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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Jun 8, 2006.
we are so far behind in this it's a pathetic joke really.
Well, the way things are going we may have a second hand national health service you could have cheap. Get George's people to talk to Tony's people.
You'd think, but there are a number of people who would actually be surprised by this. Most of them wealthy Republican politicians. But some would rather vote to ban gay marriage and to make the rich richer under the guise of free enterprise than worry about the fact that if they or their children get sick, they can't pay for it. And can't declare bankruptcy. As they get poorer while people making 10x as much get unneeded tax refunds. Not to mention the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries getting rich off of our misery.
I remember that every time I write a check to pay off the huge hospital bill I got after 1 visit... and that was WITH insurance!
I think if the Govt can spend over 400 billion in Iraq we can do a universal healthcare system, or if we can piss away billions on a Space Shuttle that cant fly again we can do Healthcare, Or if we can spend billions in TV commercials pushing the latest politicians campaign again we can do Healthcare.
Problem is the universal healthcare system is nearly bankrupt in a lot of countries (Sweden, Norway, Great Britain, Canada...)
I'm all for it, but I want some assurance that it will fiscally work and stay solvent, unlike Social Security.
There is a HUGE need, but as iGary mentioned, cost and the ability to get govt spending under control and properly allocated is beyond difficult. govt waste
I have a cousin that has lived in Scottland for 30 years, her and her Scottish husband come here (US) on occassion to get medical care that can take 6 months to get in Edinburough.
While all systems have faults, ours MUST adapt and take on a better safety net. It may be a few small things, tort reform to name one. BTW the VA has been lauded for its turn around over the last few years. It has become a model of effeciency in some areas.VA turnaround
No easy answer here, and not one from me.
Add that to the $352 billion paid on the national debt and we're on the way to a very well funded program.
The "we can't raise taxes or we'll be voted out" mindset has got to be eliminated. We're at war, we're in debt, we need to make some sacrifices. If we didn't have the national debt (assuming a US population of 300 million) everyone could have an approximately $1000 annual tax break (more when you consider not everyone works and if we ever get out of Iraq there'd be even more $$).
The healthcare debate has been done to death here, but if we can afford Iraq and the National Debt we should be able to afford healthcare for our citizens.
hahahahahahahahahahah. that'll fix it.
why are we to expect that the gov't will waste our healthcare money any more than halliburton wastes money, or lockheed martin, or the current health care systems? do you really think they are so efficient?
Aren't we one of the few 1st world nations that do not have some sort of basic public health care for its citizens? I also think there are some backwoods hicks that are sitting back saying "we dont want no national id card" which im sure is something that would come out of this (suprise we have one already, its called a Social Security Card), along with some higher taxes, which i would be willing to pay for so long as they were used appropriately
yes, that is true. but remember to drink the kool-aid and repeat after me: "all universal health care systems in other countries are failing, out of money, and worse than ours"...
where "appropriately" equals "for the war on terror" i presume?
well at least MA has a somewhat step in the right direction with their attempt at universal health care
so maybe there is hope?
yeah, that is a great advancement, and with a republican governor. hopefully this will start to spread. after all, if the federal gov't won't help its citizens, the states should. right fellow republicans??? states' rights!!!!!
If the Soylent Green project works out, maybe that will pay for it.
The important point made in the article is that there's no free lunch -- we're already paying for healthcare for people who can't pay themselves, we're just doing it in the most godawful inefficient way possible.
Anyway, Washington being Washington, I suppose the obvious can't be belabored too much, and they need to send an independent panel on a road trip outside of the Beltway to discover that the health care system is broken. Wow, who knew? Anyone care to place any odds on this information being put to good use?
x:1 , where x equals whatever the current dollar amount spent on iraq is. (it will evolve as the amount spent grows)
well said ij
So very true, we really kind of allready have a universal care system. Just look at all the illegal mexicans who are using our hospitals and ERs, or medicaid for the poor? Like IJ says we are doing it now only its not very well ran plus we have Insurance companys making big dollars off of peoples medical needs. Cutting out that middle man would save billions. Its time for a national system of healthcare with several tiers or programs.
that would cover just two months of my premiums.
I've suggested this before, but I think a large chunk of the problem could be addressed relatively quickly by requiring anyone who isn't otherwise covered to enroll in Medicare, which if they were under the eligible age, could be funded with a payroll tax. This system is it exists now is already portable, and nobody can be denied access due to medical history or ability to pay an open-market premium. The Medicare system is hardly perfect, but it features a much lower overhead cost than private insurance, and it's a system that doctors and hospitals already understand.
Oh, the irony.
I was just talking about this with my (legally immigrated ) good Canadian friend the other day, and we both agreed that the real key to Universal Healthcare in this country is tort reform.
Doctors pay godawful amounts for malpractice - and thats if they never have an issue, let alone if they do. Thats why our premiums are so high, and needless to say, hospital bills as well.
Additionally, we discussed the freeloaders and abuse of the system that would inevitably occure on top of our current situation should we try. We'd likely see the expense of healthcare go up by an order of magnitude.
Simply put, IOHO until we remove all of this "leganancial cruft" from the system, we simply cannot afford Universal healthcare.
and it doesn't occur to you that maybe the insurance companies are screwing over the doctors?
did you know that the amount of money doled out in lawsuits has not actually increased at all in proportion to the increase in insurance costs?
what do the insurance companies do? they take the money from doctors, and invest it, right? how has the stock market done recently, as compared to let's say the mid-late 90s? see where i'm going with this?
Well sure it did, but that really didn't take a central part of the conversation - it's an indirect, and simpler, problem to solve legally.
ok. so how are you going to solve it?
and how about the rest of my points? those didn't come up i take it?
Tort reform meaning what? Broad 'no suing corporations' rules, or something else? 'Cause all I've ever heard actually proposed by people pushing for tort reform is 'no frivolous lawsuits' and no mechanism for determining what a frivolous lawsuit is. Which is, in essence, a 'no lawsuits against monied interests' rule.
You forgot the waste and fraud in Welfare, Medicaid and medicare. Hummm
now as I linked to a citizen waste watchdog group, and have the link in my signature, I DON'T THINK THEY ARE EFFICIENT. Gov't sux at nearly everything, from education, welfare, military, and lots more. Where do you infer that I would even think that???????
Tort reform is small fry but a % none the less, it is just a single example and most likely not the most effective by any stretch, but needed none the less. Ethics reform amongst Dr and Lawyers would be more effective.