A new Judas emerges from rediscovered gospel

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by IJ Reilly, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #1
    http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi.../a_new_judas_emerges_from_rediscovered_gospel

    As a non-Christian I am fascinated by this text, which appears to alter one of the principle stories in the gospels in a quite fundamental way. Yet it has remained virtually unknown for the simple reason one person declared it heretical 1,800 years ago (along with other gospels). How does this affect the literalist view of the Bible, in particular, I wonder? It is a missing piece of the Bible, or does it remain heretical?
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    Can't be real... otherwise the Bible is fallible.

    But yes, absolutely fascinating from a historical standpoint.
     
  3. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #3
    There are plenty of other early Christian books that were excluded from the canonical Bible, and even some inconsistencies in the four gospels that were. I'm looking forward to the show tomorrow, as this is a major historical find.

    FWIW Thomas Cahill's "Desire of Everlasting Hills: The World Before and After Jesus" discusses the history of the Church and the Bible at these early times, and part of his series of "fringes of history" popular history books.

    B
     
  4. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #4
    Nobody seems to question whether it's real. The issue is whether it's true. It seems to me that a lot of what modern Christians believe today is founded on a decision made by one man 1,800 years ago about which gospels were acceptable and which were not. Can Christian beliefs (dare I say it?) evolve, as new information comes along? Or must they continue to reject the Gnostic gospels as heretical, because that's what the Church did way back when?
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    To be fair, it was a committee...
    It would never do for the Church either to admit that many of the Gnostic teachings predated JC, or that all those heretics were burnt in vain.
     
  6. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    Now there's a heartening thought. Everybody got to recommend a gospel for inclusion or rejection. I wonder if they made motions and voted?
     
  7. WildCowboy Administrator/Editor

    WildCowboy

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    #7
    They did have to put their heads down when they voted...no peeking!
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    you do dare. and i was wondering the same thing.

    the new story may be problematic. every good story needs a villian, and with judas cleared of all wrongdoing, that leaves the romans as the villians.

    but wait! we can't have the story of jesus being that of a struggle of an unarmed, peaceful man taking on a government interested only in maintaining power and putting down insurrection. that would be a little too dangerous in today's world.
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    It was an incredibly long drawn-out process, but yes, essentially that's what happened. But different canonical selections have been made every so often from 100AD till the present day - what with the Mormons and such.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
     
  10. Queso macrumors G4

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    #10
    Considering how they get together and choose God's Messenger on Earth, this really doesn't surprise me.

    Just another piece of evidence that the Church has perverted the message to it's own ends for two thousand years. When I think of today's church leaders, be they television evangelists or cardinals in The Vatican, I'm reminded what Jesus did to the moneymen in the temple.

    EDIT: Look how I've been conditioned. Did Jesus even do that? ;)
     
  11. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #11
    I'm wondering where our more religious posters are for this. As someone who's faith continues to evolve (yes, that actually is possible) this is fascinating, whether Judas was lying or not. Anyone who knows anything about how the Bible was made knows that it is not entirely infallible. There have been so many translations, and mistranslations, and changes, not to mention all of the parts that should have been included but weren't and the ones that shouldn't have been that were. The problems come when people close themselves off to the facts of what could have actually happened because they are so stuck in their belief systems, anything that challenges that myopic view is viewed with hostility.

    For those who care about what really happened back then, whether you believe Jesus was the Messiah or not, this should be a good thing. If you're one of those other people who take the Bible literally, this will destroy your belief system. If you even believe it. Which you probably wouldn't.
     
  12. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #12
    it is definitely interesting to me. and it doesn't shatter my beliefs at all. i've always been a bit skeptical about taking all details as fact and don't find it too hard to believe that, given that this was all a grand plan of god's (jesus's death), then it wasn't really judas being evil that caused him to turn jesus over, but rather that he was playing his role in the entire plan...

    but anyhoo
     
  13. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #13
    Not to mention lethal injection not being nearly as bloody or lengthy as crucifixion.

    "And Jesus just went to sleep, sweety. Tomorrow I'll read about how God gently smote the Philistines."
     
  14. stoid macrumors 601

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    #14
    None of the gospels were written be the 12 apostles that are spoken of in the books. Think about it for a second. Most of them were uneducated fishermen, hardly the people that would have an eloquent command of the language needed to write one of the gospels.

    The books included in the Bible were done so based primarily on one criteria, that they point to Jesus as the one and only savior from sin through His death and resurrection. The book of Judas is a gnostic book, it points to salvation through knowledge and not be Jesus death and resurrection. If you believe in salvation by some 'secret' knowledge, then the Gospel of Judas is for you. You should also read the gospels of Mary of Magdala, Thomas, the Book of Thomas, and the Secret Book of John as well as many other gnostic books.

    The Bible doesn't tell me what to believe, but it does a good job (in most cases, I'm sick of the one liner Bible passages that people post as though one line out of several million summarizes a book!) of telling the story of what I believe.
     
  15. Airforce macrumors 6502a

    Airforce

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    #15
    I'm downloading this program now off a torrent. It's interesting to me because of one thing and one thing only: A lot of the hate generated out there from Christians towards Jews is based on the fact that they think we killed Jesus by betraying him.

    edit: the National Geographic program
     
  16. nbs2 macrumors 68030

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    #16
    Looking for the religious to post? Here is my response to this. My faith can handle this based on the following thought - I believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly. Do I believe it to be the complete set of written instructions for mankind? No. That would, in essence, make God imperfect. If God was revealing things since the beginning of the world, as the Bible shows, why would he suddenly stop? I highly doubt that anybody (even the athiests among us) thinks that humanity has reached perfection and can manage itself just fine....

    Moreover, Chirst was alive for 33 years, and preached for 3. I can read the words of Christ in the Gospels in a few hours. And that includes some stories that are reported multiple times. There is more.

    About this particular Gospel of Judas? I don't have the knowledge to question authenticity - so I won't. As for the truth it contains? I would like to read it for myself. It sounds to me like the writings of a man trying to make peace with his actions. But, I could easily be wrong.

    My response, while not denouncing nor approving this manuscript, does serve one very strong purpose - it shows why some don't consider me to be a Christian, no matter how strong my faith in Christ.
     
  17. Queso macrumors G4

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    #17
    Yeah, I just love the overuse of Leviticus 18:22. Disregard everything else in Leviticus, but quote that one ad nauseum as you tuck into a bacon sandwich.

    BTW always remember that God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. All Steves were created by Satan, possibly after he'd escaped The Pit and popped over to God's for a coffee morning á la the Book of Job. And whilst we're at it, if the ENTIRE human race turned gay overnight, which IS possible and not just playground logic taken to the extreme, then we'd die out in a generation.

    (I'll stop now. I'm beginning to sound like Benedict XVI :p )
     
  18. Heb1228 macrumors 68020

    Heb1228

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    #18
    Anyone wanting to know what Conservative Biblical Scholarship says about this issue should read this article...

    "The Gospel of Judas" -- Still a Media Item
    http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=604

    Al Mohler was named by Time magazine as one of the top intellectuals among the evangelical movement. But thats just if you actually care about the original question. I know more of you just like to flame away when you don't really know anything about the real issues involved.
     
  19. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #19
    What are you saying. ;)

    B
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    What's with all the attacks heb?

    Personally, I could care less about what some ancient text says, what's most interesting to me is the decisions that have been made as to what should be included in the bible and what was left out. How can anyone take such a text seriously when it was so heavily edited by common men?
     
  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    Not much competition there.
     
  22. IJ Reilly thread starter macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #22
    Some of us need to have God's love pounded into us.
     
  23. Airforce macrumors 6502a

    Airforce

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  24. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #24
    LOL, I agree very interesting insight. What a lot of Americans seem to forget is that the Bible is simply a collection of books and man decided on what books would make the Bible and which wouldnt.. My Mom seems to think God gave us the Bible but it was man who put the thing together. The book of Enoch is very interesting but it didnt make the cut as many others also didnt make the cut. Ugg is right on his point but i must admit the historical value of these books are immense.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    Au contraire, they are of doubtful historicity (certainly the OT).
     

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