Am I the only one sick of "family values"?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Apr 16, 2006.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    These people claim to be Christians. I think they're just busybodies who need to mind their own damn business. In other words, these people want to outlaw people who don't think like they do. You Christians who call yourselves moderate really need to stand up, and soon. These people are truly obsessed with other people's private lives and I would say truly sick. I especially love the part about "America's values" being under attack. They're under attack from you Mr. Frist! You wackos need to go! Right-wing nutcases aren't the only people with families.

    "If there was any doubt, conservatives issued a concise warning last month. Four groups representing evangelical Christians said an internal survey found that 63 percent of "values voters" - identified as evangelical Christians whose priorities include outlawing abortion and banning same-sex marriage - "feel Congress has not kept its promises to act on a pro-family agenda."

    The Family Research Council, which headlined the survey, also announced it would hold a "Values Voter Summit" in September to "raise the bar of achievement for this Congress." At the top of the agenda could be a call for new leadership in Congress if those in power have not acted on social conservatives' issues.

    Some leaders read the warning signs early.

    The House has approved an amendment to the Constitution to outlaw flag burning and passed a bill to crack down on the practice of minors' crossing state lines for abortions to evade legal limits in their own states

    Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., and a possible presidential candidate in 2008, announced early this year that the Senate would consider those and the anti-gay marriage amendment that has failed in both chambers despite Bush's endorsement.

    "When America's values are under attack, we need to act," Frist told the Conservative Political Action Conference in February.

    Those were sweet words to Bauer's ears.

    "The marriage amendment is in a class by itself because of what's at stake," Bauer said."

    http://my.earthlink.net/article/pol?guid=20060415/44406fc0_3421_1334520060415-1952697978
     
  2. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #2
    and all this time I thought it was us homos and women who were under attack... silly me.

    Seriously, it's gone too far. It went too far a long time ago. People in high places need to speak out against this ****.

    e
     
  3. toontra macrumors 6502

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    #3
    I've been thinking about this recently. Certain Christians in the US and UK are starting to p**s me off a lot - essentially the ones using their position of power (usually political) to force their beliefs on other people.

    Blair once famously sneered at the suggestion that he had prayed with GB during their meeting about the decision to go to war. It turns out that that is indeed exactly what likely happened. So we find ourselves involved in a holy war. If that's where prayer leads, leave me out.

    People confident in their beliefs don't generally feel the need to proselytize.
     
  4. scem0 macrumors 604

    scem0

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    #4
    I agree for the most part, although Christianity is a rather bad religion when it comes to proselytizing, as many Christians think it's their responsibility to 'spread God's word' even if they aren't hateful like the 'Christians' cited in the first post. And I think many of these hateful Christians which are trying to ban gay marriage and abortions are very secure in their beliefs (a bit too secure, if you ask me :rolleyes: ). The problem is that their beliefs are wrong, and will do nothing to help this country.

    e
     
  5. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #5
    We've talked about this before, but yes, mainstream churches need to speak out to counterbalance the far right "Christians".

    As far as "family values"...what a joke.

    Where Jesus preached forgiveness and understanding, these are the first people to condemn others.

    Where Jesus preached helping the Samaritan (people from other cultural groups), these people are afraid of Mexicans, homosexuals, and everybody else unlike themselves.

    Where Jesus taught each of us to be guided by the Holy Spirit, these people want our values to be guided by Washington.

    Where Jesus preached against religious hypocrisy, these people hide behind it and use it as their main tool.

    Where Jesus preached against the practices of the Pharisees, these people are the Pharisees.

    I am a lifelong Catholic and therefore a Christian, yet I am ashamed nowadays to be identified as such.

    Happy Easter. [​IMG]
     
  6. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #6
    It's effective because it's a plastic phrase. "Family values" means nothing in and of itself. It's nonspecific; your family values are different than mine, but they're always important to both of us.

    It's nearly the same as saying we need to fight for "religious values". Whose religion?
     
  7. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #7
    For starters, I don't believe in divorce.
     
  8. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    This is what it's all about, folks: saving their elephant asses by getting the "religious" right to the polls this fall. It may be the GOP's only way of holding onto the House and/or Senate.

    I whole-heartedly concur.

    Vote Democrat!
     
  9. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #9
    Exactly. Turnout during midterm elections is typically extremely low, driven only by the most dedicated of voters. Those are the voters the GOP is trying to get to the polls. However, if you read between the lines, you can tell the extreme right is upset that more of their agenda (and their lifestyle ;) ) hasn't been implemented by Congress. This creates a problem for them. Congress could indeed act on things like an anti-flag-burning amendment, a ban on gay marriage, and abortion limitations. That will indeed bring out some of the 'values voters', but unless the legislation is draconian in scope and means, it will not placate the extreme right (has anything so far?). If it satisfies them, it will likely turn off the moderate voters the GOP needs to take them from 35% to 50%+1. If it doesn't satisfy the extreme right, they may just stay home rather than voting.

    And the GOP is polling terribly with independent swing voters right now. It was OK to pander to the extreme right when the independents were on your side WRT security issues and trustworthiness. But that strategy is very risky when the independents are against you something like 2-1.
     
  10. njmac macrumors 68000

    njmac

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    #10
    Like John Kerry, I am a Catholic. I like what John Kerry said during one of the debates - it went something like "I don't, as a Catholic believe in abortion but I don't think it is the Presidents job to legislate his beliefs" (paraphrasing). He got my vote.

    Why in this country do we think that what we believe (even if we are lawmakers) is what every one should believe?

    BTW Lee, I do speak out - at the polls. I vote.

    I, no matter how hard I try, cannot fathom why anyone would be against same sex marriage. Who the f cares what your neighbor does?

    I'm also 99.99% sure that the priest that married my husband and I is gay.
    Not that it matters for him because Priests are celebate anyway.
     
  11. jefhatfield Retired

    jefhatfield

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    #11
    step by goosestep, some of these family values people are slowing turning themselves into nazis

    history shows us that an idea with a direction can be taken by others and made into something completely different...i don't think karl marx would have imagined the abomination of totalitarian communist china and the soviet union

    jesus christ does not know or recognize some people who call themselves christians today, especially here in the states...while there is a lot of good and a lot of bad with today's gop, i don't recall the bible verse that says or implies "gop=christ" ;)
     
  12. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #12
    There is way too much PC these days, and its long since gone beyond stupidity.

    Kids can't be controlled in schools because teachers are constrained, for example.

    Christians who preach "Family values" and the like are often very discriminating themselves, and truly believe they set moral standards.
     
  13. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #13
    You're wrong - it definitely exists.
     
  14. Stella macrumors 604

    Stella

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    #14
    lol.
     
  15. dornoforpyros macrumors 68040

    dornoforpyros

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    #15
    you know, I wouldn't have such a problem with churches speaking out against homosexuality & abortion (hey everyone's untitled to their opinions & beliefs), the biggest problem I have is they try to blanket their ignorance and hate under a statement of family & love.

    Look up Love on Dictionary.com:


    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything in there about judgment & hatred.

    So I wish they'd at least call a spade and spade and change their slogans to things like "Promoting the hatred of the Christ" or something like that.

    At least the meat heads who run "God Hates Fags" are clear about where they stand.
     
  16. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #16
    The thing the evangelical types don't realise is that people like them left England because they were being persecuted. It's apparent why they would be persecuted, because they were active in persecuting others.

    Family Values is a great slogan. It says nothing, so people can fill in the blanks and make it whatever they want it to mean.

    I'm sure everyone's family meddles a little--some more than others. These people go so far out of the way that it would be a good idea to deport them to Mexico and keep the illegal aliens.
     
  17. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #17
    Not according to Jesus. A divorce and subsequent remarriage is bigamy. The first marriage is an unbreakable bond.

    You don't get an oopsie-do-over on a lifetime covenant.
     
  18. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #18
    Under no circumstances?
     
  19. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #19
    Your only option is to kill your spouse. Nice.
     
  20. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #20

    I think he was joking, saying it happens, hinting that your post said it does not exist.

    What is someone cheats on a partner? or beats them? Divorce is an important right to have. If you don't like it let other people do it.
     
  21. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #21
    Bingo.

    My values are for me.
     
  22. calculus Guest

    calculus

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    #22
    Yes I was. Also, I am pretty sure I am divorced and remarried. I don't care what Jesus is supposed to have said - can I have the evidence please?
     
  23. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #23
    Mark 10:2-12

    Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?"
    "What did Moses command you?" he replied.
    They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away."
    "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied.
    "But at the beginning of creation God `made them male and female.'
    `For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
    When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this.
    He answered, "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery
    --

    zap2 was the only one so far who has touched on what I'm getting at here.
     
  24. calculus Guest

    calculus

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  25. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #25

    um no but we are talking about his teaching and beliefs, does it matter what language he spoke? Do you valve his ideas if he spoke english more?
     

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