14 Year Old Prodigy dead, apparent suicide

[amin]

I actually got into CTY, but I rejected it to go to this Aerospace camp. Needless to say, even though I got higher scores than a TON of a my peers, they wouldn't let me in. I believe CTY gave me sour grapes for that -_-.

You didn't miss much.

Anyway, from my experience, I've met quite a bunch of people who HAVE been to CTY, but those were people my age (11 then, 20 now), so in terms of having a relevancy to the "child prodigies", its not really there. But, if you were there when you were like 5-7 years old...that's another thing.

I'm not sure what you mean. Certainly I made no claim to be a prodigy, genius, or anything else. I did meet kids there that did unusual things like skip high school and go straight to college. They may not have been prodigies, but I believe they likely shared certain life stressors with the young man at the subject of this thread. I'm not sure what my age at attendance has to do with any of this. If you're trying to turn this into an ego thing - and you come off that way - then I believe you're in it alone. Congratulations on your wonderful childhood scores .

 

[Mechcozmo]

In this day, I think having kids that grow up happy takes a lot of luck. As I parent, I really feel for this kid's family. I'm sure they would have rather died in his stead.

Luck? No. Much of it is parenting ability and the fact that kids will harbor a certain amount of resentment towards their parents. Not anything like luck. Of course, it can't hurt to have some good luck can it?

~rubs penny with garlic and rolls it into sock~

 

[Mav451]

You didn't miss much.



I'm not sure what you mean. Certainly I made no claim to be a prodigy, genius, or anything else. I did meet kids there that did unusual things like skip high school and go straight to college. They may not have been prodigies, but I believe they likely shared certain life stressors with the young man at the subject of this thread. I'm not sure what my age at attendance has to do with any of this. If you're trying to turn this into an ego thing - and you come off that way - then I believe you're in it alone. Congratulations on your wonderful childhood scores .

I think you misunderstood me dude. I'm saying that at that camp, my brother had gone and I got to know some of his friends there. They were normal people, of the normal age (i.e. 11). In fact, more than a few are here with me in engineering at Maryland.

I'm saying, if you put a kid at 5 or 6 years old in that situation (probably with mom/dad cheering in the background), it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Mav451]

I'm not sure what you mean. Certainly I made no claim to be a prodigy, genius, or anything else. I did meet kids there that did unusual things like skip high school and go straight to college. They may not have been prodigies, but I believe they likely shared certain life stressors with the young man at the subject of this thread. I'm not sure what my age at attendance has to do with any of this. If you're trying to turn this into an ego thing - and you come off that way - then I believe you're in it alone. Congratulations on your wonderful childhood scores .

I'm not sure what you are confusing about what I said. I said this might not have relevancy to CTY - b/c we don't KNOW if he went there or not. In terms of prodigies, yeah I guess everyone was talented there, but by no means were they close to the stress that a boy half of our age would have been put through.

 

[feakbeak]

any idea how many geniuses, both scientific and artistic, have died at their own hands?

For instance, the guy that in the 1800s pioneered nanotechnology to mass produce cameras? Kodak killed himself... that one's on the top of my head since the anniversary was last week.

There have been far too many to be coincidence. Some that come to my mind are Cantor - although he didn't kill himself he battled depression quite a bit in his life. Many speculate that Tchaikovsky committed suicide although this may have had more to do with fear of his homosexuality coming to light than depression. Still, he also struggled with depression throughout his life. I did not know about Kodak. Does anyone else know more artists, mathematicians, scientists or musicians with depression?

Personally I believe there is a link between genius and depression, and its only that people who could be called genius' probably are smart enough to realise how truly messed up we are as a civilization, and perhaps that is what helps drive so many 'genius'' to madness. Albert Einstein is known for his physics but he had a lot of views on the human condition in general, especially when they were using his research for nuclear warfare.

I recall reading about some reaseach on a link between creative genius and depression a few years back, I believe by Stanford. There is some data to back this idea up.

As for Einstein, his views on humanity and religion are amazing, IMO - very insightful.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

If he was determined to kill himself I don't think whether or not he had access to a firearm would have stopped him.

Having dealt with suicides in the past, the ease of access to firearms does make the "final act" easier to obtain. Such a waste of a young and talented life....

 

[acedickson]

"She said Brandenn's kidneys went to two people, his liver to a 22-month old and his heart to an 11-year-old boy."

At least his mother was good enough to save 4 people's lives!

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

"She said Brandenn's kidneys went to two people, his liver to a 22-month old and his heart to an 11-year-old boy."

At least his mother was good enough to save 4 people's lives!

Again. with suicides - I am truly happy that there were 4 lives that were able to be saved.....

 

[BillHarrison]

i find it amusing how nobody gives a thread to all the other children who commit suicide, but for some reason this one was a "special case"

Well, because this one was a "genius" and a "hugely" wasted opportunity.

According to some As far as I can tell, he is currently doing the same thing anyone else who committed suicide is..... And that is certainly not much.

I am aware that some people suffer depression, and believe me, I don't believe it always passes. I actually find happiness to be a fleeting emotion, with the peaks filled in by long valleys of boredom and the occasional depression. Life is tough, anyone who does not thing otherwise, or can't handle it, can go to a "happier" place. I am not saying he did not have a right to take his own life. I do however question someones genius who does. As far as links of genius and depression, you have to remember, we LOOK at those people harder. You don't hear about the no name kid that shot himself in some unknown wisconsin town because his gf cheated on him. That makes the local papers, end of story.

These catch headlines, so we hear more : Also, remember:

One of the basic laws of science is that you can't truly study anything with out having an effect on it. Perhaps its not the fact that they are "genius", but the fact that WE are watching so hard. But who really knows? Perhaps the earthworms can get some info out of them....... Trust me, I have been through ALOT in life, and I have always picked myself up and dusted myself off. And I know many who have done just the same, and have NO DOUBT gone through far deeper problems than this kid.

Is it a waste of life? Perhaps, but his own waste. As a poster above said, he has the right to end his suffering (whatever that may have been) and he did. But, it deserves no more mention than any OTHER suffering teen. If anything else, giving this guy attention because of his act only worsens the problem.

(yes, tasteless, but hey, when you throw yourself down a musty dank hole, you only get to hang out with a few lifeforms after that!)

PS: Last time I checked, Genius was an applied skill: Saying you are the worlds best carpenter means nothing if you never build a cabinet. Saying this kid was a genius means nothing: He never truly applied it to anything.

Sure, he whipped through high school by age 10. Lets be honest here - anyone with an IQ over 140 should be able to pull that off, as the classes are built around people hitting 110. I am sure I am not the only one here that sat through 90% of my high school classes having info beat into my head that I learned the first day it was introduced. But, since the other 90% needs another 5 days to comprehend, I sat there, and learned it over and over. I could have done in one week what took the class 5. But that is no indication of true "Genius" True "Genius" is taking that intelligence and unusual skill in something, and applying it to the world, or some part of it.

I don't see where this happened here?

 

[Thomas Veil]

genius

n 1: someone who has exceptional intellectual ability and originality; 2: unusual mental ability; 3: someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field; 4: exceptional creative ability; 5: a natural talent.

Only one of those definitions even comes close to mentioning applied genius.

As far as pity goes, I don't know what I can say to you about that. You cannot possibly know the depths to which clinical depression can take you,
nor the reactions it inspires. I say that as a sufferer who, thank God, had better access to treatment than this kid. And as a sufferer, I cannot possibly be judgmental about him, especially not knowing the parental or self-applied pressures he may have been under.

 

[BillHarrison]

Only one of those definitions even comes close to mentioning applied genius.

As far as pity goes, I don't know what I can say to you about that. You cannot possibly know the depths to which clinical depression can take you,
nor the reactions it inspires. I say that as a sufferer who, thank God, had better access to treatment than this kid. And as a sufferer, I cannot possibly be judgmental about him, especially not knowing the parental or self-applied pressures he may have been under.

Well, as far as I am concerned, you can't earn that title just by showing that you have certain abilities. Its by applying them and doing something that true genius is shown and born. Could the kid play Tchaikovsky at the age of 3? Perhaps, would that show incredible talent? Yes. But until he creates something of his own, and turns that talent into something, its nothing.

I think the definitions all mentioned involve someone actually DOING something. I also find those definitions a bit open, leaving far more people to be genius's than I would feel truly are :

5: a natural talent = I know many people with truly natural talents - I don't feel any of them are in the genius category - this is such a vague definition, we are all genius's at something.

 

[angelneo]

Well, as far as I am concerned, you can't earn that title just by showing that you have certain abilities. Its by applying them and doing something that true genius is shown and born. Could the kid play Tchaikovsky at the age of 3? Perhaps, would that show incredible talent? Yes. But until he creates something of his own, and turns that talent into something, its nothing.

I think the definitions all mentioned involve someone actually DOING something. I also find those definitions a bit open, leaving far more people to be genius's than I would feel truly are :

5: a natural talent = I know many people with truly natural talents - I don't feel any of them are in the genius category - this is such a vague definition, we are all genius's at something.

Perhaps then we can rephrase and describe this thread as a pity to have lose a kid with such talents?

I think we should at least show some compassion to this kid instead of saying that he is stupid to have committed sucide and shouldn't deserve to be called a genius. I know you could have been through a lot more than him but let's just give him some peace to his passing. He is gone, there is no turning back on this one.

 

[BillHarrison]

Perhaps then we can rephrase and describe this thread as a pity to have lose a kid with such talents?

I think we should at least show some compassion to this kid instead of saying that he is stupid to have committed sucide and shouldn't deserve to be called a genius. I know you could have been through a lot more than him but let's just give him some peace to his passing. He is gone, there is no turning back on this one.

Well put, but lets do the same for others that have been down the same road....

I am not uncaring as I seem

 

[AppleMatt]

I think the definitions all mentioned involve someone actually DOING something.

Well he taught himself to read at a very young age. I'd say that was a pretty good application of natural ability.

AppleMatt

 

[pigbat]

whoa i never heard about this ... i really need to get out more in my own city. damn that sucks :-\ its shocking to see a kid that young doing this especially in my city.

We must be hiding under the same rock. I didn't know of the kid and didn't hear anything of the suicide.

 

[Blue Velvet]

And as a sufferer, I cannot possibly be judgmental about him, especially not knowing the parental or self-applied pressures he may have been under.

I think this is the key issue here. Prodigies, super-smart and/or highly-talented kids can come under tremendous pressures as their parents try to live their lives through them.

There's nothing as terrifying as a ballet-mother. Except maybe a beauty-pageant mother...

 

[rainman::|:|]

since we don't know what happens after death, we can't make the moral judgment that suicide is stupid or immature. It does appear to be the latter, but we can't know for sure. (if, for instance, the afterlife is an enlightened paradise full of dancing flowers, those of us who don't suicide are the stupid ones that wait for our bodies to collapse.) The idea that we can't feel pity or regret for these people is callous-- If only for the selfish, what-could-he-have-done-for-mankind reasoning, assuming you don't have enough humanity to feel compassion for someone like this.

I guess there's still an attitude of gotta-be-tough, mental-illness-doesn't-exist, pull-yourself-up-and-dust-off that makes people want to condemn the suicidal to distance themselves, and it shouldn't surprise me...

 

[Apple Hobo]

I guess there's still an attitude of gotta-be-tough, mental-illness-doesn't-exist, pull-yourself-up-and-dust-off that makes people want to condemn the suicidal to distance themselves, and it shouldn't surprise me...

I know what you mean. I really despise this type of tuff-guy attitude.

 

[Mechcozmo]

Maybe this is the afterlife?

 

[wdlove]

I think this is the key issue here. Prodigies, super-smart and/or highly-talented kids can come under tremendous pressures as their parents try to live their lives through them.

There's nothing as terrifying as a ballet-mother. Except maybe a beauty-pageant mother...

Yes, it certainly reminds me of Jon Benet Ramsey and others like her. There is no real way of knowing the pressure that they feel. I do think that everyone has their own cross to bear.

 

[Lacero]

Why are super-smart kids put up on pedestals? So what if they are geniuses. Super-intelligent people do not automatically become people of integrity, honesty or virtuous. We put so much importance on people with 1400 SAT scores or 200 IQs that we think they are saints. They are not. Would you believe some mensa members are murderers and thieves? I'd like to see people not place so much emphasis on people with superior intellect. Lots of boys aged 14 kill themselves. I knew one really popular athletic kid in high school who everyone looked up to. 2 years after graduating, he hung himself with his belt in his closet.

 

[Mav451]

Not to go tangent from this thread, but they say that the most cheating (successfully) goes on in the GT/Honors classes; under the assumption that students in those classes are "smarter".

And to go even more tangent, if you take cheating and transpose that to the bigger picture of breaking the law, I think you can see where this is going. [Dumb criminals get caught or are taped on Fox's COP/reality shows; Smart criminals?...]

Intelligence and ethics hardly ever go hand-in-hand. Wasn't there a movie about this too? Mercury Rising i think it was...

 

[Lynxpro]

Ah, but we don't know how determined (and never will)... there are 100 ways, but a squeeze on a trigger is so easy, fast and irreversible.

So is swallowing pills. So is jumping off a building or bridge. The firearm isn't the problem, it was whatever that motivated the child into doing what he did. A wasted life indeed.

 

[wdlove]

So is swallowing pills. So is jumping off a building or bridge. The firearm isn't the problem, it was whatever that motivated the child into doing what he did. A wasted life indeed.

I don't think that any life is wasted. I'm confidant that he had more good times than bad. He provided his parents with a lot of memories. That is what his parent will have to last them the rest of their life. Depression is very serious, it also robs one of strength. Chances are if this was the cause of his death, he may have been feeling a little better. It takes strength to commit suicide. Some leave message for help prior and others don't. It isn't always that they want to die. The pain is so great that they want it to stop. The lucky one's have attempts that don't work, at that point they can get help.

 

[Lacero]

If he were such a genius, he shoulda jumped off a cliff or bridge instead of blowing his brains out and having his parents discover his bloody body. Someone has to clean up the mess. Geez, if I take my own life, at least I would think of the other people before i go.