A Layman's Review of Tiger Preview

Discussion in 'macOS' started by swingerofbirch, Jul 12, 2004.

  1. swingerofbirch macrumors 68030

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    #1
    Hullo,

    I have been using Tiger preview for about a day now. It first would not install on my eMac, so I installed it on my Smart Disk and am running it from there.

    The speed and responsiveness seems to be comparable to that of Panther. Window moving and minimizing might even be slightly smoother.

    As others have said, I have not been able to find anywhere near 150 new features. I realize there is a year to make tweaks to this OS, but I still find it incredibly underwhelming.

    I am curious as to why this release warrants a ".1" upgrade in comparison to the previous ".1" upgrades which seemed to have far more dramatic improvements. I am also curious as to why an upgrade that seems to not have that dramatic of changes is going to take so long to complete. Perhaps there are even more changes coming. I am also curious as to why Apple would choose to verbally attack Longhorn with *this* version of Mac OS X. Why not Mac OS X in general?

    As for the new features:

    Spotlight. Spotlight does give fast responses. However, Panther's built-in search box was never too pokey for me either. Spotlight is available in the extreme right hand corner of the menu. The menu icons have traditionally been classy and minimalist. This search icon, however, looks exactly like the Start menu icon from Windows XP. It looks disjointed from the rest of the menu bar which is by now getting rather crowded. So, you search right from that box and get menu results. You can also click on Show All Results which brings up a window that has a GUI inconsistent with the rest of Mac OS X. It looks much like a window in Windows XP as well in that options are presented as hyperlinks. You can also use spotlight from a Finder window which works pretty much the same way it did in Panther with the addition of a blue bar appearing at the top of the window where you can modify the search parameters. Of note, the blue is very similar in appearance to the selected song in the Party Shuffle mode of iTunes. And then finally, there is Spotlight within Applications. The example built in is the spotlight functionality in system preferences. The spotlight effect on my eMac is not smooth like other GUI motions--perhaps because of my graphics card, or perhaps it is written that way. Either way, the graphical use of spotlight seems odd, and inconsistent.

    Safari: I can't review because it would not open on my system (I am writing from Internet Explorer).

    iChat: I can't review the new video audio multiple connection feature because no video or audio icons show up on my computer.

    Dashboard: I have used Dashboard. It works. It does what it claims to do, which is perhaps the problem. What is it really good for? I could imagine this being a piece of shareware add-on, which I have learned it apparently was (Konfabulator). The ripple effect did not work with my graphics card. Apple seems desperate to demo some visual effects with this. I didn't see a need for Dashboard and I don't see it filling a need that people didn't know they had. Perhaps it is an interesting way of looking at how applications will work in the future as far as appearing and disappearing, but that is all.

    The GUI: I was hoping that Apple would choose a GUI (Aqua or Metal) and run with it. That didn't happen. Aqua is even more subdued in this release. I supppose eventually it will return to Platinum from Mac OS 9. In a way its milky appearance is a mix between Aqua and metal. Even worse is that the Aqua interface seems to have split. Some windows have clearly marked off title bars, and some like Sys Prefs and the Search Results window just run right into the window (as do all metal windows). Like Windows, the GUI is becoming more complicated, less classy, and for those inclined, you might have to selectively lick your screen.

    The finder looks exactly the same. I prefered the classier look of Jaguar's finder window, which followed Apple's interface guidelines. Appple seems intent on breaking each one of their own GUI guidelines at this point in the game.

    At this point, Tiger to me looks like a ".5" upgrade that I might have even considered not downloading. This upgrade is uncharacteristically nonevolutionary, nonrevolutionary, and gimicky.

    At least they have a year to work on it.

    My reccomendations for Panther:

    Choose one GUI.
    Be simple.
    Be elegant.
    Be consistent.
     
  2. jimsowden macrumors 68000

    jimsowden

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    #2
    A layman shouldn't have the tiger preview. Only a developer that pays $1000s a year for ADC membership should.
     
  3. smllpx macrumors member

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    Feb 25, 2004
    #3
    Select is only $500.. and I don't think they require a test or anything, just the payment.
     
  4. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    #4
    Man you weren't kidding about the "Layman" quip

    My comments on your review

    .

    That's a very good thing. Quartz 2D extreme isn't turned on yet in the PR so things here will definitely improve.

    Of course you won't find a bunch of other stuff. Developers got the PR so that they could primarily work on the new larger SDK in Spotlight, Automator, Dashboard, .Mac Sync and Core Image and Video. Many of the features that will count in the 150 tally aren't in the PR build because they aren't necessary for developers to use the SDKs available.

    Likely because while Panther is good, Expose wasn't enough to market to people using XP. Tiger will ship with Longornlike featues but a year early. That's something Apple can highlight.


    The speed is encouraging because unlike Panther's search Spotlight will be tracking immensely more data. Right now people are getting accustomed to searching for singular files. The true power of Spotlight will be in the ability to not only search for singular files but to search plurally amongst the whole OS. While Steve didn't actually show Spotlight doing this in the keynote he did make mention that you should be able to search for strings like "all reports from science project last week" and get highly accurate results. That goes way beyond Panther search or any other OS search today. I hope Apple can do it.

    Conceptually Dashboard seems really simply on the surface. Hey it's just like Konfabulator! Is what many people think. Dashboard is much different architecturally. Unlike Konfabulator's runtime engine, Dashsboard's are built using standard web tech. CSS, DHTLM, Javascript, Flash you name it, it can be incorporated into Dashboard. But the true beauty of the API is that unlike Konfabulator, which eats up computer resources as you add more widgets, Dashboards are based on webkit which is in the OSX framework. They don't tax your CPU or RAM while they are not in use but once you hit "F12" they are quickly loaded and displayed until you are ready to whisk them away. This is so much cleaner than the Konfabulator environment. Now we just need to wait for clever programmers to develop good gagets. Keep an eye peeled for www.thedashboarder.com

    I could tell there are GUI differences between the Tiger version Steve showed and the PR you have. This leads me to believe it's still a work in progress. I'll withhold any further commentary until I've seen the UI for the Final Candidate.

    Here is where your "Layman's POV" has led you astray. Since you are not a developer you do not know OSX on a more intimate level. You are and end user and you are not concerned with the "means" of the OS but rather the "ends". Tiger PR is strictly for those who need to grok the new paradigms. Developers are keen to the changes in the OS that will affect their applications.

    Calling Tiger a .5 release is simply not seeing the forrest through the trees. There is nothing in the PR that a non developer can engage and get a "Wow" response. It is very underwhelming because of that. But mind you Developers are grinning ear to ear and that means when Tiger ships ..applications will do things that are simply impossible to do in Panther.

    I do thank you for your comments as a Computer Science Major and future Mac Developer I can see how Tiger is blah to some. But I also see how it's going to change how applicatons are developed and deployed. VERY good times are ahead.
     
  5. swingerofbirch thread starter macrumors 68030

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    #5

    I pay Apple PLENTY of money each year: buying new Macs, yearly OS upgrade, Apple Care, iTMS purchases, .Mac subscription, but I don't really have $500 to spare and wanted to check out Tiger hands on.

    If it hadn't been made available to me I would not have purchased and would have lived my life without it. I will use it for a few days and delete it. Plus, is it illegal for a WWDC attendee who got a DVD handed out to him for free to then post it on the Internet? I dunno, maybe there is some language that forbids it. But the preview certainly wasn't a secret. And I wouldn't have paid $500 for it anway. And by the time it is GM I am sure they will have added something worthy enough for me to pay my $129. I have been using Macs since I was two. I have a clean conscience.

    To the gentleman who wrote a very ginger response to my evaluation, thanks for your thoughtful ideas. I do agree with you that there is a lot under the hood that I cannot appreciate. Cheers!
     
  6. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #6

    Giving money to by buying PCs does NOT warrnt you to STEAL it. My parents pay plenty of taxes to the government every year, yet do they steal every government car they see? No.


    And remember what I said in the PM. ;)
     
  7. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #7
    Hell I don't care if you download Tiger and check it out. Apple is well aware that with P2P and Bittorrent, Tiger was going to be everywhere.

    Let's sum up Tiger right now in its PR form.

    Everything you see in Tiger right now is basic. The UI hasn't been tweaked(that's usually the last thing along with optimization)

    In fact when Tiger ships there may not be any huge featues that have you gobsmacked. But you will notice that Tiger enabled apps are suddenly doing cool thing. You'll notice that if iMove is MUCH faster and that iPhoto has a lot more effects and speed as well. You'll notice that apps suddenly have access to other application data (ie any app that needs to address something may pop up a list of all contacts in addressbook).

    Tiger's features are going to be transparent in many ways. Applications will just become more full featured and faster. You will find that you can rely on your computer more because rather than each developer segmenting their apps into little islands that don't play well with others there will be a push to share as much data as possible making your life easier.

    Search is never a big deal until you lose something vital. Spotlight is going to save peoples bacon one time or another.
     
  8. Stevp1 macrumors regular

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    Dec 8, 2003
    #8
    grok the new paradigms



    cool name for a band...
    :cool:
     
  9. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    #9
    Apple really needs to fix their GUI. It's what drew to me to Mac OS X in the first place...and they are slowly turning it into a bloated, rotting, fetid OS with several different styles of widgets, highlights, menus, backgrounds, shadows, gradients, and now they even have two version of AQUA! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON!?!?!?! Quality Control is apparently a thing of the past. So far I am absolutely UNDERWHELMED by Tiger, and have zero reason to upgrade (sure CoreImage is cool, but I can live without a 3d splash and ripple effect).
     
  10. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    Solon, OH
    #10
    I agree - what's up with the two Aqua styles? I'd much rather have plain Aqua or all metal, not a mixture of the two. However, unlike you, I consider this to be a minor annoyance - it won't stop me from buying the Tiger GM the day it's released to the public.
     
  11. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    #11
    i'm just venting. i'm sure i'll buy tiger the day it's released as well (i admit it, i'm a mac fan boy...) but they really need to fix this. it makes little difference to me, becuase i know it's just visual differences that I can fix with ShapeShifter, but THIS IS THE COMPANY THAT SELLS A ONE BUTTON MOUSE FOR SIMPLICITY!!! Don't you think all these various looks and styles to core components of the OS will confuse your average user (i.e. my parents, who i think the one button mouse was developed for).

    That said, i really like the "new" look in screen shots of Automator, etc., it kind of reminds me of Windows, but it's very refined and suttle, if they could incorporate this across the UI, i'd be very pleased. Look at the highlight in Party Shuffle and tell me that it looks like it fits with the rest of iTunes, i thought it was a joke, but they haven't fixed it.

    o and yes i know CoreImage/Video will have far more impact than a stupid ripple effect when I open gadgets (such as improved speed in iApps, integration of effects for programmers, etc), but if that's all Apple could come up with to demo this new technology, we're in for a world of hurt.

    I personally hope Longhorn drop kicks Steve Jobs in the balls, he seems to be getting a little too complacent as far as innovation and quality control are concerned, hopefully Longhorn will give OS X a few things to copy.
     
  12. swingerofbirch thread starter macrumors 68030

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    The Amalgamated States of Central North America
    #12
    Listen smirky, I have no frickin idea what this PM is you are talking about. Private message? Is there a private message mechanism on this page? You squares are all shake and seed with your piracy crap.

    Bottomline: Apple is a relatively very small company in its field. They should be so lucky as to have me having such an interest in their products that I spend hours downloading their beta. They need laymen giving them feedback on their products. Otherwise it's gonna end up looking like Windows XP on MaxiBulk 10,000.

    Anyhow, I will now go searching for whatever sweet nothings you wrote me in this private message.
     
  13. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    #13
    haha was this a reference to weed? NO STEMS NO SEEDS THAT YOU DONT NEED!!

    i agree, what exactly is he "pirating" anyways? It's a demo build, for people to evaluate...Apple should be ecstatic he is even interested enough to spend the time downloading it. You people need to get over yourselves with this "STEALING IS STEALING IS STEALING" crap...THEY ARE NOT MAKING A PROFIT OF THIS, SO WHAT EXACTLY IS HE STEALING!? A SNEEK PEAK!? get over yourselves.
     
  14. swingerofbirch thread starter macrumors 68030

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    The Amalgamated States of Central North America
    #14
    private message

    musicpyrite....I just read (found) your private message. I don't understand why you would ask me the question that you did if you are against "stealing" software. You're either confused or trying to do something tricky, like entrapment. Either way, you can figure out the answer to the question you asked me without me.
     
  15. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

    Joined:
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    #15
    nothing like condeming pirates for their actions, then asking them to send you the file. hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.
     
  16. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #16
    I didn't ask him to send me the file.
     
  17. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #17
    If Apple wanted the whole world to to have a beta version of Tiger, they would mail everybody a DVD with Tiger on it. But they didn't.

    Your say Apple is not making any profit off of this? For the most part, I agree, but even though Apple might not make any profit off of this, it WILL hurt Apple if Apple just gave away DVDs like you want them too.

    Why?

    Because people whould rather have a buggy beta version of Tiger as their main OS, then pay 129$ for the final version.
    (even the beta version of Tiger is more stable than that POS OS M$ calls 'XP')
     
  18. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #18
    Back to the UI. Apple does need to instill some consistency here. Brushed alu windows sometimes spawn aqua windows and perhaps vice versa. That is too jolting(or perhaps revolting). Dammit Steve make up your mind or give us the option to move to an all metal UI or all Aqua. Hell I think SJ would engender good will if he actually assisted Themers with an API or toolkit so they don't have to cause instability by hacking the OS
     
  19. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #19
    I use XP as well as Mac OS X - although it isn't as stable as Mac OS X has been for me, it's "good enough" for what I use it for. I've only gotten two BSODs so far on my Windows machine.
     
  20. musicpyrite macrumors 68000

    musicpyrite

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    #20
    I was sort of exaggerating that comment...

    I've also used XP quite a bit, and find it to be fairly stable and reliable, I just tend to make it seem like it is worse than it actually is because of stupid ***** M$! :mad: :mad:
     
  21. zakee00 macrumors regular

    zakee00

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    #21
    i agree, xp is stable on my machine...with proper maintenence. but i havent had ANY BSOD's on my powerbook :)
     
  22. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #22
    Yes, the WWDC attendee broke the Non-Disclosure Agreement, which is legally-binding. He should never have made the preview available to anyone else.
     
  23. HarbV7.0 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    #23
    Ok, the way I see it, no a layman will not appreciate a lot of the extra features Tiger will have. As someone who works in a large IT environment included Servers that are at least 90 percent Mac I welcome the changes.

    Metadata is one thing Longhorn is boasting as having. If Apple can bring it out in a year before M$... more power to them. Perhaps a lot of you don't fully appreciate what this can do... but on a server with over a TB of data it's huge! And that's just one feature.

    I have to admit I'm more interested in what the Server product will be capable of. Panther has helped and the addition of Kerberos authentication and other real world "this is what I expect a Server to do" ( AD integration, single login, etc) additions has helped. Also UNIX is a very powerfull Server platform and Apple is just starting to harvest it. Just imagine a Beowulf cluster of them!

    Still until Apple makes a few more changes to the server product we will still have to run the Windows servers we have and every yearly review they'll send me off to keep my MCSE up to date...

    Funny, I'll admit I got my job when OS X just came out and they needed someone who was M$ AND a Linux guy which I was and am to this day. Still the more I use Apple products the more I love them. I am a switcher and Apple needs to grab more guys like me to get Mac in the corporate environment and Tiger is headed in the right direction.

    The fact that we run the entire agency (multiple locations, lots of users) with just 3 guys speaks volumes for Apple. In a Windows environment we'd need AT LEAST twice as many guys. Oh and my favorite is when someone gets spam from our domain (spoofed from field) and we get a call from another IT dept saying "you may want to check that user for a virus, just in case". I simple say, no their on a Mac, that's impossable :)
     
  24. wrldwzrd89 macrumors G5

    wrldwzrd89

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    #24
    Well of course you haven't :) Mac OS X doesn't HAVE a BSOD. The Mac OS X equivalents are the various kernel panic messages ("You need to restart your computer", "We are hanging here", "Waiting for remote debugger connection", etc.). I got a whole bunch of those when I first got my iMac, but haven't had one since the cause (corrupt PMU settings) was fixed. I've only had two situations that required a hard restart - both were mouse cursor freezes on the login screen.
     
  25. cb911 macrumors 601

    cb911

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    BrisVegas, Australia
    #25
    Hullo,

    why do people who've just DL'd the Tiger preview feel the compelling urge to all write their own reviews? this is pre-release software, it's going to change alot (for the better i hope) before it's released.

    also, why do people have to keep 'boasting' that they've got the Tiger pre-release? it's there, so just let the kiddies get it and mess about, but i really dont' understand why they'd want to advertise the fact that they've got it... :rolleyes:

    if everyone just shut up about the Tiger pre-release, and let the developers do the talking everyone would be much happier. basically i'm just pissed that all of these wannabe Devs keep writing their 'reviews'. :mad:
     

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