Amazon and TiVo Partnership?

[bommai]

Yes, they would love to cannibalize their TV and Movie sales by letting people get the content for free.



And it was Iger who said it would have a hard drive....If it's not from SJ's mouth or on the Apple website, it isn't true....yet. My bet is that if it is in there, it's there for buffering purposes only.

But I would love to be wrong...

The iTV box is really small. So, even if it has a hard drive, it will be a tiny one like the Playstation 3 - 20 to 60GB. You can't really use a 20-60GB hard drive for doing DVR (especially HD). So, get over it. iTV will not record from a tuner. It will however use the HD effectively for buffering streams and giving the end user a smooth experience. For example, if the user wants to fast forward or rewind, you don't want the iTV box hiccup because it needs to stream more stuff do you!!

Flash is not effective for caching streams because it is going to be constantly used. The iPod uses RAM for caching and flash for storing the songs (Nano, shuffle).

 

[arn]

iTV should just be an interface, recording and everythinhg else should be done on your Mac.

now this is a good thought. You really just need a TV-in/DVR software for your Mac that integrates with iTunes.... and iTv will playback that.

You don't even need Apple to make this happen.

arn

 

[nagromme]

Yes, they would love to cannibalize their TV and Movie sales by letting people get the content for free.

Next thing you know, Apple will cannibalize music downloads by letting people import their CD collection

There are many factors involved in the equation: raw numbers of video downloads is but one. And even THAT could benefit by greater adoption of Apple products including iTV--and recording ability would help speed that adoption.

For instance, if iTunes did NOT allow CD importing, I believe Apple would have sold LESS music by download. Because CD importing is something people want, and the lack of it would have hampered the adoption of iTunes.

 

[bommai]

now this is a good thought. You really just need a TV-in/DVR software for your Mac that integrates with iTunes.... and iTv will playback that.

You don't even need Apple to make this happen.

arn

I am sure elgato will come up with that one as long as the video hardware in iTV can decode MPEG2 Transport Streams (for OTA HD). However, it is still not an elegant solution since you won't be able to pause live TV from your couch, unless iTV can send a message back to the Mac and to the Elgato software to pause. Also, this setup will still be for niche people since most of the US gets their broadcasts from Cable/satellite. OTA HD is great (I use that exclusively) but unfortunately, still niche. I think Apple should specialize in getting computer media (iLife including store bought content) to the living room.

 

[Kirkmedia]

20 to 60 gig?

The iTV box is really small. So, even if it has a hard drive, it will be a tiny one like the Playstation 3 - 20 to 60GB. You can't really use a 20-60GB hard drive for doing DVR (especially HD). So, get over it. iTV will not record from a tuner. It will however use the HD effectively for buffering streams and giving the end user a smooth experience. For example, if the user wants to fast forward or rewind, you don't want the iTV box hiccup because it needs to stream more stuff do you!!

Flash is not effective for caching streams because it is going to be constantly used. The iPod uses RAM for caching and flash for storing the songs (Nano, shuffle).

If you can get 80 gig in an ipod, you can get 250 gig in itv. Or you just add more drives to your Mac and record to the mac.

You will be recording with itv before you know it. Either to itv's own internal
drive, or your Mac's internal drive or a combination of both.

 

[Purpleshorts]

Yes, use the Mac as TIVO

I agree with Samauri. Use your powerful Mac to be your DVR. All it lacks is inputs.

The same trend is seen in my music studio - In ancient times (four years ago) each of the samplers, drums, and rackmount effects units each had its own processor. Over time, much of this hardware has been replaced by software, all run from a single music workstation computer.

It's easy to imagine an Apple TIVO being written in software, to be viewed through iTV. (or iTube, iFlicks, iCinema, iShow, airFlicks, airTube...)

Another welcome addition would be burning (legal or otherwise) of DVDs.

 

[Yvan256]

If you can get 80 gig in an ipod, you can get 250 gig in itv. Or you just add more drives to your Mac and record to the mac.

You will be recording with itv before you know it. Either to itv's own internal
drive, or your Mac's internal drive or a combination of both.

Given its size, if there's a hard drive in the "iTV" then it has to be a 2.5", which maxes out at around 100-120GB right now (AFAIK).

As for recording, the "iTV" and current Macs don't have any inputs for recording video. And would you go with the obsolete analog cable TV channels or the digital cable version? Isn't there a few different standards for that? Not to mention the differences between countries.

Apple are trying to skip all those problems and distribute the content themselves. If I want a TV show, I don't "program my unit to record it on a given date and time", I have the server send what I want directly to me. I hope the content networks see Apple as just another distribution channel instead of a new competitor.

 

[balamw]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....

I love my TiVos (I have three DirecTiVos and only two Macs) Now I won't know what to lust after, the iTV or the TiVo Series 3...

Anyhow, even though TiVo runs on Linux, they've aligned themselves with Windows Media, with their adoption of WMV DRM for TiVo to Go.

Given its size, if there's a hard drive in the "iTV" then it has to be a 2.5", which maxes out at around 100-120GB right now (AFAIK).

FWIW I think Apple has a good supplier of 1.8" drives too. Could be a 30 GB 1.8".

 

[Squonk]

Given its size, if there's a hard drive in the "iTV" then it has to be a 2.5", which maxes out at around 100-120GB right now (AFAIK).

160GB is the current max size for 2.5" drives. And I think that Toshiba has a 200GB in the works to come out this fall, if my memory is correct...

 

[Thanatoast]

Let Amazon have Tivo. I'd rather have the ability to buy and watch the media I want to watch rather than the ability to record two hundred channels worth of crap I have no interest in.

 

[Kirkmedia]

Unbox & Itunes Store support

Who's to say tivo won't support Unbox & Itunes Store?

 

[Yvan256]

FWIW I think Apple has a good supplier of 1.8" drives too. Could be a 30 GB 1.8".

I've read somewhere that 1.8" drives aren't designed to be used as "always-on" storage devices like regular computer hard drives. Also, 1.8" drives would cost even more per GB than 2.5" drives (which already cost a lot more than 3.5" drives per GB).

 

[dante@sisna.com]

Exactly

I always thought it was really dumb that I have this powerful Mac computer in my house and then I have a TiVO which is a full computer by itself complete with Linux, HD, networking, etc. Why can't I just have my Mac do all this for me ? I don't want another computer under my TV. I think iTV is exactly what we want. Leverage the computer you already have and just interface it to to your TV. I think Unibox and TiVo is the wrong way. I don't want to pay $799 for another computer to sit under my TV when I already have my Mac. We just need to add a USB tuner for Cable, OTA, or Sat connected to the Mac (not connected to iTV). iTV should just be an interface, recording and everythinhg else should be done on your Mac.

Yes exactly, I agree. Plus with iTV one can stream to multiple TV's. I don't think Tivo offers this.

 

[arn]

Yes exactly, I agree. Plus with iTV one can stream to multiple TV's. I don't think Tivo offers this.

I'm not sure what you mean. You can't easily watch your iTunes movies on more than one TV unless you have multiple iTVs.

arn

 

[SirOmega]

As someone who is both a TiVo and Apple fanboy, let me offer the following...

TiVo has been looking for a partner for the whole download and watch on your big screen. They tried netflix, but the studios put the kibosh on that. Sad really, it would have destroyed the competition (apple, amazon, etc) in the movie market, and probably hurt DVD sales significantly.

Amazon Unbox uses the WMV9 (VC-1) codec. This means the only TiVo that would be able to watch unbox videos is the new Series 3 Hi-Def TiVo which costs $800 currently (though the price is expected to decrease some in Q1 07). The S3 TiVo has a broadcom chip inside that will decode MPEG2, H.264 and WMV9/VC-1. It also has a 250GB HD, with the option of external eSATA storage (though that functionality isnt available yet), so space isnt an issue. The S3 TiVo will also eventually support multiroom viewing (obviously requiring a S3 TiVo at each HDTV).

What is an issue is the market these are aimed at. If I buy a S3 TiVo, I sure as hell am not going to be buying near DVD quality movies online, after I've put almost $6,000 into my home theater. I'm going to spend money on a HD-DVD player and buy HD movies from the store and make sure I get the best quality. Its the same reason I probably wouldnt buy a iTV unless there was compelling HD content to go with it. Amazon unbox and the iTunes store would need to sell me HD quality movies, and my 10Mb/s downstream pipe would suck it down in about 1/2 realtime (2 hour movie takes 4 hours to d/l). Then there is the issue of not being able to backup these movies - computers are still much more fragile (HD crash, etc) than my bookshelf with movies on it. Hard drives are getting cheaper, but do I really need to put together a 5TB RAID array to backup my movies to?

 

[Counterfit]

From the Unbox review:

My home DSL connection clocks in consistently at around 4.9 gigabits per second - fast by American residential standards - and it still took me five hours to download a movie from Unbox.

Riiight....

 

[bommai]

If you can get 80 gig in an ipod, you can get 250 gig in itv. Or you just add more drives to your Mac and record to the mac.

You will be recording with itv before you know it. Either to itv's own internal
drive, or your Mac's internal drive or a combination of both.

Pricing is key!! 80GB iPod = $349. iTV = $299. You decide. 1.8" HDs are pretty expensive. iTV has a lot of other expenses that are not in the iPod.

It has HDMI, optical audio, an OS to handle Front Row, etc, chipsets to handle H.264 in High Def, Wifi, ethernet, USB. For $299 and its size, it is a guarantee that the hard drive is not for DVR.

However, as Cringley said in his recent column, a novel use for the USB port would be an iSight camera. Use your iTV to do video chat without the need for a computer to be on. This way, if PC people buy iTV they can chat amongst other iTV users as well as Mac users. Increases use of iChat in the market place.

 

[FaasNat]

let's hope iTV + iTunes has the functionality to outperform the unbox + TiVo solution.

I'm not concerned at this point, I'm sure this is a "let's play catch-up" move whereas Apple has been designing and integrating their services behind the scenes for well over a year now.

Here's hoping iTV picks up live TV recording capabilites with a nice TV guide (like TiVo's).

this is supposed to read apple and TiVo partnership, not amazon and Tivo, dangit

Maybe Apple will just have to buyout TiVo. Hasn't that been a long standing rumor? Then after that, they can buy Amazon, eBay, and more!

 

[Yvan256]

However, as Cringley said in his recent column, a novel use for the USB port would be an iSight camera. Use your iTV to do video chat without the need for a computer to be on. This way, if PC people buy iTV they can chat amongst other iTV users as well as Mac users. Increases use of iChat in the market place.

Isn't the iSight a FireWire camera? I was thinking the USB port would be for external hard drives.

 

[balamw]

Isn't the iSight a FireWire camera? I was thinking the USB port would be for external hard drives.

The current built-in iSights use USB.

B

 

[IlluminatedSage]

hey apple ought to do some sort of deal with tivo for DVR functionality.

and for itunes integration.

well maybe even buy tivo. just a thought

 

[nagromme]

From the Unbox review:
Riiight....

He didn't say the Unbox problem was his bandwidth, he said it was NOT his bandwidth: some problem on Amazon's end, like server overload.

 

[ddrueckhammer]

I don't even think the 802.11g exists for Tivo.

One of the easiest ways to get 802.11g on a Tivo series 2 is to get a USB to Ethernet adaptor and hook it up to an Airport express. I have this setup since I already was using the Airport to stream music to my stereo and it works flawlessly. The USB might be the slowdown here though as I think it might be USB 1...

 

[ddrueckhammer]

He didn't say the Unbox problem was his bandwidth, he said it was NOT his bandwidth: some problem on Amazon's end, like server overload.

I'm not sure if Amazon's servers are overloaded or they just throttle their downloads but i didn't get any faster than 2.4Mbps on my 5.0Mbps connection. I would get the 15Mbps connection from Verizon Fios but I find that many sites limit download speeds to conserve bandwidth so what is the point? If Apple would offer a rental service, I would be all over it.

 

[DarkNexus]

Isn't Tivo USA-only?

Tivo can and does work fine in Canada