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 09:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrldwzrd89
As far as shared libraries go...
I support the shared library concept - I use it in my own programs (on all platforms). I just think that .apps need to be better behaved when it comes to dumping .bundles and .frameworks all over the place.
When I say I'm against shared libs, I am simply talking about from a deployment perspective. One copy in mem doesn't mean you have to have only one copy on disk. All .apps should be self-contained, with no central Frameworks dir.
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 10:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_keyboard
When I say I'm against shared libs, I am simply talking about from a deployment perspective. One copy in mem doesn't mean you have to have only one copy on disk. All .apps should be self-contained, with no central Frameworks dir.
OK, so lets talk about the version issue?!?! Give me a break. So now, ever time a shared library gets updated, you have to search the entire disk subsystem to find ever reference? Hmmm ... maybe app A has a private copy because it relies on certain api details of an older version, but all the other apps should be updated? You just created a monster. Why would you do this? What are you accomplishing?

There's nothing wrong with the current implementation. Any other approach is going to be much more complicated, i.e. Tiger, smart folders, spotlight. All of this because you can't keep yourself organized enough to know where your files are? This isn't a new problem. It has existed as long as information has. Next thing you know someone will complain because their computer doesn't keep track of which clothes as clean in their wardrobe and supply a suitable attire for the next day's itinerary. Sorry, I have a brain, and I don't mind using it. If you don't use it, you lose it. Who wants to become a slave to their computer. Think, damn it!
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Old Nov 16, 2004, 10:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveL
OK, so lets talk about the version issue?!?! Give me a break. So now, ever time a shared library gets updated, you have to search the entire disk subsystem to find ever reference? Hmmm ... maybe app A has a private copy because it relies on certain api details of an older version, but all the other apps should be updated? You just created a monster. Why would you do this? What are you accomplishing?
It's up to individual app vendors to upgrade their apps to new versions of shared libs when and if they see fit, and with proper testing.

What you accomplish is:
- upgrading OS no longer breaks your app
- installing a new app can not break existing
- since .app bundle is completely self-contained, so installer/deinstaller prog required
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 05:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broken_keyboard
It's up to individual app vendors to upgrade their apps to new versions of shared libs when and if they see fit, and with proper testing.

What you accomplish is:
- upgrading OS no longer breaks your app
- installing a new app can not break existing
- since .app bundle is completely self-contained, so installer/deinstaller prog required
Uhh... did you mean (emphasis mine):

What you accomplish is:
- upgrading OS no longer breaks your app
- installing a new app can not break existing apps
- since .app bundle is completely self-contained, so no installer/deinstaller prog required
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 05:59 AM   #24
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He's only telling the truth, can't you accept that?

You think the Mac is the perfect platform. I think Apple should improve the ease-of-use, because it always was one of the Mac's best. And we can't say the Mac OS X is good on that way.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 06:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldspot
He's only telling the truth, can't you accept that?

You think the Mac is the perfect platform. I think Apple should improve the ease-of-use, because it always was one of the Mac's best. And we can't say the Mac OS X is good on that way.
Who are you referring to? If your floating "he" reference is supposed to point at "Tera Patricks", then I understand where you're coming from. What I don't understand is how the role of search tools could be downplayed so much. I search for things frequently, and I'd always appreciate a better search tool. Oh, and BTW - I don't think the Mac is perfect by any means. I just find it to be better than the alternatives.
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