Aborted Fetus Disposal

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by nbs2, Oct 24, 2006.

  1. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #1
    Something that I'm not sure how I feel about. On one hand, it is tragic that that the remains of children are being disposed of this way. On another, it is fitting that if society wished to view them as not people, but excised tissue (no different than a cancer or tonsils), that they should be disposed of this way.

    But, I suppose (maybe I'm just hoping for too much) that even the most fanatical pro-lifer (no abortions for any reason) would view stem cell research as a preferable alternative and the most fanatical pro-choicer (abortions for any reason, anytime before birth) would acknowledge that there is no ownership right to the excised fetus - no reason for the unwanted pregnancy women to demand control over disposal.
     
  2. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #2
    I thought John Kerry and Ted Kennedy had fetus margaritas on Wednesday happy hours.
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    :D
     
  4. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #4
    Meh, it's incinerated at the crematorium or it's incinerated at the hospital. If the women having the abortions are so distraught about the fate of the fetus they voluntary terminated maybe they should've ponied up the cash for the funeral/burial/cremation themselves?


    Lethal
     
  5. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #5
    Once again, all a human body, or a fetus for that matter, is a ball of flesh. What the hell does it matter how it gets disposed?

    I don't have any problem with it, nor do i care how i get disposed of after I expire
     
  6. nitynate macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    I know you think it is no big deal to abort, or just you will disagree with me, but anyway, abortion is murder.


    My sister had a baby last week.
    And the miracle of life is amazing.
    Adoption is the best policy.
    I know there are crowded orphanages and those kids live crappy lives, but i am not even kidding, that baby's first look at the world. That baby's first everything is just so heart touching.
    It is a person. A human. Not a "fetus"

    I know I may get flamed, but after seeing that angel be born, it was so amazing and my views have changed 100%
     
  7. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #7
    in your own opinion it is murder.

    Human beings are just balls of flesh, nothing really separates them from other "inferior" creatures than our minds. Abortion is nothing more than getting rid of the ball of flesh that you don't want.

    Would you rather grow up in a family that never wanted you? Where you are labelled as their worst mistake, or grow up in a crack house and be a crack baby where your quality of life is zero.

    What is better, to live an absolutely pitiful life that you absolutely hate, or to not live at all.

    I choose the latter, because it is not about living it is about how you live and what your quality of life is going to be.

    Turner Syndrome and Edwards Syndrome come to mind.

    Also ashkenazi disease and CF come to mind as well. (not sure if i spelt ashkenazi right or not)
     
  8. yojitani macrumors 68000

    yojitani

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    #8
    nitynate -

    I think I understand how you are feeling. Seeing both my kid's births certainly changed the way I valued life/living things. However, I still strongly support the pro-choice sentiment because I also acknowledge that the decision to abort can't be reduced to murder/not murder. If things were so black and white, there would be no grey areas, no mitigating circumstances, in 'ordinary' murder cases. There are stories that lead up to such horrible events that we as rational beings try to take into consideration.

    I think that this is another terrible example of the problems of privatization of the NHS (not to mention the stupid 'management companies' like crapita that get sent in). I am by all means a materialist, but indifference to death, ala eva, and the human body is frightening. It is a symptom of the capitalistic system in which life is a matter of checks and balances...etc.
     
  9. benthewraith macrumors 68040

    benthewraith

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    #9
    Turner Syndrome is NOT a reason to abort an unborn.
     
  10. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #10
    What were your views before?
     
  11. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #11
    it may be a reason to some and not to others.

    It all depends on what the parents would be able to take.
     
  12. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #12
    First of all, I am pro-choice, but this viewpoint is rather nihilistic. Abortion is a serious decision, not to be taken lightly. The "balls of flesh" carry emotional significance.
    There is adoption. Surprisingly enough, most adopted children do not end up in "a family that never wanted you", or a "crack house".
    I'm trying to see your side of the argument and I suppose I can understand where you're coming from. However, aborting late in the pregnancy because the child is likely to have a mental disorder is horrible.
     
  13. Jschultz macrumors 6502a

    Jschultz

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    #13
    No joke, there's a waiting list for healthy newborn white babies.

    My girlfriend, and my mom were adopted. Both have meaningful, awesome lives.

    But that's not what this thread is about, now is it?
     
  14. OnceUGoMac macrumors 6502a

    OnceUGoMac

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    #14
    That's a pretty revolting and fascist attitude to take towards people. Should we go ahead and cull all handicapped and mentally retarded people while we're at it? Why not just abort all babies whose families are poor? After all, their "quality of life" wouldn't be up to par where us rich, white folks feel comfortable.
     
  15. Queso macrumors G4

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    #15
    I'm personally anti-abortion, but not possessing a womb myself I feel under-equipped to force my opinions on the matter onto others. I'm sure it isn't an easy decision for a woman to make.

    I also sort of agree with eva01's point in that we are just biological entities and need to recognise the fact.
     
  16. eva01 macrumors 601

    eva01

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    #16
    It is all up to the parents if they want to abort it or not. Sure some parents may be thrilled to have a child at all. However some may be depressed to have a mentally disabled child. So if the parents want to abort it I have no problem with it. If they want to keep it then so be it. It is all up to the parents I am not saying that all of them should be aborted but only those that will have bad lives due to a family that didn't really want them.

    And for the record I have a disability and have a pretty good quality of life. But if my mother had known I was going to have a disability and aborted me, i wouldn't have known anyways.
     
  17. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #17
    Lets cut to the chase, a glob of cells is a glob of cells, The problem is where do you put the line? I like the under 2 months rule. Anything older should be carried to birth and if a Mother doesnt want it put it up for adoption. Sounds simple unless your a extremist.
     
  18. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #18
    but what made you choose 2 months? why not 10 weeks? or 3 months? or to the other side, 6 weeks, or 4? it's just arbirtrary. however, i agree that late late term abortions are less humane than i can really agree with... problem is, where do we draw the line and how do we reach that determination?
     
  19. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #19
    What is it that makes late-term abortions less humane?
     
  20. Queso macrumors G4

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    #20
    I suppose it's to do with the question "At what point does the foetus become aware?". At some point the collection of cells in the semi-developed head starts working as a proto-brain and processing signals from what is going to become the nervous system. Some point after that, the foetus becomes aware. The more advanced the pregnancy, the greater the chance that the foetus feels pain during the abortion itself. The thought of a foetus dying in pain is quite uncomfortable even for the most ardent pro-choice advocates.
     
  21. jelloshotsrule macrumors G3

    jelloshotsrule

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    #21
    well said.

    i really don't know much about the science of partial birth abortions, but they would fall under the same realm only even further along. the problem is, at some point the clump of cells goes from being a fetus dependent on the mother, to being an infant.. i don't think it's as simple as when they're inside they feel no pain, have no awareness, and then once that cord is cut they are full beings.

    overall, my point is that it's a grey area if you try to define when it's ok, and when it's not, and ultimately i will fall on the side of allowing it, i just don't feel it's a simple choice.
     
  22. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #22
    Agreed... along with the point at which the foetus becomes viable outside the womb.

    I'm pro-choice and I've never been in the position where I'd have to make that choice since I've always been slightly paranoid over safe sex.:eek:

    A lot would depend on my life and the quality of life that I believe the child would have; a disability would make me question the quality of life angle. I don't believe in bringing a child into the world who would suffer pain throughout a short life or would be entirely dependent on others with the likelihood after my death that they'd be stuck in an institution or dependent on care in the community. But it would depend on personal circumstances at the time and the seriousness of the disability (blindness, deafness, limb defects requiring a wheelchair wouldn't be an issue for example but if the child was going to be hooked up to a machine 24 hours a day with a life expectancy in months, then I'm not sure I'd class that as a life worth living)

    Adoption is one answer but pregnancy can have a major impact on a woman's body - and I'm not just talking cosmetically - so 'forcing' someone through it just so someone can adopt isn't a step to take lightly. I've known two women who I know have had abortions; neither one took it lightly and each still gets a little quiet around the 'anniversary' but both say it was the right decision at the time. It's rarely a casual decision.
     
  23. ChrisWB macrumors 6502

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    #23
    My extended family has a long history of adopting. All of us have great lives.
    Well said.

    Edit:
    Also well said.
     
  24. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #24
    Well I thought this would have been obvious. The real point I was alluding to is that the term humane is all too often invoked in the context of abortion. Outside of the most extenuating circumstances, the two terms don't belong in the same sentence. By reducing a human, albeit far from fully developed, to "a ball of cells", we can then rationalize the humane factor, which is reprehensible IMO.
     
  25. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #25
    I've never really understood why many "pro-life" (aka "anti-choice") people assume that "pro-choice" means "pro-abortion." I don't think the pro-choice stance is "Hey, everyone should get an abortion. They're fun!" The pro-choice position is about limiting the role of government in our personal lives and giving people the freedom to make a choice. It's also about providing a safe and informative environment for women who are contemplating having an abortion. Making abortion illegal will not prevent women from having abortions, but it will prevent women from seeking the medical attention they need (both mental and physical) and force them into unsafe "back room" abortions that can cause permanent reproductive damage if not death to the mother.

    And since we are qualifying our stances I have 2 nieces and 2 nephews (should have 4 nephews but 2 died shortly after being born), and due to circumstances surrounding my conception my mother was told to consider aborting me.


    Lethal
     

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