A day in the life of Joe Republican.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by blackfox, Sep 27, 2004.

  1. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #1
    I am not sure if any of you have run across this on the Intraweb, but I found it worth posting...FWIW

     
  2. Chip NoVaMac macrumors G3

    Chip NoVaMac

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    #2
    I laughed, I cried. This is a great piece.

    I wonder how many that say government is too big, and putting its nose where it shouldn't; be willing to give up on so much that the "liberal's" fought for.
     
  3. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #3
    Combine the population NOT living in California, Alaska, Nevada, Washington State, Oregon, the New England states, Arizona and New Mexico. Then extract 90% of the non-white voters and 60% of the women and what's left is Joe... even if he's registered Democrat. The middle of this country is Conservative. Conservatives will vote Republican this fall unless something brilliant is done to convince them that Bush is ambiguous and/or incredibly, undeniably dishonorable.
     
  4. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #4
    You repeatedly make a case for a litigious society.
     
  5. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #5
    thatnks for the 2 amusing reads...the first because of being cynical and the other for picturing the United states of Lawye...err.. i mean American nicley

    have you noticed how often the word 'lawsuit' or 'sue' appearsin your version ?... am i the only one who finds that amusing ? ;)
     
  6. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #6
    stell -- what evidence is there that people can't afford cars? isn't car ownership at an all time high?
     
  7. edesignuk Moderator emeritus

    edesignuk

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    #7
    I find it very funny, and very sad at the same time. I'm sorry to say we seem to be becoming more and more like this in the UK. Everyone is scared of their own shadow in case some idiot decides something is someone elses fault, and wants to sue them!

    Schools are terrified of taking kids on school trips, allowing them in the swimming pool etc. Just in case the dumb ass kid manages to hurt themselves and the pathetic parents decide that it's not their dear, sweet, childs fault for not looking where they're going, but the fault of the teachers for not holding the kids hand every step of the way! :eek: :rolleyes:

    ...really bugs me...
     
  8. blackfox thread starter macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #8
    Stilliform, considering, I have to ask what your opinion is of the Bush Administration's stance on law-suits...

    As for the truth of my initial posting:

    The truth is in the rhetoric,not the letter (as often is the case)...you'd think these days that would be easy to understand...
     
  9. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #9
    i had 2 courses on university about such things (how our system here works but mainly about legal situation with computers etc.) well the professor wasn't very gently in his use of words over the US legal system...especially how the US courts can 'make' laws...and of course the lawsuits with their absolutly ridioulus high demands of compensation payments

    doesn't the US have the highest amount ( per capita ) of layers
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    Like that's bloody likely! When have you known businesses to line up to pay MORE to help their employees out? Not to mention paying money for city services voluntarily? How many businesses have eagerly gone out and paid for improving an intersection, or adding needed parking when they DIDN'T need a permit of some kind from the city?

    Government is the place for this kind of decision that costs and benefits everyone to take place. Businesses (and other affected groups) certainly have their place at the table, but don't count on them to push the issue.
     
  11. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #11
    so first someone dies because of the bad bacon then we all benefit
    except the owner of the bacon factory changes the name and sells more bad cheap bacon
    and we have to wait the five years the law suit takes before we get good bacon
    and we have to have a lawsuit for every bacon factory

    and people that can't afford to initial outlay for a well go thirsty or they pay inflated prices to a private water concern with questionable water

    What a lovely world! regulation by litigation and only after the fact

    why not sell the drug now that has harmful side-effects seen only after years of use?

    who is going to pay for the long term study that reveals the side effects - certainly not the poor schlub who is sick and getting sicker because of the drug

    in practice the libertarian ideal has a LOT of problems

    and Stelliform if you look at the history of public transportation, which in New York at least, was initially private, you'll see why it became public. Though the public conversion was not without corruption and graft neither was the private version. THe public version has worked remarkably well.

    You might also want to look at the privatization of British rail and the marked increase in rail accidents.

    ------------------------

    There is a history here. Look at the US pre 1900 for your ideal land without government regulation. Why is it that there was a push for public water supplies, public safty regulation and food regulation? Read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.
     
  12. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #12
    But capping medical lawsuits' rewards would have the inevitable side effect of capping compensation for malicious doctors, too. I had a doctor when I was a kid who repeatedly and deliberately misdiagnosed and mistreated me for my asthma because he was an egomaniac.

    Proper care could have reversed my condition. As it is, I stand likely to lose years of my life, not to mention the quality of life issue.
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Yeah, like:

    the natural effect high population density and high car ownership leans to chokingly thick traffic congestion which leads to political pressure on the city to solve the problem and if the city is lucky and can come up with the funds, they'll get a (initially VERY unpopular) public transportation system that is so thorough and well designed that the citizens will no longer need to own a car, let alone be required to sit in stopped-up traffic everyday just to get to work.

    However, more commonly, politically safe (and cheaper) stopgap solutions (adding more lanes, bypasses or bus routes) are employed which may temporarily alleviate the problem but inevitably end up worsening the congestion and air pollution. Riding a bike to get around goes from being an option to tantamount to playing Russian Roulette.

    So Joe most likely sits in his car for half an hour to an hour everyday staring at the back of the car in front of him as he slides up and down the flow of traffic at 5mph.
     
  14. sorryiwasdreami macrumors 6502a

    sorryiwasdreami

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    #14
    This is how many Americans live their lives - in fear.

    Why? Because upper conservatives have domestically terrorized America on almost every level, and it is evident in your alterization of the original poster's prose.

    Fear breeds control. Control = power.
     
  15. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #15
    I have to admit, blackfox's version sounds more like the way life has developed in America over the last sixty years or so than the lawsuit-laden alternative version. Thanks for sharing, blackfox. Good stuff.

    wwworry makes an excellent point about not having to wait until something bad happens (and then filing a lawsuit) before doing the right thing.

    A few weeks ago, I read Molly Ivins' "Bushwhacked", and she told stories of companies that poisoned people with tainted food or that wouldn't clean up toxic waste, largely because the government under Bush is no longer on their backs. It seems to me that fear of lawsuits doesn't motivate companies that much, partially because many don't have the resources to sue, partly because the Bush administration seems bent on tort "reform" which would limit your right to sue.

    As an aside: knowing Ivins' acid wit, I was expecting her book to be something wry and amusing, along the lines of Jim Hightower. However, I have never read a book that was more angry-making in my life. If even a quarter of this country were to read some of the stuff that's in her book, Bush would be out on his can in a hurry.

    'Course, they're too busy reading "Unfit for Command".
     
  16. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #16
    I think that's reading a bit too much in Stelliforms post.
    To me it just seems as if libertarians see some sort of pre-regulatory golden age without actually looking into the conditions in pre-regulatory eras.

    To claim that similar things(poison water, price fixing, banking malfeasence, etc.) would not happen again must be to believe that people have become suddenly a lot more honest than they were 100 years ago. At the same time the libertarian/conservative will claim that people have become degraded because of all the "social engineering". It is contradictory.
     
  17. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    the libetarian fallacy: the revenue gained from cutting corners is greater than the revenue gained from increased market share from doing things right.

    attribution: me. just now.
     
  18. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #18
    or:

    why put off honest business until tomorrow when you can profit from a scam today?
     
  19. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #19
    The difference is Blackfox's version is supported by reality. All those things happened.

    Stelliforms version on the other hand is what conservatives would like you to believe how things would work out, but history has shown that it won't.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #20
    The other great libertarian fallacy: People can be trusted to act correctly in the absence of government regulation. But I need my guns because you just can't trust people.

    Well, I guess that's more of a contradiction than a fallacy... :p
     
  21. mischief macrumors 68030

    mischief

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    #21
    An unfortunate number of Libertarians seem to function on a few basic Maxims that add up to a kind of bratty, selfish mentality that makes Neocons look sympathetic:

    1. Why should I care what happens to you?

    2. I should be able to not have to pay taxes at all.

    3. I should be able to have any gun I want, anywhere, any time, under any conditions with utter impugnity, loaded, without any licensing or registration of any kind.

    4. Trust is for the weak.

    5. Aid is for the worthless.

    6. Regulation, particularly in ethics, standards and accountability are a waste because the market does all of that anyway.


    I find these to be the single most loathsome individuals I've ever had the displeasure of realizing I couldn't legally euthanize.
     
  22. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #22
    but you have to admit that almost all the product and food safety regulations that we have today happened because of legislation and not litigation.

    What you are asking us to believe is that the threat of litigation has a greater deterent effect than the surety of litigation.
    You might get sued (libertarian)
    vs.
    you will get sued or criminally prosecuted (regulated)
     
  23. wwworry macrumors regular

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    #23
    not solely but overwhelmingly mostly... (this could go on forever I apologize)

    but what about dumping your used motor oil down the sewer, whose going to sue you for that? The only basis they would have for suing you is the law and studies that show that used motor oil is bad for the system.

    The other thing is that plenty of people break the law but as many people break civil contracts etc. If there was not a fire code do you think as many people would stick to it?

    Fire code: Let's say there was no fire code and a house burnt down. The builder could claim that it was the homeowners fault that the house next door burnt down. However if there had been 2 hour fire walls between houses the house next door would not have burned down. Fire codes lower costs for insurance. Fire codes are reliable regular standards that actually save money for builders because they are predictable.

    and going back to the original post can you find (though I do not expect you will and neither would I) one instance where it was not a "liberal" advocacy group that effected the change.

    On the other hand if you want to give up on this thread I will too.
     
  24. slughead macrumors 68030

    slughead

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    #24
    I see nothing about stella's post that was libertarian aside from the legal stuff.

    A libertarian would've been against social security, for instance.

    Also, all those job "benefits" were because of the tax code and the frozen wages of WWII. If you make enough money to buy your own health care, you're in a higher tax bracket and can afford less than those crappy HMO's the company offers.

    Also, the FDA's Delays have been viewed by some to have killed way more people by criminalizing drugs than testing them. Even if Drug companies were 10% faster than the FDA, millions more people would be saved by the expedition of drug releases as would be harmed by them.

    For instance, there was a heart drug released recently said to save 18,000+ lives a year in the US alone. The problem is, it was delayed 10 years by the FDA so that means 180,000 people lost their lives in the testing process--waiting for the drug to be released. If the FDA weren't required to release a drug, it's likely the tests would've been completed to the satisfaction of the pharmaceutical company's legal department at least 2 years sooner.

    Moreover, the FDA forces drug companies to spend over $1 Billion per drug abiding by FDA regulations alone, forcing them into a government-enforced monopoly that only gigantic corporations can get into.

    But corporate welfare is OK, just as long as it's for safety, right? :mad:
     
  25. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #25
    Those self-same drug companies would have no patent protections if it wasn't for the government's enforcement of intellectual property laws. So I guess government power is okay so long as it protects the interests of corporations, right?
     

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