[360] Nice price reduction for PS3 launch

Discussion in 'Games' started by Haoshiro, May 16, 2006.

  1. macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #1
    This is a quote taken from an interview with Peter Moore on Joystiq:

    This of course isn't definitive until the PS3 actually launches, but a very good indicator not to hold your breath if that's what you are waiting for before buying a 360!
     
  2. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #2
    Sigh. If you are waiting for a price drop, I can promise you that you WILL GET ONE EVENTUALLY. The 360 isn't going to be $299/399 forever. It might not be this year, but they will lower the price eventually.

    If you think that $300 or $400 is too much for a game machine this isn't going to change that. All it does is move your timeframe out a bit longer, and make you look at other systems (Wii, Xbox1, whatever).

    I still believe that they will either launch the HDDVD drive add on at a lower than expected price point, or upgrade the bundles without changing the prices. The PS3 is more expensive, but offers more at each price point than the 360 does. Lowend you get a HDD and [some form of] BluRay playback. Highend you get complete BluRay and a larger HDD. I can see the Core getting the HDD and the premium getting the HDDVD drive bundled in for the same price, if the HDDVD drive and HDD add-on prices are kept competitive.
     
  3. thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #3
    Well sure, a price reduction at some point is inevitable.

    I posted this because many people (not just you) have had the idea/thought/assumption that the price reduction would happen at the time of PS3 launch while this seems to make it pretty clear there won't be.

    I wouldn't be surprised of MS was going to reduce the price but the fortunate high price of PS3 made them change their minds, heh.

    I'm not ready to adopt any HD format and probably won't until the next next-gen, personally.
     
  4. macrumors 6502

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    #4
    As far as i'm concerned by the looks of things i'd pay 1000 bucks for the PS3 and the Xbox would have to be 200 for me to consider it. No Gran Turismo. nothing can take that game away from me
     
  5. macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #5
    Didn't Microsoft get some racing game that was better than GT? better graphics, more tracks, even car licences GT couldn't get? I forget the name. But from what I heard it urinated all over GT.


    My brother is waiting for this price drop too. I might get my 360 about then.
     
  6. thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #6
    jimmi, you are thinking of Forza Motorsport. But GT fans are dedicated, there could be a better racer out there but they would not care.

    Same goes for many other games, Madden, etc.
     
  7. macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    All the more reason for me to not wait. Things are looking good for the weekend. :D
     
  8. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #8
    Forza or something maybe? Not really into racing games...

    Anyways, I'm throwing my support (and dollars) behind HDDVD. Aside from the the (hopefully/presumably) lower price of the discs (due to lower manufacturing costs), the hope/promise that they will be dual layer with standard DVDs on the "backside" is enough for me. (Sony's talk of BR discs with iPod and PSP files on the disc does nothing for me... DVD = universal standard now, so I can lend the disc out, take it places, watch it in the bedroom w/o HDTV/HDDVD without havign to get a second copy).

    Also, I've never counted on a price cut for MS this year. Someone else mentioned it and I was interested in the support for it. What I have been predicting, and hoping for, is a rebundling of products at the same pricepoints in order to get HDDVD drives out into more hands and to counter the "PS3 has HD movie player built in" argument, and also the "Core is the only system without HDD" argument.

    $400 for the Premium w/ HDDVD would be a great value, and wouldn't really change the loss per console that much ($400 last year minus drop in production costs - cost of DVD drive + cost of HDDVD drive). Same goes for Core + 20gb HDD.
     
  9. thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #9
    If that is true, that there can be a backwards-compatible DVD layer on HD-DVD discs, then that is definitely great news! I haven't heard of any such support but if it could and would be done then that is a definite benefit. I'd be willing to support the format then, since it has a much better chance of success.

    I wouldn't get a player any time soon, but I'd still be in favor of the format.
     
  10. macrumors 6502a

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  11. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #11
    Assuming you are replying to the DVD/HDVD pressed onto opposite sides of the same disc... Yes, it's true that it is a technicaly possibility. The same machines (upgraded) are used to press HDDVDs as regular DVDs (unlike BR which needs a whole new fabrication system). Both DVD and HDDVD are double sided formats, and so they can both be made on the same press, and then glued together back to back.

    It's unclear how much this will cost, and how many studios will take advantage of it, but there will be at least some out there. My guess is it will start of being a bit more than the HDDVD movies are, but slowly drop in price while they phase out regular DVDs. This way, those who have just a DVD player still will be buying discs that will work in the old player, and when they are ready to upgrade to HD will look at their collection, see a dozen HD titles already in it, and buy that format player.

    That's the theory at least. Could work if they get the price right.
     
  12. macrumors 603

    2nyRiggz

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    #12
    They won't drop the price...they already think they have an advantage over the PS3 by being cheaper.....the sony people will still buy...i dont think anybody will be changing their mind yet.

    I have a 360 so the price drop doesn't concern me....drop the price of the wireless controller then we will talk.


    Bless
     
  13. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #13
    I finally read the interview over lunch, and two of the things he talks about are the "added value" of BluRay and also "cost reduction every year".

    To elaborate, he says that every year they will be reducing the cost to make the 360, duh. He also talks about the value BluRay adds to the PS3... is it $100, 200, 300? Then he goes on to make the comment you quoted.

    To me this reinforces my theory that the prices won't change but the bundling will. They are lowering production costs, and are also taking into account the value the "enemy" is offering. They are prepared to offer a similar value, in terms of what the system can do, and are taking steps to include this value at current production costs vs. sale price.

    My official prediction is in early November, the Core and Premium packages will be upgraded to:
    Core - $299
    20gb HDD
    Wireless controller

    Premium - $399
    HDDVD drive

    HDDVD add-on - $129
     
  14. macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #14
    There will NOT be an HD-DVD drive inside the 360. Period. This would cause fragmentation of the 360 market as some developers might start developing HD-DVD-specific versions of their games (or eschewing DVD altogether).

    But I can see where the HD sizes for the 360 will be increased to 80 GB or 100 GB, just to say "our HDs are bigger than Sony's HDs"... and I think the Core package will just be eliminated completely.
     
  15. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #15
    There's nothing to say they can't put the drive in the 360. Nothing at all. MS can simply say that you can't release that game if it's not on DVD, as HDDVD drives can read DVDs as well (there are two optical devices inside the current HDDVD drives - one "red" and one "blue" for DVD/HDDVD respectively). That's like saying that because the 360 can output HD that some developers will make games that ONLY work in HD, so people with SD TVs can't use them.

    It's nonsense. MS dictates what the developers can and can't do, or they simply don't grant the game the approval it needs to be released (which is this case means they don't sign the executable, and the game won't launch).

    Now, they may CHOOSE not to put the HDDVD drive into the 360 at first, but they will eventually, if it makes financial sense for them to do it. The Core will stick around, I think, but basically as the non-HDDVD version. It'll go away once they can get the Premium package + HDDVD out the door for $299, though. Then again, they may keep the core around to compete with the Wii at $199. Who knows.
     
  16. macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #16
    Once again clayj and I are sharing our hive mind today and I agree completely. :)

    All discussion on 360 price drops was really prior to E3 and the Sony's pricing announcement. With the pricing rift between the two consoles (the 'delta'), the reason to lower the 360 price is much less.

    However, something will probably happen around November, be it a price drop, bundle, free game, etc with a 360 purchase just to get Microsoft some ink and steal some press time from the P$3. Something like the first run of the 360s -- like mine -- that came with the free multimedia remote control.

    And the Core must die. Die! :D
     
  17. MRU
    macrumors demi-god

    MRU

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    #17
    Either way they arent going to announce a price drop 6 months before are they :rolleyes: and then have 6 months of stagnated sales :rolleyes:

    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  18. macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #18
    I agree that there's no TECHNICAL reason why Microsoft can't start equipping 360s with HD-DVD drives. But they won't do it for a few reasons:

    1. Increased production costs...
    2. ... which would translate into increased retail costs. (Or a slower ability to decrease costs. This applies to both #1 and #2.)
    3. Not requiring customers to pay for technology they don't need (e.g., HD-DVD) allows Microsoft to maintain the moral high ground and slam Sony for doing that very thing (with Blu-Ray).
    4. In case HD-DVD does lose the Format War, Microsoft will still be using the universal standard, DVD, and can easily shift to Blu-Ray.

    Until one format or the other wins, it's a mistake for Microsoft *or* Sony to force customers to choose (and pay more for) a specific format. Keeping the HD-DVD add-on an add-on makes the most sense.
     
  19. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #19
    Again, I would really like to hear your theory about WHY MS couldn't have built in HDDVD drives? They read DVDs just fine, and either way they will have to require all games to be on DVD media; and they are in the position to REQUIRE it. Xbox games can't get released without MS approval. Period.

    But, otherwise, I agree, about a week or two pre-PS3 release there will be something to get the 360 in the news and in peoples minds along with the PS3.

    1. Which is why the Core system won't go anywhere.
    2. They don't need to drop prices, as mentioned in the original quote. They are already significantly cheaper than Sony. They can add value and keep the price the same.
    3. See #1.
    4. MS isn't going to switch to BluRay even if it comes out the 'winner' with the 360. The 360 games will read just fine in an HDDVD drive. By the time one of the two formats comes out as a standard, the players will be cheap enough it won't matter for movies. If it was BluRay, they can chose to use it next time around or not.

    The BluRay/HDDVD choice is going to be completely irrelevant in 2-3 years. There will be sub $100 players on the market by then. It only matters RIGHT NOW which one a game system has. It's not a mistake to foist one or the other on consumers early. For a lot of people the video format the game system of their choice has will determine what they end up supporting. MS needs to convince people that the 360 is the one they want, and with that they get HDDVD as well... that's how one or the other will come out on top.

    Also, for the record, your first objection to the HDDVD has nothing to do with any of these points. I'm not saying MS WILL put the 360 in the system, but they certainly can, and probably should is all.
     
  20. macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #20
    Actually, even if the Core system is kept, having to maintain two separate production lines for DVD 360s and HD-DVD 360s *will* cause a rise in production costs. Right now, the only difference in the box between a Core 360 and a Premium 360 is the color of the facia on the DVD drive they install. If you start having DVDs or HD-DVDs, you're really talking about having to maintain two completely different assembly lines.
     
  21. macrumors 68000

    Abulia

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    #21
    1. But now introduce a third SKU, the premium w/ a HD-DVD drive, clear out old premium inventory, the add-on SKU, AND the Core SKU that no one wants?
    2. Problem here is that they're already losing money on the 360 on a per unit basis. Give away the razors to sell the blades. Adding HD-DVD only further increases production costs and defers the break-even point, only to benefit a handful of users who don't want HD-DVD, understand what its for, etc.

    Name 1 multi-disc Xbox title for me. Now name 1 multi-disc PS2 title for me.

    There's no reason to move to HD-DVD as a storage medium, MS has said this. Heck, I think even the developers have said this. DVD compression is good enough to provide them with all the space that they need. And *if* they had to ship a game on multiple discs the costs of DVD are so cheap that it's a non-issue.

    Look at Oblivion, a game that was rumored at one point to be on SIX discs. Shipped for the 360 on one.

    The Core may die (and I hope it does), or there could certainly be a HD-DVD "bundle," but the HD-DVD drive will never be built into the 360 nor a "value added extra" at no cost. MS has stated as much and, IMO, that's the best business strategy to take as well.

    Also, I'd have to research this, but I don't think MS has any vested interest in HD-DVD the way that Sony does; they (MS) aren't in a position to 'gain' or 'lose' anything should a format win. I believe they've officially backed the HD-DVD format but, like Apple, have to be positioned to support whomever gets dominate marketshare (or both).
     
  22. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #22
    HDDVD drives are just IDE drives, same as the DVD drive in the 360 is now. The cost of stuffing in either generic brand IDE DVD drive or generic brand IDE HDDVD into the case at production time would be completely negligable. We're talking maybe pennies per unit for the addition administrative overhead to order different drives, and make sure they are tracked seperately. The actual production would change precisely 0, it's not like MS owns some factory that's assembling DVD drives just for the 360... they buy them form the lowest bidder by the million.
     
  23. macrumors 604

    clayj

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    #23
    Hive mind says you are correct, sir.

    Toshiba is the prime backer of the HD-DVD standard... Microsoft and Intel are just along for the ride, if for no other reason than (in Microsoft's case) to oppose Sony in the console wars. But Microsoft has no monetary investment in HD-DVD.

    I guarantee you right now there's a team of developers (maybe just one or two) working on Blu-Ray support for drives for Windows Vista and the Xbox 360... just in case they need it. (In fact, some of the new Sony PCs coming out this summer have Blu-Ray drives installed... so we know Windows will support Blu-Ray.)
     
  24. thread starter macrumors 68000

    Haoshiro

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    #24
    He is just saying that using two different kinds of drives will increase production costs.

    That's because they way MS has setup the SKUs it almost does not effect manufacturing. The HDD is an addon that snaps onto the "top" of the system. That means essentially all 360 systems can come from the same assembly line.

    Then they take the system and package it with the addon (which you put on yourself), the headset, and the wireless remote in order to make a "Premium" bundle.

    Using two different drives makes that no longer possible. So in short, all 360 systems are the same, just the Premium is packaged with different accessories.
     
  25. macrumors 601

    mrgreen4242

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    #25
    I'm not saying they need a new SKU. I'm saying that they CHANGE the current Premium and Core bundles. Of course there will be old stock systems that will have to move their way out of the supply chain, but it'll be a blip in the grand scheme.

    The cost of making a 360 has dropped, it's just a question of wether they are willing to continue to take the same loss per system by upping the ante in the bundle.

    I am also not suggesting they will ever release a game on HD-DVD. They won't. It's simply for media playback. MS wants the 360 to be a media hub for everything you do. They've said so in the past, and they continue on that path.

    They have invested some cash into the HD-DVD format, pushing vendors towards it, etc, but have hedged their bets a bit with BR, I'm sure. They fought to get WMV9 format included in both formats as an approved codec, for example.

    This year, I expect them to try and use up all the exisiting supply of the current Core and Premium packages, and offer just the external drive both seperately or in a bundled price. Into next year though, I'm betting on them integrating the drives into at least some of the systems.

    I'll be the first to come here and pull up this thread and say I was wrong if that's the case.

    I'm saying that MS clearly sees the value added proposition that Sony is giving with the BluRay drive, and they are going to want to compete with that. Selling an external drive will work, but it's not very cost effective. You have the drive, the casing, the power supply, and the cabling. You have to pass that along to the consumer, which doesn't help the value-added concept.

    Putting it into the system is practically 0 cost, which would allow them to pass on a greater value to the consumer, which is going to help them appear to be a better deal than the PS3 and, they hope, ship more units.
     

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