1 ghz G3, 17" CRT iMac!

Discussion in 'Hardware Rumors' started by sjs, Apr 4, 2002.

  1. sjs macrumors 6502

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    #1
    My family very happily uses our iMac 600 about eight hours per day for: the internet, word processing, MSN Messenger and Quicken. In other words, about what 90% of all computer users do. Plus iTunes and iPhoto work beautifully. Just one thing - the 600 is a bit sluggish, though really, no one complains.

    Now, with the new iMac starting at $1400, it looks like the old model will hang around for some time. I think that by MWSF we will see the G3 at 1 ghz, and if you made the CRT 17 inches and sold it for $999 I believe Apple would sell 500,000+ "old iMacs" per year without interfering with sales of flat panel iMac, since it would be competing in a completely different market. And Apple needs to have something in the $999 range since Steve is intent on converting PC users.

    What do you think? Will we see the CRT iMac in a faster, bigger mode?
     
  2. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

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    #2
    Re: 1 ghz G3, 17" CRT iMac!

    they might sell a load of them, but that doesn't mean there would be any profit in them. you can't just slap a 17 inch monitor in those cases, the entire things would have to be redesigned, including making sure all the cooling works alright. thats a lot of money to put into a low margin product, whcih would be mde even lower by the fact that its got a bigger monitor and a faster chip. I don't think they'd sell as many as you think they would either. a 17 inch case would be very, very large and rather ugly looking in all liklihood. and of course, apple can't put a 1 ghz chip into a low end model until its at least in the flat panels, and those 1 ghz g4's are expensive, and probably there aren't a lot of them out there. we all want the fastest, cheapest computer with the biggest monitor and all the extras, but trying to do that is precisely why almost all of the computer industry is losing money left and right. Apple's making money and looks to be continuing that trend, so i'll trust they know what they're doing for now.
     
  3. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

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    #3
    i'd love to agree but steve probably wouldn't want to do this... he bravely said that "i think we can safely say this is the official death of the crt"

    although maybe it wasn't so 'safe' to say... he might change his mind

    i do know i would rather save another few months and get an imac g4
     
  4. pixelpete macrumors newbie

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    Jan 2, 2002
    #4
    1ghz G3????

    G3 is goning bye bye so don't get to attached to it. Buy a G4,Period.

    I think this guy is trying to make his 600mhz into a bong.:eek:
     
  5. sjs thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Of course it would take a new case. And yes Steve said its the end of the CRT. So what?

    The design of a new case, amortized over a million or two machines is nothing. As for killing off CRTs, with the addl cost of flat panels, things may need a rethink. Is Apple going to try to convert PC users, but only thoses willing to spend $1500? And abandon the $1000 market? I'd bet not.

    As for "low margin": Apple now sells the old iMac very profitably. A 17" CRT is what, $60 more? A 1ghz G3 6-9 months from now should cost no more than a 600mhz does now. I have to believe the margins would be at least equal to those of the new iMac...maybe better.

    1 ghz G3, 17" iMac for a grand would re-ignite interest among the unwashed, needing-to-be-converted masses. (That's Apple's target now).
     
  6. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

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    #6
    Although Apple's hardware is impressive I've found that the main reason my friends and family are beginning to really consider Macs is because of their software. I think people are just attracted by Apple's hardware and then captivated by Apple's "solutions"

    A remodeled old school iMac would be overkill--the new iMac is enough to gain attention

    Once people learn about all they can do, then they'll switch (which is why my gaming friends just won't convert--but they'd like to)

    Looks just aren't everything (luckily)
     
  7. sjs thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #7
    kishba, I agree that the software is the main thing. In fact thats why I think Apple needs to be in the $1000 market, because once someone tries a mac, they will love it and later move up.

    However, a $1000 mac has just gotta get a bit faster. AND, I don't think anyone, even regular consumers, want a 15" screen anymore.
     
  8. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

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    #8
    Well I just talked with a friend who's getting a new computer (sub $1000) and he just said the same thing... I guess most people just don't have the patience to save up for a year or two (like I did)

    But the wait is ALWAYS worth it :)
     
  9. IndyGopher macrumors 6502a

    IndyGopher

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    #9
    Which is what the new iMacs have.. and they're G4's. Wanting something, no matter how badly, does not magically confer good sense onto its creation. When the iMac was all one form-factor, the old CRT version, every time an Apple executive appeared in any capacity, at any event, everyone was *SURE* it was to announce an iMac with a 17" screen. It didn't happen.. and it never will. A 15" iMac weighs in at 35 pounds. A 17" iMac would look like one of those ill-conceived all-in-one G3's that they built for schools.. only in amazingly gaudy translucent plastics.. and weigh 30% more than the 15" ones. That means a complete redesign. Really. Not just a nip and tuck.. the cooling, the power supply, the enclosure, the handle... everything. That is a huge deal. And as for amortizing it across millions of units, that would be true.. but no way are they going to sell another million G3, CRT-based iMacs. No way. In short, this is never going to happen. It's money spent on entirely the wrong segment of their business, for a product that is a niche item even within Apple.. the king of niche products.
     
  10. kishba macrumors 6502a

    kishba

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    #10
    That was a problem with the cube... I still would have bought one though (I felt the noise from a tower was just too annoying)

    I guess I'm part of that niche though :D
     
  11. sjs thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #11
    IndyGopher, I'd like to challenge your response on a couple of points:

    1- You say "No way, this is not going to happen" in regard to the 17" screen, due to its size and weight. That's illogical from a marketing point of view. Millions of 17" monitors are sold every year and sit on people's desktops, with the computer on the floor. In the same space as the just their monitor takes up, Apple would give you the whole system. That size has met the approval of the market, and will continue to as long as some people have less than $1500 to spend on a new iMac.

    2- You said this would be "money spent on the wrong segment of their (Apple's) business". Once again, I think you are reflecting your own feelings about computing and are not listening to what Apple is saying. Steve says the future of the computer is the digital hub. That means ordinary people using iMacs for music, pictures, movies and whatever else. Steve has made it very clear he wants to convert PC users. I cannot believe this means he wants to abandon the part of that market below $1500. That would be stupid, which he certainly isn't.
     
  12. IndyGopher macrumors 6502a

    IndyGopher

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    #12
    You left out all of the reasons I listed for this being impractical, save the one you thought you had a rebuttal for. The size for an all-in-one computer with a 17" CRT has NOT met the approval of the market, because there ARE no all-in-one computers with 17" CRTs. Again, we are not talking about just a puffed up iMac with a couple inches added to each of its dimensions. The added weight means the little flippy foot will no long support it for tilt. The handle, which already gets dicey on older iMacs, certainly has to be redesigned or removed, else each dropped iMac or broken handle becomes a PR nightmare. The power supply has to be beefed up to run the larger monitor.. the heat output increases.. now you need a fan again. You have a 17" CRT now. Looks good. You need a better video chipset than in the previous CRT iMacs.. oh, those need fans, too. Ok, so now you have an entirely NEW, NON-G4 iMac motherboard to design, build, support, etc. This is not going to happen. Really. Get over it.

    Cutting margins, pouring money into G3 anything, with the CRT's he made a big deal about dismissing a year ago... I do not see any of this happening. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe good ol' Steve Jobs will decide it's better to put design and support money into the G3, giving the CRT iMacs larger screens than the G4, flat panel iMacs. Maybe instead of using the existing inventory of parts, and the fab units to create them, they'll retool everything for a new iMac G3. Whatever.
     
  13. eirik macrumors regular

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    #13
    17" iMac

    I think we're more likely to see a 17" iMac LCD than a CRT. And, I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

    While a 17" LCD iMac will eventually make its way to the market for obvious reasons, the supply problems that Apple is experiencing now might necessitate a move to 17" LCD sooner than Apple intended.

    All this is based upon assumptions that Apple will continue to struggle to get enough 15" LCD's to meet demand and that quickly developing a 17" high-end LCD would be relatively trivial.

    Grant it, the 17" model may well be $300 or more per unit higher than the present high-end iMac. But, if the demand is as strong as the periodicals indicate, I expect Apple would sell a lot of them, well worth the effort.

    The supply constraint not only means some units may not be sold today but it may also curtail the current market momentum for the iMac, which would mean considerably more units never sold.

    All this said, I still doubt Apple will do this. But, from what little I know, I probably would, unless data that I would have as an Apple decision-maker would suggest otherwise.

    Eirik
     
  14. strider42 macrumors 65816

    strider42

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    #14
    60 bucks per unit is a huge amount in terms of profit margins, plus you don't take into account the extensive reengineering and testing that would have to be done, lining up suppliers, all for technologies that are dead in the water as far as apple is concerned (CRT's and the G3). On top of all that, there is no way they'd sell a couple million of them. you castly over estimate apple's market. preorders for the g4 iMAc was like 150 thousand, over the course of a year, a million or 2 max. there's no way there is double that amount out there for what would look like a very ugly, bloated, outdated iMac. to convert the masses, you get their attention. you do that with a flat screen and the superdrive.

    I might also point out the flat panel iMac's viewable screen area is the same as a 17" crt. So if you wanted to use a g3, it would make much more sense to simply put the g3 into the new iMac design rather than make a whole new computer line.
     
  15. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    #15
    I think there may be processor updates to the iMac at some point but I think the chance of a redesign is pretty near zero. What would be the point? They are trying to get the iMacG4 more popular so if they make a PR buzz about the older iMac it may cause problems.

    Ensign
     
  16. iGav macrumors G3

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    Mar 9, 2002
    #16
    strider42 exactly!!!

    The flat panel iMac's viewable screen area is the same as a 17" crt I think everyone missed this point...... it completely nulifies the argument!!

    Why would anyone want a 17" CRT iMac anyway??? it'd be huge!!! a backward step...... keep the 15" iMac and sell this as cheap as possible, this way people that can't afford a new iMac or iBook can still buy a Mac..... not everyone can afford the latest or the greatest hardware!!

    I think it'd be a shame to get rid of the old iMac just for the sake of it!!! It's still a decent little machine and an affordble entry point to the Mac World!!
     
  17. Wry Cooter macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I don't think the people wishing for a 17 inch iMac realize how much a 17 inch monitor really weighs.

    Apple is probably saving a fortune on shipping costs by selling LCDs wherever they can.
     
  18. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    Location:
    Europe
    #18
    Hey iGAV, the first F1 fan I have met on MacRumors (I am a schumacher fan, although I will not say which schumacher)

    The cheap 500mhz iMac is perfect for people who wish to enter the Mac world, its cheap enough to not be a risk buying and expensive enough so people don't laugh at it!

    Ensign
     
  19. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
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    Europe
    #20
    I have a suspicion that this is one of my PC friends, I was telling him about MacRumors.com and GoCyrus last night. For the gods, he should have a similar IP to me (along the line of 10.32.64.##) because we are inside the same firewall. Unless it uses 1 IP for the whole company, although I doub't this as its got 1000s of people behind it.

    He most probably was in the room I was when he did it, so I will try to find out. Sorry if it was!

    Ensign

    Update:

    According to my friend (his name is Chris Lucius) he was in his words:
    "Just havin a laugh" so I advise you ignore him. He will be dealt with in according with my agressive nature.

    Sorry about this,
    Ensign
     
  20. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #21
    Ensign... snap...

    Aha Schumi........ I'm a MS as opposed to a RS fan...... also a big supporter of Ferrari, have been since 1986....

    Brazil was a brilliant race, it's gonna be the Schumi brothers and montoya all the way I think this year!!! As long as Montoya doesn't tantrum his way out of the running that is!!!:p

    GoCyrus2, I missed joining in the first time, I look forward to duelling with you in your new re-incarnate form.....

    Please select you computer of choice........:p


    UPDATE!!!

    Imposter.......... speaking of imposters, anybody that frequents the Designers Republic disscussion boards.... www.thedesignersrepublic.com will notice that they had problems with a poster, called Mr 8 bits, he causing all kinds of s**t on the board, so TDR tracked down his details, portfolio, website email address etc, and posted online for everyone to read!! truely superb way of embarrassing someone!!! Heh heh!!

    Also tracked they tracked his home address, and put a message up saying "We know where you live!! check your email!! love TDR" :p

    Oh to keep in line with the post topic, CRT iMacs just need to have the odd speed increase, bigger hardrives, and when decent graphics cards become cheaper they can install those too!! anyway 600 iMacs are still quite zippy!!!
     
  21. Ensign Paris macrumors 68000

    Ensign Paris

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    #22
    right, I can admit it now, I am a MS fan since about 1994 (when I first started watching F1) I really really dislike the williams team for some reason.

    Ensign
     
  22. iGav macrumors G3

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2002
    #23
    Williams sux......

    Because they're are sponsored and use Compaq computers......... :rolleyes:

    Schumi Snr will win this years title, especially when he keeps knocking Montoya back into his box every race!!:p
     
  23. sjs thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #24
    All of you brilliant strategic thinkers have pointed out that:
    CRT's are old tech; a 17" CRT is big; it would take a redesign...etc.
    You all have a firm grasp on the obvious.

    That still leaves the underlying need unmet.

    There is a huge group of PC users that Steve would like to convert. The cheapest new iMac is $1400 plus you need more RAM and you may have tax or shipping...now your cheapest offering is $1500+.

    So since my concept is "never going to happen" (and you may be right)...what is Apple going to do about the $1000 market?

    Keep the current old iMac? Bump the speed?

    Or drop it and hope component prices fall to eventually get a G4 LCD iMac down to $1000?
     
  24. Beej macrumors 68020

    Beej

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    #25
    Aw, what about me? Remember our conversation about Webber? You've hurt my feelings now :(
     

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