Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
63,300
30,394



122037-core_location_map.jpg
There has obviously been a lot of discussion about last week's disclosure that iOS devices are maintaining an easily-accessible database tracking the movements of users dating back to the introduction of iOS 4 a year ago. The issue has garnered the attention of U.S. elected officials and has played fairly heavily in the mainstream press.

One MacRumors reader emailed Apple CEO Steve Jobs asking for clarification on the issue while hinting about a switch to Android if adequate explanations are not forthcoming. Jobs reportedly responded, turning the tables by claiming both that Apple does not track users and that Android does while referring to the information about iOS shared in the media as "false".Q: Steve,

Could you please explain the necessity of the passive location-tracking tool embedded in my iPhone? It's kind of unnerving knowing that my exact location is being recorded at all times. Maybe you could shed some light on this for me before I switch to a Droid. They don't track me.

A: Oh yes they do. We don't track anyone. The info circulating around is false.

Sent from my iPhoneAs is Jobs' usual style, his brief comments provide little detail or information to support his claims, and his vagueness leaves things rather open to interpretation.

Android has been shown to also gather location information, but the database is limited to a much smaller list of entries and is regularly wiped by the system. Jobs' email seems to explicitly claim, however, that Google's location information is used to track users while Apple's is not.

Apple responded to some questions about location tracking and privacy last July, noting that users have the ability to turn off location services entirely and that all location features require explicit authorization from the user. The Wall Street Journal has found, however, that this newly-publicized database is constructed even when location services are turned off entirely.The Journal tested the collection of data on an iPhone 4 that had been restored to factory settings and was running the latest version of Apple's iOS operating system.

The Journal disabled location services (which are on by default) and immediately recorded the data that had initially been gathered by the phone. The Journal then carried the phone to new locations and observed the data. Over the span of several hours as the phone was moved, it continued to collect location data from new places.As many observers have noted, the iOS location database does not record exact GPS data, instead seeking to pinpoint the locations of Wi-Fi access points and cell towers that the device comes within range of, although the database does offer a clear general track of a user's movements.

In the meantime, government agencies in a number of countries have launched investigations into the situation, seeking explanations from Apple and details on how users can protect their privacy.

Article Link: Steve Jobs on iOS Location Issue: 'We Don't Track Anyone'
 

Fuchal

macrumors 68030
Sep 30, 2003
2,604
1,057
So Steve is saying there is no database of locations? Thats just an outright lie.

No, he's saying Apple does not track your location. There has been no evidence that any of the location information leaves your phone/computer. Whether that file should exist or not is another debate.
 

applefanDrew

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2010
1,437
4
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't get the big deal about it. If you want to be anonymous, get off fb, twitter, macrumors, etc. Then cancel all Internet plans you have and your cellular plan. Then no one will ever know where you are unless you tell them.
 

sinsin07

macrumors 68040
Mar 28, 2009
3,606
2,662
So Steve is saying there is no database of locations? Thats just an outright lie.
There is a lot of information circulating. Without knowing what he is referring to exactly your statement is outright bogus.
 

aristobrat

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2005
12,292
1,403
So Steve is saying there is no database of locations? Thats just an outright lie.
No. Re-read the three sentences he typed. He said that Apple is not tracking anyone. That infers that the database of locations is not being used to track a users location.
 

applefanDrew

macrumors 65816
Jul 17, 2010
1,437
4
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

aristobrat said:
So Steve is saying there is no database of locations? Thats just an outright lie.
No. Re-read the three sentences he typed. He said that Apple is not tracking anyone. That infers that the database of locations is not being used to track a users location.

Which is obvious since it's not using the GPS.
 

Mattstkc

macrumors 6502a
Dec 8, 2009
574
0
Chicago, IL
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't get the big deal about it. If you want to be anonymous, get off fb, twitter, macrumors, etc. Then cancel all Internet plans you have and your cellular plan. Then no one will ever know where you are unless you tell them.

+1. My IP is being logged right now most likely. No matter where you go, using any communication device, you can be tracked. If you're that paranoid, get off the grid. Every phone company tracks your location. This for iPhone users is just a log of it on your phone.

I do agree, however, that the consolidated.db file should at least be encrypted if it is to remain on the device. Now any good crook knows all they need is your iphone to find out when best to rob you.
 

Blipp

macrumors 6502
Mar 14, 2011
268
0
Call me naive (or perhaps paranoid) but I've been assuming my location is being tracked since I bought my first smart phone years ago.
 

sinsin07

macrumors 68040
Mar 28, 2009
3,606
2,662
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't get the big deal about it. If you want to be anonymous, get off fb, twitter, macrumors, etc. Then cancel all Internet plans you have and your cellular plan. Then no one will ever know where you are unless you tell them.

Too late for that: http://www.spokeo.com/
 

NebulaClash

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2010
1,810
0
there's a big difference between the device knowing where it is/has been and that information actually being uploaded to "the mothership".

Correct, and that's why Steve is telling the truth unlike the trolls pretending this is an Apple conspiracy. That file is stuck on your hard disk and goes nowhere. Delete it and you don't even have that (as I did months ago when this story first broke). I tried the mapping tool and it won't work on my machine because consolidated.db cannot be found. Yet my iPhone works just fine, and Location Services works fine too.

Apple has never grabbed this information.

Android, on the other hand, exists so that it can serve advertiser's needs. Apple has been Opt In, but Android is Opt Out, which means your data gets transmitted to advertisers by default. You bet they track you on Droids. That's the entire business model.
 

Modano

macrumors regular
Jun 23, 2003
114
23
New Orleans
Let's say you write down everywhere you go in a notebook I gave you, which you keep in a desk at your house. Does that mean I'm tracking you? That's essentially what's happening here. It's just a better story to call it "tracking" and "spying."
Also, switching to a mobile OS made by an advertising company for privacy reasons is just absurd.
 

0815

macrumors 68000
Jul 9, 2010
1,793
1,065
here and there but not over there
Call me naive (or perhaps paranoid) but I've been assuming my location is being tracked since I bought my first smart phone years ago.

I guess the fine point of difference is: It is stored on your phone (and computer where you do the backup), but it is never send to anyone ... so Apple is not tracking you since they never see that information. Saying Apple tracks you would mean that information collected is send to Apple, which is not the case.
 

Gemütlichkeit

macrumors 65816
Nov 17, 2010
1,276
0
Any smart phone with GPS will track/store data.

Thinking you can get away with this simply by switching brands is mental.

Bottom line, if you don't want to be "tracked" (location recorded) don't own a cellphone. Those cellphone towers always know where you are =-O
 

GoodWatch

macrumors 6502a
Sep 22, 2007
954
37
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)

I don't get the big deal about it. If you want to be anonymous, get off fb, twitter, macrumors, etc. Then cancel all Internet plans you have and your cellular plan. Then no one will ever know where you are unless you tell them.


I don't think that is the point here. Apple, arguably the greatest and most customer-centric company with the world's best smart phone, the best OS and magical appliances (at least, that is what I'm being told here over and over again) collects location data without your prior knowledge or consent. If you become a member of MacRumors it is your own, deliberate, decision. But I already can see where this is going. Cue the drone-like Apple defenders, I hear them coming ;)
 

louis Fashion

macrumors 6502a
Jan 22, 2010
726
3
Arizona, USA
there's a big difference between the device knowing where it is/has been and that information actually being uploaded to "the mothership".


True, but the opt out system should have a way to erase the .db file. The Wall St. Journal's investigation indicates that the device is collecting data at all times.
 

mabaker

macrumors 65816
Jan 19, 2008
1,209
566
Google servers are receiving every single bit of tracking info. Apple’s servers don’t. As easy. Let’s not forget this big picture here.


Besides if you encrypt your backup, nothing can happen. Thank you, have a good day.
 

anti-microsoft

macrumors 68000
Dec 15, 2006
1,665
6
Edinburgh, Scotland
From what I've read, this really isn't that big of an issue. The database is just a list (that's locally stored) of places that you've been to. If it was uploaded to Apple, I would definitely be concerned but if it's a local file, then what's the fuss?
To get to the information, people would have to either:

A. Steal your phone and access the file
B. Steal your computer and access your iPhone backups
C. Hack your phone and find the file (if that's even possible)
D. Hack your computer and access the backups
E. Follow you wherever you go (unlikely, but who knows)

To me those options are more worrying when it comes to privacy than a list of coordinates stored locally on your phone, hidden in some sub-folder.

Anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Ams.
 

tazinlwfl

macrumors 6502
Jul 14, 2008
320
462
Florida
This issue is really starting to frustrate me. iPhone users that I know are starting to freak out because they're getting their information from sensationalized media and don't really understand what's really going on.

That is one of the reasons Apple can't sit on their hands with this issue - there are too many people getting misinformation that are spreading it to others.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.