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dusk007

macrumors 68040
Dec 5, 2009
3,411
104
I am also wondering if anything they are too blue. Probably intentionally to counter the blue aging.

Still the current AMOLEDs aren't as power efficient as white led LCDs. They may win on mixed and black content against RGB Led screens. Contrast is perfect. Glare is no more a problem even much less than with LCD imo.
It won't show before retina displays. I think the last I heard they expect to reach price parity around 2017. 55" TVs are allowed to be really expensive the Plasma ones usually have been too, but it is not there yet for notebooks.
 

lamboman

macrumors 6502
Aug 13, 2011
394
2
I take it you haven't seen the OLED TVs at this year's CES? OLED is worse? Over-saturated? Struggles with colour reproduction? Seriously?

OLEDs, as your quotes stated, have increased efficiency over their LCD counterparts. Fact. "Fidelity improvements" for the current (not necessarily the forthcoming) models are better black levels and whiter whites. That's it. They are oversaturated. Do you see any professional level OLED displays? No. The colour reproduction isn't there yet. That isn't to say that they won't in the coming years, but right now, performance isn't on the OLED side.
 

stupidcupid

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2013
1
0
I feel very funny after reading this thread thoroughly.
One thing someone should explain to me: Is there any color over-saturated by-nature? What kind of color is over-saturated one? Infra-red or Ultra-violet? :D
 

newdeal

macrumors 68030
Oct 21, 2009
2,510
1,769
the worst part about amoled is that it generall uses more power than a IPS LCD does unless the vast majority of the screen is black. LCD uses the same power no matter what, AMOLED uses much less power on blacks and much much more power on whites and colours so it really makes no sense to use it on anything unless you are OK with black (with accents of red green or blue to turn on fewer subpixels) which is why android has gone mostly black in its UI
 

mobi

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2004
407
15
Penn's Woods
Since this thread has been waken from the dead....any more pros / cons for AMOLED in laptop application? AMOLED vs RETINA.

The rise of "Display Tech" is more important than ever.
 

Darkangels6sic6

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2013
4
0
If you know anything about displays, you'd know that AMOLED is an oversaturated, degradable screen that is near-impossible to calibrate and, without a matte display, creates massive amounts of glare. Expect any monitor made with current AMOLED technologies to cause extreme eye strain and last only ~2 years.

The AMOLED hype in the mobile industry never made sense to me...

(as you can tell I hate AMOLED screens)
near impossible to calibrate?

What an utter load of crap!!!!!!!! You are such a fanboy it's sickening.
First off near impossible to calibrate???? The latest Amoled is the most realistic screen ever when in movie mode. True to life blacks and high contrasts. It has 100% green accuracy and approximately 97% color accuracy on other colors. While also having a very good white balance. In RGB mode it has close to same accuracy, but not as perfect while having better white balance than IPS. Or you can leave it alone and have it saturated they way the most people "save for online jealous haters" actually prefer. It can do saturated and overall realistic both better.

Amoled as a tech is also less reflective. It takes IPS displays that are 100-200 nits brighter to get the same or minutely better sun reflective scores.

Degradable? Yes, but not even close to this two year marrk. Most Omnia HD Amoled screens are fine let alone Galaxy S1 screens. And they are only getting brighter and lasting longer.

Your blindness is horrifying. It's people like you that help create and spread hate and misconceptions.


......Not to mention the simple fact this thread makes no sense. We are comparing a PPI to a display type. Retina is not a display type it's a pixel density. Amoled has had retina screens on phones. Sony had Retina first and just about any phone is Retina now a days.

----------

OLEDs, as your quotes stated, have increased efficiency over their LCD counterparts. Fact. "Fidelity improvements" for the current (not necessarily the forthcoming) models are better black levels and whiter whites. That's it. They are over saturated. Do you see any professional level OLED displays? No. The color reproduction isn't there yet. That isn't to say that they won't in the coming years, but right now, performance isn't on the OLED side.

Lacking blacks and contrasts makes LCD false and inaccurate. The difference Amoled can be tuned for both. The Galaxy S4 shows this with a more realistic screen then any other.

----------

Hmm, I caught that ninja edit.
First, the horrible viewing angles are due to display makers reserving IPS to high-end devices only. Blame them, not the technology.
Second, 1080p at HDTV sizes is so low density that it's actually easier to make than high-density 4" screens. As a consequence HDTVs are more power efficient than LCDs at that scale, but not at a 15" form factor.
Third, OLED TVs fade just like plasma TVs. Again, expect blue subpixels to fail in a couple years.

You see OLED phone screens, TVs and even tablets but you never see an OLED monitor. Why? It's impractical.

HDTV is more power efficient than High density 4-5inch screen!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Who deals you your drugs?

----------

Sorry, you are the only fanboy here. Don't delude yourself.

The extreme differences in contrast created by OLED causes EYE STRAIN.

OLEDs fade away after less tha 5 years of usage. My old LCD monitor from 2001 has not experienced a decrease in brightness.

OLEDs are super saturated on phones because they are naturally super saturated. It's not to appeal to customers (it shies away many, actually), but rather because OLEDs have a high threshold electricity to create light. It's almost like the OLED is either on or off; there's not really an in-between state. When it's off, it's pitch black, and when it's on, it's really bright, but when you try to control it, it's very difficult.

Retina displays on laptops is sacrificing precious gamut for resolution. It's just as impractical as OLEDs.

The conventional LCD panels are mere to stay for at least 5 more years, Mr. Fanboy.


Sorry to say, but they are right and just calling you out. So you make up a bunch of fanboy crap, lie, troll, and even get rude...Then you are called out for it and your response is to scapegoat your actions onto them for doing so...Quit being so butthurt and get over yourself
 

Darkangels6sic6

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2013
4
0
So putting the trolls, lies, and fact that Retina is not a display technology aside...

Amoled is the screen of the future. It has a couple issues" which are excessively over exaggerated and hyped due to jealousy and hate", but so does everything. It's considered unnatural by being saturated. Save for online jealous haters most people like that. LCD is also unnatural in the same aspect by lacking blacks and having poor contrasts. The difference Amoled can be tuned to have natural and realist colors. While doing so it retains true blacks and massive contrasts. Especially with the tuning available now Amoled can do realistic and saturated both better. Even IPS on most screens has only recently hit some of it's own accurate and bright levels. Amoled is much newer, but rapidly over growing and over taking.

It has higher contrasts, more color options, true blacks, overall less power consuming, can achieve more proper white balance than IPS"at least by settings", vastly superior response times"greater than LCD may ever achieve same as contrast levels", better viewing angles, less reflective, flexible, more even lighting, thinner, no back light, and only getting better as we speak.
Burn in has happened, but in very small scales and is no where even close to the fraction of the panic it was hyped to be. It is also more to do with early generations. As stated. It's only getting way better.

LCD can easily be a little brighter"though the colors and contrast plus less reflectivity of amoled actually mostly negate the difference", slightly better whites"in some cases", less power consumed on white, they need a backlight and are thicker, not flexible, no blacks, lacking contrast, not bendable, cannot be as saturated or overall realistic, Don't look as amazing, last a little longer, generally are not fully and evenly lit, ok viewing angles, so on.

This is only to talk about 4-7inch displays and such. Now when we talk about now from when this page started onward to next year and the following Amoled is even more advanced and will only be much further improved. Wait until you see the color/contrast/black/reflective and angle difference in large scales such as 20-60inch displays. Especially the ghosting effect on Laptops and even good HDTV's. The difference will be stunning. AMoled will especially make laptops amazing. Especially if they make a white pixel. Power consumption and viewing will be magnificently improved.
 

Vanilla35

macrumors 68040
Apr 11, 2013
3,344
1,453
Washington D.C.
near impossible to calibrate?

What an utter load of crap!!!!!!!! You are such a fanboy it's sickening.
First off near impossible to calibrate???? The latest Amoled is the most realistic screen ever when in movie mode. True to life blacks and high contrasts. It has 100% green accuracy and approximately 97% color accuracy on other colors. While also having a very good white balance. In RGB mode it has close to same accuracy, but not as perfect while having better white balance than IPS. Or you can leave it alone and have it saturated they way the most people "save for online jealous haters" actually prefer. It can do saturated and overall realistic both better.

Amoled as a tech is also less reflective. It takes IPS displays that are 100-200 nits brighter to get the same or minutely better sun reflective scores.

Degradable? Yes, but not even close to this two year marrk. Most Omnia HD Amoled screens are fine let alone Galaxy S1 screens. And they are only getting brighter and lasting longer.

Your blindness is horrifying. It's people like you that help create and spread hate and misconceptions.


......Not to mention the simple fact this thread makes no sense. We are comparing a PPI to a display type. Retina is not a display type it's a pixel density. Amoled has had retina screens on phones. Sony had Retina first and just about any phone is Retina now a days.

----------



Lacking blacks and contrasts makes LCD false and inaccurate. The difference Amoled can be tuned for both. The Galaxy S4 shows this with a more realistic screen then any other.

----------



HDTV is more power efficient than High density 4-5inch screen!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Who deals you your drugs?

----------




Sorry to say, but they are right and just calling you out. So you make up a bunch of fanboy crap, lie, troll, and even get rude...Then you are called out for it and your response is to scapegoat your actions onto them for doing so...Quit being so butthurt and get over yourself

Best post I've read in a while. Everything I was thinking, and delivered in a more elegant manner ;)
 

Prodo123

macrumors 68020
Nov 18, 2010
2,326
10
near impossible to calibrate?

What an utter load of crap!!!!!!!! You are such a fanboy it's sickening.
First off near impossible to calibrate???? The latest Amoled is the most realistic screen ever when in movie mode. True to life blacks and high contrasts. It has 100% green accuracy and approximately 97% color accuracy on other colors. While also having a very good white balance. In RGB mode it has close to same accuracy, but not as perfect while having better white balance than IPS. Or you can leave it alone and have it saturated they way the most people "save for online jealous haters" actually prefer. It can do saturated and overall realistic both better.

Amoled as a tech is also less reflective. It takes IPS displays that are 100-200 nits brighter to get the same or minutely better sun reflective scores.

Degradable? Yes, but not even close to this two year marrk. Most Omnia HD Amoled screens are fine let alone Galaxy S1 screens. And they are only getting brighter and lasting longer.

Your blindness is horrifying. It's people like you that help create and spread hate and misconceptions.


......Not to mention the simple fact this thread makes no sense. We are comparing a PPI to a display type. Retina is not a display type it's a pixel density. Amoled has had retina screens on phones. Sony had Retina first and just about any phone is Retina now a days.

----------



Lacking blacks and contrasts makes LCD false and inaccurate. The difference Amoled can be tuned for both. The Galaxy S4 shows this with a more realistic screen then any other.

----------



HDTV is more power efficient than High density 4-5inch screen!!!!!!!????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Who deals you your drugs?

----------




Sorry to say, but they are right and just calling you out. So you make up a bunch of fanboy crap, lie, troll, and even get rude...Then you are called out for it and your response is to scapegoat your actions onto them for doing so...Quit being so butthurt and get over yourself

Well, here it goes.
I'm almost never butthurt. Especially not over a thread that's over a year old. And I don't think I was ever butthurt back then, either.

AMOLEDs are near impossible to calibrate, not because they oversaturate everything (that itself being a sign of miscalibration) but because of its gamma curve. The difference in brightness between the lowest setting and when the screen is off is ridiculously high. One can visualize this with a logarithmic curve of brightness. The contrast ratio may be high, but this uneven increase in brightness causes the screen to fluctuate in gamut throughout the dynamic range. One would need a specialized gamma curve just to fit each model of AMOLED displays, not to mention the fluctuation in this curve over time with use.

On the other hand, LCD screens have a constant backlight and there is a floor to how dim it can get. This does result in lower contrast ratios, but it has its upsides. The gamma is constant and tends to vary less between displays, resulting in much more uniform displays with consistent performance and experience with ease of calibration.

We are also talking about laptop displays, not cell phone displays. Reflectance is not a very big issue. You can even ask anyone using rMBPs if glare bothers them much.

One also expects a laptop to last at least 4 years, if not longer. A desktop monitor, 7+ years for me at least. If I buy any AMOLED display on the market right now it will not last that long and still give the performance it did when I first bought it. LCDs will. It may not matter as much on a phone, but it sure as hell matters on a computer being used for color critical work.

The eye strain issue is also very real. Going from one extreme to the other is very bad for your eyes, just like how using a super bright display in a super dark room will make your eyes hurt.

HDTV is more power efficient than High density 4-5inch screen!!!!!!!??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Who deals you your drugs?

Probably mistyped back then. I meant "more efficient to make" not "power efficient."

So putting the trolls, lies, and fact that Retina is not a display technology aside...

Amoled is the screen of the future. It has a couple issues" which are excessively over exaggerated and hyped due to jealousy and hate", but so does everything. It's considered unnatural by being saturated. Save for online jealous haters most people like that. LCD is also unnatural in the same aspect by lacking blacks and having poor contrasts. The difference Amoled can be tuned to have natural and realist colors. While doing so it retains true blacks and massive contrasts. Especially with the tuning available now Amoled can do realistic and saturated both better. Even IPS on most screens has only recently hit some of it's own accurate and bright levels. Amoled is much newer, but rapidly over growing and over taking.

It has higher contrasts, more color options, true blacks, overall less power consuming, can achieve more proper white balance than IPS"at least by settings", vastly superior response times"greater than LCD may ever achieve same as contrast levels", better viewing angles, less reflective, flexible, more even lighting, thinner, no back light, and only getting better as we speak.
Burn in has happened, but in very small scales and is no where even close to the fraction of the panic it was hyped to be. It is also more to do with early generations. As stated. It's only getting way better.

LCD can easily be a little brighter"though the colors and contrast plus less reflectivity of amoled actually mostly negate the difference", slightly better whites"in some cases", less power consumed on white, they need a backlight and are thicker, not flexible, no blacks, lacking contrast, not bendable, cannot be as saturated or overall realistic, Don't look as amazing, last a little longer, generally are not fully and evenly lit, ok viewing angles, so on.

This is only to talk about 4-7inch displays and such. Now when we talk about now from when this page started onward to next year and the following Amoled is even more advanced and will only be much further improved. Wait until you see the color/contrast/black/reflective and angle difference in large scales such as 20-60inch displays. Especially the ghosting effect on Laptops and even good HDTV's. The difference will be stunning. AMoled will especially make laptops amazing. Especially if they make a white pixel. Power consumption and viewing will be magnificently improved.

Man, you're going on and on about this, huh...

The numbers clearly show how accurate AMOLEDs are compared to LCDs. Delta E of the most accurate AMOLED display, or so you say, that of the Galaxy S4, come at a ridiculously high 7.4+ according to AnandTech. You need a dE of 2.0 or lower to not notice a deviation from the control. Most modern LCD monitors come within 1.0, and the iPhone 5 achieves a very close 3.4.

You're also ignoring the rate of development of the LCD display. As AMOLEDs struggle to catch up to what LCDs achieved 10-15 years ago, LCD displays are achieving greater gamut, greater contrast, greater viewing angles and general usability. Resolution and refresh rates are also rising, with 4K displays and 120Hz monitors around nowadays.

You can also see the direction of development AMOLEDs are taking to not care much about colors. It's much more geared toward flexible displays and 3D panels. They're working on size, though, if that makes you happy.

If you want to go into the very specifics of why color improvement on AMOLEDs is so hard, it's because energy is quantized. Chemicals can only emit certain frequencies of light specific to them, and this creates a spectrum of colors. Dyes must filter this spectrum so a certain wavelength passes though (for example, green) while rest is absorbed by the dye. And you know what happens when dye absorbs radiation: it degrades little by little until it is no more.

LCDs function similarly, but the original light source (CFL, RGB LED, white LED) contains a much more balanced spectrum. CFLs too are limited by the chemistry of phosphors, but this technology has had decades of research into it and we are now able to recreate almost any spectrum of light using different phosphor compounds. Another advantage is that LCDs do not use dyes, but rather synthetic liquid crystals as this "dye" material. They do not degrade, and as such, provide much more consistent performance over time.

One year passed, the gamma and gamut control problems have clearly not been solved. Like I said before, it'll be years until this issue is fixed and AMOLEDs find a foothold in computer displays. Like you said, AMOLEDs are the displays of the future. It'll take many, many years to get to that future. Until then, LCDs are more than enough.
 

Darkangels6sic6

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2013
4
0
Well, here it goes.
I'm almost never butthurt. Especially not over a thread that's over a year old. And I don't think I was ever butthurt back then, either.

AMOLEDs are near impossible to calibrate, not because they oversaturate everything (that itself being a sign of miscalibration) but because of its gamma curve. The difference in brightness between the lowest setting and when the screen is off is ridiculously high. One can visualize this with a logarithmic curve of brightness. The contrast ratio may be high, but this uneven increase in brightness causes the screen to fluctuate in gamut throughout the dynamic range. One would need a specialized gamma curve just to fit each model of AMOLED displays, not to mention the fluctuation in this curve over time with use.

On the other hand, LCD screens have a constant backlight and there is a floor to how dim it can get. This does result in lower contrast ratios, but it has its upsides. The gamma is constant and tends to vary less between displays, resulting in much more uniform displays with consistent performance and experience with ease of calibration.

We are also talking about laptop displays, not cell phone displays. Reflectance is not a very big issue. You can even ask anyone using rMBPs if glare bothers them much.

One also expects a laptop to last at least 4 years, if not longer. A desktop monitor, 7+ years for me at least. If I buy any AMOLED display on the market right now it will not last that long and still give the performance it did when I first bought it. LCDs will. It may not matter as much on a phone, but it sure as hell matters on a computer being used for color critical work.

The eye strain issue is also very real. Going from one extreme to the other is very bad for your eyes, just like how using a super bright display in a super dark room will make your eyes hurt.



Probably mistyped back then. I meant "more efficient to make" not "power efficient."



Man, you're going on and on about this, huh...

The numbers clearly show how accurate AMOLEDs are compared to LCDs. Delta E of the most accurate AMOLED display, or so you say, that of the Galaxy S4, come at a ridiculously high 7.4+ according to AnandTech. You need a dE of 2.0 or lower to not notice a deviation from the control. Most modern LCD monitors come within 1.0, and the iPhone 5 achieves a very close 3.4.

You're also ignoring the rate of development of the LCD display. As AMOLEDs struggle to catch up to what LCDs achieved 10-15 years ago, LCD displays are achieving greater gamut, greater contrast, greater viewing angles and general usability. Resolution and refresh rates are also rising, with 4K displays and 120Hz monitors around nowadays.

You can also see the direction of development AMOLEDs are taking to not care much about colors. It's much more geared toward flexible displays and 3D panels. They're working on size, though, if that makes you happy.

If you want to go into the very specifics of why color improvement on AMOLEDs is so hard, it's because energy is quantized. Chemicals can only emit certain frequencies of light specific to them, and this creates a spectrum of colors. Dyes must filter this spectrum so a certain wavelength passes though (for example, green) while rest is absorbed by the dye. And you know what happens when dye absorbs radiation: it degrades little by little until it is no more.

LCDs function similarly, but the original light source (CFL, RGB LED, white LED) contains a much more balanced spectrum. CFLs too are limited by the chemistry of phosphors, but this technology has had decades of research into it and we are now able to recreate almost any spectrum of light using different phosphor compounds. Another advantage is that LCDs do not use dyes, but rather synthetic liquid crystals as this "dye" material. They do not degrade, and as such, provide much more consistent performance over time.

One year passed, the gamma and gamut control problems have clearly not been solved. Like I said before, it'll be years until this issue is fixed and AMOLEDs find a foothold in computer displays. Like you said, AMOLEDs are the displays of the future. It'll take many, many years to get to that future. Until then, LCDs are more than enough.

You're just repeating the same crap again. Harder to accomplish and not being done are two different things. You are incoherently rambling to sound smart and rudely prove something that is false and cannot be proved.

And when it's butthurt it's butthurt. Even a year ago it was.
And you are the one that was going on. Someone had to come in and correct the exaggerations and misconceptions.

Amoled is overtaking and overall has way more advantages even now in earlier stages. The life span is already vastly improved and only getting better.
 

Prodo123

macrumors 68020
Nov 18, 2010
2,326
10
You're just repeating the same crap again. Harder to accomplish and not being done are two different things. You are incoherently rambling to sound smart and rudely prove something that is false and cannot be proved.

And when it's butthurt it's butthurt. Even a year ago it was.
And you are the one that was going on. Someone had to come in and correct the exaggerations and misconceptions.

Amoled is overtaking and overall has way more advantages even now in earlier stages. The life span is already vastly improved and only getting better.

It's quite coherent if you actually read through it.
You're misconstruing its meaning, that's all.

I never said AMOLED will never be better. I really don't know what you're trying to argue because for all I care it sounds like you're agreeing with me: AMOLED is the screen of the future.
All I ever said, and will say again, is that LCDs as they stand now and for the next decade or so will be superior to AMOLED screens and that using them on a bigger format like a laptop display will have too many drawbacks as of now and the near future. Someday AMOLEDs will be practical enough for laptop use, but again that's going to be in a long time.
I keep repeating what I said over and over again because, well, that's all that needs to be said. The rest is up to you to comprehend what I say. But that's the same for any type of communication, isn't it?

Man you sound butthurt and to be quite frank, very rude.
 

wisor

macrumors newbie
Sep 8, 2013
1
0
OLEDs are so good and definitely the future that one of the biggest investors (Sony) in the OLED technology canceled their development and stopped producing them altogether.

http://www.tech-vs-tech.com/goodbye-oled-hello-crystal-led-tv/
http://www.tech-vs-tech.com/sony-discontinues-production-of-oled-tvs/


I have yet to see a good calibrated OLED.
http://www.digitalversus.com/games-c...ls-n23993.html
http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.htm

Sure, they have some advantages but also major flaws. For instance, great black levels but poor white reproduction (greyish or blue/yellow tint and they’re also pretty dim compared to most LCD panels). The biggest flaw is the piss poor life expectancy, which is borderline criminal.

Prepare to throw your Vita/Samsung phone out of the window because after ~2 years of mild to heavy usage because the blue diodes will vanish. The screen will get even dimmer and get a yellowish tint. Kinda ridiculous that the display will die sooner than a freaking lithium-ion battery! Over saturated cartoonish colours, poor longevity, vertical lines, mura problems (google PS vita mura), laughable brightness which gets worse over time, black dots, screen burn-in and the list goes on and on. Simply half-baked in ever way. It’s called built-in/planned obsolescence, the newest (old) trend in consumer electronics. Watch the documentary, “The Light Bulb Conspiracy”.

http://imgur.com/a/kf9E7

People saying that modern OLED panels last/survive around 5 years with 8 hour usage each day are wrong. It will degrade within those 5 years. After 12 months/around 15.000 - 18.000 hours the blue diodes will completely vanish which renders it unusable.

And you know what's sad? Sony knew about all this beforehand,

At CES Sony engineers I spoke with said that OLED technology is inferior to LCD panels for several reasons: the lack of brightness, inaccurate colors due to over-saturation, and a blue hue to the screen. That’s why the upcoming Xperia S and Xperia Ion will both come equipped with LCD displays.

There is no denying that the OLED technology is prototype, half-arsed rubbish. Definitely not ready for prime time.
Also, there is no such thing as a "simple" or "pure" OLED; just as there are no "pure" LED TVs. (LEDs are LCDs, it's referring to the backlight technology) That's Sony marketing for you.

It's either AMOLED or PMOLED. (with addition to enhancements like RGBplus or the hated PenTile Matrix technology used in the Galaxy SIII)
http://www.oled-info.com/pmoled-vs-amoled-whats-difference

The reason most companies choose PenTile when using AMOLED panels is that it enhances the life expectancy from 12 months to 18 months. Major disadvantage are the black subpixels you see on white/bright backgrounds. If you have good eyes you can see the checkerboard pattern which is kinda annoying, but then again isn't really noticeable in motion/moving frames. So still very suboptimal.

I could go on and on about what complete and utter rubbish OLED displays are...
 
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