Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by flopticalcube, May 7, 2013.
Overpriced college tuition has to account for some of it. Add to the fact that the market is over saturated with the same graduates fighting for the same few jobs. I bet if these over educated grads went to plumbing school there would be a ton of jobs.
I am a University lecturer. I live my job, but a plumber gets paid way more than I do.
Plumber's get paid more than most! And sparkies.
I used to be a university lecturer - and loved it, and was very good at it. However, unless you are at the very top of that particular esoteric tree, it cannot be said that the remuneration on offer was a major motivating factor in choosing that life, because it wasn't.
However, on the wider issue under discussion, I would argue that the economic choices we have made (or have had inflicted upon us) have contributed to this dreadful outcome.
In pursuit of the economic holy grail of increased profit, (unconstrained by petty national boundaries or anything as limiting as regulation) and shareholder value, to the exclusion of all else, the global financial markets have created a world where the wholesale annihilation of jobs and erosion of rights has been allowed to take place.
This is a world where the tasteless celebration of grotesque but perfectly legal practices such as offshore tax havens, and legitimate 'tax avoidance' schemes are encouraged. A world where hideously high levels of unemployment are the inevitable consequence of dreadful economic and fiscal policies, a world governed by a set of assumptions which can be said to be morally bankrupt, socially worthless, economically egregious, and corrosive of community bonds. For it is a world where the very concept of employment, as we knew and understood it, as our parents understood the term, (and indeed, yearned for), has been fatally undermined. This is because the jobs we knew, and defined as such are gone, destroying the societies which gave rise to them, and which they, in turn, sustained.
For jobs that is, jobs, or employment, in the old sense that our parents understood the word. This encompassed something of the idea of an employment contract - where the contract was buttressed by social, and civic assumptions (and by legal requirements, too, say, the provision of sick days, pensions, soppy stuff like that). Of course, this was an employment contract which, above all, was based on economics - the sort of 'normal' notion of what an economic exchange means, whereby an exchange of labour (or goods) took place in return for for a guaranteed - fought for - income.
And, as an aside, there was none of this warped nonsense of 'internships', a truly grotesque idea and cynical mendacious twisting of what used to be a useful term, to describe a brief, temporary work experience, which might be made permanent, but which, at the least, afforded some sort of mutual benefit. It is worth noting that the innocuous term 'internship' is almost always used, rather then the more robust term of 'apprenticeship', because, of course, at the end of an apprenticeship, an apprentice - however poorly paid - could have a reasonable hope of advancement and formal recognition in his or her chosen field.
This is in marked contrast to many of the current cynically mendacious arrangements masquerading under the meek term 'internships' which are, in reality, more usually, the greediest forms of insulting exploitation devised by modern markets. Working without wages, or working for nothing used to have another name, when it was known as 'slavery', or 'indentured work', or 'serfdom' or at its simplest, 'gross exploitation' or any of the horrible medieval terms which tied individuals to lord and land, where the obligations owed all went one way and the rights enjoyed (and enforced, often with great cruelty) the other.
The old notion of work, and jobs, - and perish the thought - the 'dignity of labour' all came with hard-fought for rights, rights steadily being dismantled across the western world with the patronising palaver that such conditions can no longer be afforded.
Instead, without much thought, we have conspired in the destruction of classical manufacturing jobs, the steady decline in agriculture, (and mechanisation of same) along with the obliteration of much of the old classically trained trades, (which conferred both status and the opportunity to earn a decent income to those who worked in them). Taken together, all of this has combined to wreck the career paths for many whose first choice might not be an academically inclined one.
Unfortunately, for businesses, it is cheaper to move manufacturing to say, China, (where regulation is weak, and eyes averted to grotesquely amoral treatment of staff), that to retain it in the western world. Even more unfortunately, ease of movement of global capital, and desire for profit to the exclusion of all else, mean that it is far cheaper (and much more rewarding) to invest in land, or diamonds, or off shore accounts, or wars, or sheer adrenaline fuelled speculation, than it is to invest in anything so mundane anywhere on the planet, such as, say, manufacturing.
Until we begin to question the fundamental assumptions behind untrammelled and unconstrained global financial markets which laud and practice the pursuit of profit to the exclusion of all else without any accompanying obligation to invest in a country which permits the acquisition of such wealth in ever decreasing numbers of human hands, or pay any sort of tax, (and defend the right to behave in such a way with ferocious fervour), we will continue to create societies where most of our inhabitants are superfluous to the requirements of global capital.
You are thinking too much from a Western (particularly US) perspective. This is a global problem that exists in countries with free or even no post-secondary education. Even the market for plumbers can get over-saturated.
It seems to swing back every decade or so. College graduates soak the market so the jobs dry up. They move to the trades where there are jobs until that market gets soaked up. Back and forth we go.
Here in Canada the corporations are bringing in foreign workers at slashed wages. On top of that there is major underemployment. Also added is that people arent dieing/retiring fast enough. The youth have no where to get a start in the market. My wifes brother was looking for 8 months to get a ****** just out of high school job. When he finally got one it was part time.
If you had read the article you would know that its those who have not even graduated high school that are swelling the ranks. Forget college, it doesn't exist outside of the Western world for most youth. 25% of the inactive youth are South Asian women to whom there is no chance of either education or gainful employment.
I can see this becoming a huge issue in the near future. With massive levels of unemployed or underemployed youth worldwide we are fostering a powder keg.
In the United States, far too few students are pursuing STEM degrees.
That in itself is a problem.
This article has it wrong. Come to Silicon Valley where I work. Many STEM jobs go unfilled and salaries continue to rise to attract the best and brightest. Engineering and Computer Science graduates can find work immediately at $75k+ a year.
Oh, in my personal experience as an engineer, I agree.
However as so many on this forum love to point out, anecdotes fall by the wayside as compared to studies and statistics.
I think it's going to be this way for the foreseeable future.
I'm a contractor for the government in the comp sci field. Even with threats of sequestration and a government hiring freeze I can't fill 6 positions for qualified engineers.
Silicon Valley would have been fun, but I don't think I was motivated enough to succeed there. Plus, my young and fired up years were spent in the military.
Question...do you think it's unreasonable to have others request documentation (objective studies and research) to support anecdotal reports.
I have the impression, quite possibly incorrect, that you are denigrating requests to support anecdotal reports with more scientific evidence?
Not at all.
Like I said, based on my personal experience, I would have thought the same thing. However, instead of just posting what I would've thought to be true, as unsubstantiated fact, I looked into it, and linked to an article that contrasted my experience.
Is a diploma still as valuable today as it was 10 years ago? If graduates can't get the jobs they are after.
Education is always valuable.
I am not saying it is not, but can you learn without going to college. The internet is a huge chest of information.
Maybe so, but most jobs actually require a degree (although there are some fields where experience and knowledge alone will get you the job).
And a repository of an astounding, almost incomprehensible, amount of misinformation...
"The trouble with information on the Internet is that you can never know if it's genuine." -- Abraham Lincoln
If I had more knowledge than a person with a diploma and proved it yet they hired the person with the diploma does that mean the diploma is worth it's weight? I think ability should be weighed more than just the diploma. Why should kids end college deep in debt from paying for an over priced tuition then have to fight for a job that they might not get. Other than being a business and colleges fighting over how much money they get each year what good is college now a days?
Maybe that's where Speilberg did his research for the movie.
The most depressing thing about this article is that I'm no longer considered a 'young person'.
Histories way of dealing with this imbalance is too have a major war.
But given nuclear weapons that's a bit drastic.
Pre 2005 one of the ways that was used across Western Europe to fight youth unemployment, was a combination of early retirement, and cutting the hours of workers in exchange for free days.(ATV) It was this policy which ended the 1982 depression here.
But today people are told to work longer until 67 years in some cases.
Given the fact that a whole generation is growing up with absolutely no future. If you take hope away from people thing start to get ugly very quickly.
I can see in the future if this is not solved correctly there could be a return to very hard left ideas.
After all, A little bit of something, is better than nothing at all.