17" iMac?

Discussion in 'MacRumors News Discussion (archive)' started by arn, Apr 17, 2002.

  1. arn
    macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

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    #1
    PowerPage posted a rumor that a 17-inch iMac model is in the works.

    Meanwhile, Hiro had submitted an unverifiable rumor that new iBooks would have 100mhz bumps, ADC-out Powerbooks, and a 17" CRT iMac.

    This rumor was previously unpublished due to the lack of supporting evidence... but may provide some information in light of PowerPage's rumor.
     
  2. macrumors 6502

    macstudent

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    #2
    I don't believe that the imac will be getting a 17" screen anytime soon since the prices of LCD's have been rising recently. Also, if apple can barely keep up with demand for the current imacs, why introduce another model at this time? I think that in a year or so we may see the 17" option.
     
  3. arn
    thread starter macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

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    #3
    personally, I don't think we'll see a 17" iMac from Apple any time soon... I still feel Apple's very aware of their product lines - and don't want "Pro"s buying iMacs.

    arn
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    Billicus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Location:
    Charles City, Iowa
    #4
    Re: 17" iMac?

    I find that hard to believe. Here's why:

    1) Apple is phasing out the CRT Monitors (a la iMac G3)
    2) Why would they mess with a design released 4 months ago, especially when they are still behind on production of the 15'' monitor.
    3) Why mess with something that works?
    4) I just don't see that happening anytime soon.
    5) As for the iBook and Powerbook mods, who knows?
     
  5. macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #5
    i agree on both points. i guess i'd like to think that the 2" difference wouldn't be that much of a cost increase, but just going by the $400 difference b/w the 2 sized apple displays, it clearly is...

    i think keeping the crt's up to date (relatively) is a good idea though. as much as the new imac rules, it just LOOKS too fancy for schools and stuff that have been using the old ones. and to keep the crt's pretty cheap would be a good thing for schools and folks like travis... ha
     
  6. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #6
    The 17" CRT iMac might be the Flat-CRT base model I suggested in one of the other posts.

    The 100MHz update to the iBooks are absolutely possible and will be done; however, if it will stay a G3 or if the chip will transfer to a G4 I can't tell.

    What I suggest should happen is that new powerbooks come out soon, along with reduced prices for memory.

    How reduced? Well, I think my parents won $5 playing the $330 Million lottery... :)
    _______________

    Any time is a great time for iPod.
     
  7. arn
    thread starter macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

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    Apr 9, 2001
    #7
    Re: Re: 17" iMac?

    It is an interesting thought in light of this quote from Macminute re Apple's conference call:

    Apple moved 152,000 CRT-based iMacs last quarter; Apple needs a sub-$1,000 product; Anderson: "Long live the original iMac"

    arn

    (but I agree... unlikely)
     
  8. macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    #8
    Apple can easily create a sub-$1000 product for their base line. Slap in a Flat-CRT monitor, a really fast G3 or slow G4, some basic equipment, and you have a $900 computer.

    Arn, question: In "limewire connection problems..." you posted that for Mp3 Audio use AudioGalaxy and for Movies = > use mldonkey. I can ask this since you posted this...where can I find mldonkey? I tried engine54 and altavista and had no luck. It isn't a big deal, but it would be nice to know.

    Also, where can I download a G4 iMac? :)
    _______________

    Any time is a great time for iPod.
     
  9. macrumors 6502

    me hate windows

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    #9
    Why?

    Why would Apple make a 17" CRT iMac? It is already big and bulky. I would not want an iMac bigger than that.

    But the 17" LCD iMac could happen. In all the pictures of the iMac, it looks like the base is tiny, but in real life it pretty big. Maybe in all the pictures, it has a 17" monitor on it to make the base look small.:eek: Hmmmmmm..........
     
  10. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #10
    If the iMac had a G3, how many 'pro's would be interested? I don't think it would be all that viable as a pro model. It would be nice to give the option of extra screen acreage to hobbiest and students, and also adds longer life to the product line. If they keep the CRT iMac around, how long are people going to settle for a small screen when larger ones keep getting cheaper and cheaper? All its doing is dating itself as old and obsolete, you can dress it up in different colors, but its basically still the same.

    I could see it happening sooner than we think, and it could help delay the debue of the G5 if they need to wait until MWSF. Things are getting tight for Apple in the pro arena lately, and they'll need to keep new hardware coming on a regular basis. By adding a bigger screen, it might help them as far as Wall Street is concerned. But how important is that anyway?
     
  11. macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    #11
    While I don't put myself into the 'g5 soon' gang here is the only way I see a 17" iMac.

    17" CRT iMac just doesn't fit... First off Steve has his new iMac and I don't see him going back to rev the old one and draw attention away from it. Think about it... that ain't Steve... Second it wouldn't make sense for Apple to give the old iMac a larger screen and draw even more attention to the fact that that new iMac is only a 15". Finally like many, a 17" iMac would force Apple to re-tool for a brand new line and that cost money that IMHO Apple would be able to re-coupe

    17" LCD iMac... Yea that fits cept for one thing... Some pro sales would be re-directed to the iMac. The speed difference between the entry level PowerMac and the iMac just isn't large enough and the cost of the PowerMac+17"LCD is way more than what Apple would be able to charge for an 17" LCD iMac.

    How could Apple stop the Pro's from going iMac 17"? CPU Bump the Pro line at the same time the iMac get's bumped to 17".

    Do I think this will happen... Sure but I'd be very VERY surprised if it was done at MWNY. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for it to happen but I'd rather not get my hopes up.

    Dave
     
  12. macrumors 6502

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Melbourne
    #12
    CRT?

    If Apple release new iMacs with CRTs I will eat my shoe. It just ain't their style. You don't see them running back to floppy drives, do ya?
     
  13. Moderator emeritus

    Rower_CPU

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #13
    If you look down at the comments on the page you can see some pretty good reasons why not:

    • Arm design - would have to be redesigned to provide similar ease-of-movement while not collapsing under the extra weight
    • Center of gravity - if the display is as heavy/heavier than the base, extending the display too far from the base would cause it to be unstable
    • Price - people already complain about the price of the iMac being beyond the true consumer market...what will a 17" display that costs an additional $400 do to that price point?
     
  14. macrumors 6502

    macstudent

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    #14
    I still think they will keep manufacturing the CRT imacs for at least a year. The reason is simply because education institutions rely on the bottom line, and that bottom line is cost and durability. The original imacs are very cheap to purchase and there is hardly any upkeep. The new imacs on the other hand cost more, and could be broken easier due to the misuse of students.

    While I love the new imac, it is not neccesarily the best computer for a classroom full of kids who like to hang on things.
     
  15. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2001
    Location:
    NY
    #15
    I think that a 17 inch iMac G4 is out of the question right now, of course it is in the works, maybe in a year or so, they will release it. As for Powerbook and iBook upgrades, they are needed. We will have to wait and see what happens, but I hope that we get a powerbook upgrade before MWNY
     
  16. macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    iowa
    #16
    I cannot possibly imagine a 17" LCD iMac, and I'll tell you why. Not because product lines would be difficult to manage, not because it would add too much cost, or detract from the Pro sales. Think of this: The 15" iMac took Ives two years to realize, conceptualize, and perfect. Do you think Jobs is just going to slap a 17 inch monitor on? At the risk of starting a form vs. function flame war, it would be aesthetically unsound. They would have to re-design the computer, perhaps by creating a bigger CPU or starting from scratch... Neither is probably likely. If you asked Jobs or Ives why, they'd probably say "it just wouldn't look right"...

    That's totally ignoring the fact that the whole point of a consumer line at Apple is that they get minimal choices. 15" displays have been the only size available for consumer models since the iMac came out. (we're ignoring the Cube, because i still don't know how the hell to classify it)

    I think we as Mac users tend to overlook the immense time and work that goes into physical design, instead taking it for granted and throwing it out the window when we want another feature, and for cheap, too...

    Just my2¢ as always ;)

    pnw
     
  17. macrumors regular

    Joined:
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    Leesburg, VA
    #17
    17" LCD iMac, HELL YES!!!

    From the posts that I'd read in this thread, I found that many of the reasons for not going with the 17" LCD are actually reasons for going with the 17" LCD.

    Supply problems:

    Many have noted that the 15" LCD supply suggest that Apple shouldn't go with a 17" LCD.

    On the contrary, that is one of the greatest reasons for adding a 17" LCD iMac. Since Apple introduced the 15" LCD iMac, it has failed to meet demand. Undoubtedly, this has slowed the momentum that iMac would have otherwise enjoyed. This is contrary to what Fred Johnson said today. He claimed that sales do not appear to have slowed because of the supply shortage. That is just plain hogwash@!!! It may be that sales have kept up with Apple's original conservative forecast of sales. But, sales beget sales!!! The difference between delivering 50,000 units and delivering 150,000 units is that there are 100,000 more people showing their friends, colleagues, and family the new iMac and talking about how wonderful it is. So, Apple has lost much in the way of opportunity sales due to the supply shortage.

    So, why the 17" LCD iMac? If your suppliers can provide you 5,000 units per day of 15" LCD's and your total demand is 7,500 units, adding 17" LCD's to the mix could fill the gap.

    The simple pricing approach is to maintain constant margin. But, people willing to buy a 17" LCD iMac are considerably less sensitive than those buying lower-end Macs. So, either way, the addition of the 17" LCD iMacs would raise Apple's earnings period (more than enough to cover the incremental development and production costs).

    A 17" iMac would generate much needed publicity for Apple to reinvigorate its market momentum, dampened by the supply problems. Further, it would provide a further cushion for handling variances or deficits in 15" LCD supplies should Apple's johnny-come-lately advertising campaign that has been unusually small finally be funded at industry normal levels. Do you doubt that if Apple didn't have this supply problem that it wouldn't be employing considerably more advertising resources? Backlogs are fine for the Apple faithful; but new converts are significantly less likely to tolerate shipment delays, a mark that Apple would wear for a long time.

    Costly development to add 17" LCD:

    If Apple didn't have several prototype models of 17" LCD iMac I would be absolutely shocked!!! If Apple has to lengthen the display arm..., that would be trivial. If Apple has to increase the weight of the dome, that too would be trivial. The display arm has supposedly been causing production problems. Well, the same solution for the 15" LCD would obviously apply to the 17" model. I have no doubts that Apple has always intended to make 17" LCD's a future enhancement.

    Apple has had months to deal with its supply issues. In this period of time, Apple could easily make a practical 17" variant as well as be damn near close if not finished with adding it to production.

    Cannibalize low-end PowerMacs:

    That would be great news!!! The low-end PowerMac is one of Apple's lowest margin units. The 17" iMac would appeal to people less price sensitive than those buying low-end PowerMacs; it would generate higher margins. The low-end PowerMac consumers are considerably more price sensitive than high-end iMac consumers, certainly more so than high-end PowerMac consumers.

    Is it so hard to imagine yuppy consumers that prefer style over expandability and minor performance differences? PowerMac buyers want expandability, upgradeability, and performance. An iMac falls short on these preferences. No, I do not think there would be any adverse cannibalism. If anything, there would be earnings positive cannibalism.

    Price would be too high:

    In Apple's finance conference call, Fred Anderson stated that there is no evidence that the $100/unit across the board price increase for iMac had any impact on sales. This confirms my premise that iMac buyers are relatively price inelastic or price insentivie. Add a $100/unit to a low-end Dell and you'd see a significant drop in unit volume because that target market is more price sensitive or price elastic.

    The iMac is not exactly a low-end PC. Yes, its less expensive than PowerMacs. But, its clearly more expensive than Dell, Gateway, or white box CRT units. The true low-end PC targets price sensitive consumers. Upper low-end consumers to high-end consumers go for LCD PCs today. The 15" LCD iMac is price and value competitive. Gateway is already offering a 17" upper-low-end option.

    LCD Cost:

    This really is part of the price issue but I've separated it to make a point. When an OEM negotiates deals with suppliers, the smart OEM's create incentives for the suppliers to meet demand and/or to cut their prices to get business. Apple recently added a second supplier, Apple could have reasonably worked out a deal for more heavily discounted 17" LCD's by levering the second supplier against the first and by making it a condition for the second supplier to get the deal. Even if no special accomodation is/was attained, the yuppy iMac crowd would still buy the 17" version. Only a sound conjoint analysis could determine this prior to launch, I would expect that Apple's market research firm has done this already. If not, an Apple product manager needs a butt kicking!!!

    CPU Speed Delta:

    One might argue that the 17" iMac must be slower than that of the low-end PowerMac. I tend to agree with this insofar as an iMac should not be faster than a PowerMac. But it can be equal!!! Again, a conjoint analysis would be very useful.

    Another might feel that the 17" iMac must be faster than the 15" iMac. I disagree. The display delta is all the differentiation that is required. Why tempt fait further; the target consumers may be less price sensitive but they are not price insensitive.

    Well, I think a 17" iMac makes a lot of sense.

    I also think what someone has called a "headless" iMac makes a lot of sense. This is what I have in the past referred to as the iBrick. But that's another post/thread.

    Eirik
     
  18. macrumors 6502a

    Geert

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    Location:
    .be
    #18
    Indeed a sub 1000$ is needed (if you see what prices are for some low-line peeceees)
    Apple needs to take up on that share of the market as well, remember What Steve said, introducing a quality product for all shares in the market
    so far we had:
    powermac - pro-users
    and imac - all the rest
    (count the laptop market out for a sec.)
    so now we have:
    powermac - pro-users
    (which will be updated soon, seen all articles I read like that survey )
    new imac - semi-pro-users (us:p )
    (btw the new iMac is not more expensive compared to other peecees of equal hardware specs.)
    imac-low - level users
    There are still folks out there who do not want to spend 1900$ on a computer even though it looks great. they just need it for your basic surfin', and some exel.
    So a 17" CRT would just be filling/entering the low level market share again.
    (These low level users ask for big screen (works easy), high processor speed (that's other chip designers just fooling them, because a big exell file just deviates seconds/microseconds on low><high)
    So a 17" and high g3 specs would do the trick.
     
  19. macrumors 6502a

    Geert

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    #19
    oh, I forgot
    So that would definitely not be a 17" new iMac.
     
  20. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2001
    Location:
    Canada
    #20
    15" CRT iMac is not going away.

    17" iMac is NOT going to happen, just look to the "Molar" for reasons why its design won't work.

    17: LCD will happen just a matter of when

    1) re: cutting pro sales. Do not assume that pros are too stupid to decide which machine is best for them. They should not have ot b forced to buy a machine that is more than they need just to fit them into little boxes about what a pro machine is or what a consumer machine is. Only one yer ago a pro would have killed for the specs in an LCD imac. I doubt that many of those users have changed their work flow or requirments by then. Let people buy the computer that is best for them

    2) Redesign issues.

    A) Weight???? have any of you posting actually tried to lift one of these new iMacs.... a 17" LCD will come NO where close to tipping this thing. a 19" would still be ok without any added weight.

    C) the arm??? easy change. Possible longer and a slight increase inthe tension. Nothing that even a backyard mechanic couldn't do. This thing is very well engineered. To say that re-engineering a simple thing like a monitor change is not possible is an insult to the original engineers.

    B) Form vs function... probably the best argument of why it may not happen (though I still think it will). In my opinion I don't think it is that big of an issue for the LCD iMac. The idea of a 17" CRT iMac... no question... It will look bulky and lose its intimacy and cute factor. But the LCD monitor on the new iMac just floats infront of the base. When using it (Yes I work on one) you don't even notice the base, it disapears and all you are left with is the screen. The only area of issue would be from the side or by someone not using the cumputer.
     
  21. arn
    thread starter macrumors god

    arn

    Staff Member

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    #21

    http://www.freesoftware.fsf.org/mldonkey/

    arn
     
  22. macrumors 6502a

    wsteineker

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2001
    Location:
    Montgomery, AL
    #22
    A new idea...

    I haven't had a mac for long, but I have followed these boards for a while and I am a marketing major. Follow me on this one for a minute. Apple needs to hit the low end market, and they need to do so in such a fashion as to provide sub-$1000 machines to the web surfin' and word processin' crowd. Why don't they start some sort of "certified used mac" initiative. It works for car companies, and it could work for computers too. Think about it. 3rd party vendors have been taking trade-ins and selling them back as refurbs for a while now, and at quite a pretty profit. If Apple were to take this idea and bring it in house, adding the requisite "Apple touch" it could be a goldmine. I have a G4 450 Cube that MORE than meets every need I have (web, e-mail, word processing). Hell, I even run GoLive without a hitch. These machines are still quite viable for the low end market, especially if Apple keeps working the ease of use, integration, and megahertz myth angles. This solves everyones problems, really. Pros keep their towers, iMac sales stay steady, and the true budget buyer has a realistic option as well. Macs get into homes, OS X gets onto desktops, and everyone can afford to get a piece of the action. Current owners looking to trade up can get a break on a new model. Apple makes money on both ends of the deal. It may sound crazy, but I honestly think that it would work. Oh well, just my 2 cents.
     
  23. macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Location:
    NH
    #23
    I wonder if the weight of the 17" LCD would make the imac tip...
     
  24. Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2001
    Location:
    VA
    #24
    There would be an increased weight issue invloved, but it could also be anchored by a heavier base. Apple would never release an iMac or any computer that could have such an obvious design flaw.
     
  25. macrumors 68000

    Spock

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