An Ad That asks for the Truth.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MrMacMan, Jul 28, 2003.

  1. macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #1
    I think we all deserve the Truth, that is why when I read my NYT I was supprised that someone acually wrote an Ad questioning Bush On The War...

    http://wedeservethetruth.com/docs/wdtt.pdf

    I mean this pretty much sums up my questions about the war...

    Oh I can't wait till November when my running bet with a person on these forums becomes offical.

    Where are The WMD?
     
  2. macrumors 6502

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    #2
    Good to see all those quotes in one place. The more time goes on the more absurd the US claims seem.

    I have a collection of Blair's statements over those months; equally farcical. I'll post it if anyone's interested.
     
  3. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    I note with interest that one of the sponsors of this ad is George Soros. If he takes on this issue, we can safely say this won't be the last we'll hear about it.

    I'd be interested in seeing the Blair quotes. My collection of Bush administration quotes includes quite a few not included in the ad. I've posted a few here, but I'll post the entire list if anyone is interested.
     
  4. macrumors 6502

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    #4
    How did you get your hands on a PDF?
    I see it was made using Quark Express 4.11. Is this the original or did you remake it?

    Anyway, it's interesting. Do you think there will be an official response from the White House?
     
  5. macrumors 6502

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    #5
    Blair's Statements on WMD

    24 September 2002

    "(Saddam's) weapons of mass destruction programme is active, detailed and growing. The policy of containment is not working. The weapons of mass destruction programme is not shut down. It is up and running....

    "The intelligence picture (the intelligence services) paint is one accumulated over the past four years. It is extensive, detailed and authoritative.

    "It concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population; and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability....

    "On chemical weapons, the dossier shows that Iraq continues to produce chemical agent for chemical weapons; has rebuilt previously destroyed production plants across Iraq; has bought dual-use chemical facilities; has retained the key personnel formerly engaged in the chemical weapons programme; and has a serious ongoing research programme into weapons production, all of it well funded..."
    House of Commons

    25 February 2003

    "The intelligence is clear: (Saddam) continues to believe his WMD programme is essential both for internal repression and for external aggression.

    "It is essential to his regional power. Prior to the inspectors coming back in he was engaged in a systematic exercise in concealment of the weapons.

    "The biological agents we believe Iraq can produce include anthrax, botulinum, toxin, aflatoxin and ricin. All eventually result in excruciatingly painful death."
    House of Commons

    18 March 2003

    "We are asked now seriously to accept that in the last few years-contrary to all history, contrary to all intelligence-Saddam decided unilaterally to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd."
    House of Commons

    14 April 2003

    "On weapons of mass destruction, of 146 possible sites known to us, investigations have begun in seven but, in any event, we know that for six months before the return of UN inspectors, Saddam put in place a systematic campaign of concealment of weapons of mass destruction.

    "Until we are able to interrogate the scientists and experts who worked on the programmes, and the UN has a list of some 5,000 names, progress is bound to be slow. A specialised team, however, is beginning work and we are in discussion with allies and the UN as to what the future role of the UN in such a process may be. "
    House of Commons


    4 June 2003

    "As for the weapons of mass destruction, I point out again that the Iraq survey group is the body that will be able to go and interview the scientists and experts and visit the sites.

    "There are literally thousands of sites. As I was told in Iraq, information is coming in the entire time, but it is only now that the Iraq survey group has been put together that a dedicated team of people, which includes former UN inspectors, scientists and experts, will be able to go in and do the job properly.

    "As I have said throughout, I have no doubt that they will find the clearest possible evidence of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction."
    House of Commons

    8 July 2003

    "I don't concede it at all that the intelligence at the time was wrong.

    "I have absolutely no doubt at all that we will find evidence of weapons of mass destruction programmes.

    "The Iraq Survey Group has only just begun its work. Now, it's now interviewing the scientists and the experts and the witnesses and I have no doubt whatever that in the end, these people will talk to us about the programmes and we will have the evidence of the programmes."
    Evidence to Commons liaison committee
     
  6. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #6
    The Bush Administration Collection

    "What I have said is a fact -- that there are al Qaeda in a number of locations in Iraq."
    —Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, August 21, 2002

    "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
    —Dick Cheney, Speech to VFW National Convention, August 26, 2002

    "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
    —George W. Bush, United Nations Address, September 12, 2002

    "We know they have weapons of mass destruction. We know they have active programs. There isn't any debate about it."
    —Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, September 26, 2002

    ".. there were in the past and have been contacts between senior Iraqi officials and members of al Qaeda going back for actually quite a long time. We know too that several of the detainees, in particular some high-ranking detainees, have said that Iraq provided some training to al Qaeda in chemical weapons development. So, yes, there are contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda. We know that Saddam Hussein has a long history with terrorism in general. And there are some al Qaeda personnel who found refuge in Baghdad. There clearly are contacts between al Qaeda and Iraq that can be documented... [but] no one is trying to make an argument at this point that Saddam Hussein somehow had operational control of what happened on September 11th, so we don't want to push this too far, but this is a story that is unfolding, and it is getting clear, and we're learning more. ... When the picture is clear, we'll make full disclosure about it."
    —National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, September 26, 2002

    "I truly believe that now that the war has changed, now -- that we are a battlefield, this man [Saddam] poses a much greater threat than anybody could have possibly imagined... There's no doubt his hatred is mainly directed at us. After all, this is the guy that tried to kill my Dad."
    —George W. Bush, Texas Fundraiser, September 28, 2002

    "Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons... we have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
    —George W. Bush, Radio Address, October 5, 2002

    "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his 'nuclear mujahideen' - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
    —George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, October 7, 2002

    "The Iraqi regime... possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons... We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas... We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
    —George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, October 7, 2002

    "If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world."
    —Ari Fleischer, Press Briefing, December 2, 2002

    "We know for a fact that there are weapons there."
    —Ari Fleischer, Press Briefing, January 9, 2003

    Q: Mr. Secretary, on Iraq, how much money do you think the Department of Defense would need to pay for a war with Iraq?

    Rumsfeld: Well, the Office of Management and Budget, has come up come up with a number that's something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question. I think the way to put it into perspective is that the estimates as to what September 11th cost the United States of America ranges high up into the hundreds of billions of dollars. Now, another event in the United States that was like September 11th, and which cost thousands of lives, but one that involved a -- for example, a biological weapon, would be -- have a cost in human life, as well as in billions, hundreds of billions of dollars, that would be vastly greater.
    —January 19, 2003

    "Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
    —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

    "Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda."
    —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

    "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."
    —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

    "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."
    —Colin Powell, UN Security Council, February 5, 2003

    "We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
    —George W. Bush, Radio Address, February 8, 2003

    "If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us . . . But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct."
    —Colin Powell, Interview with Radio France International, February 28, 2003

    "So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? ... I think our judgment has to be clearly not."
    —Colin Powell, Remarks to UN Security Council, March 7, 2003

    "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
    —George W. Bush, March 17, 2003

    "Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly... all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes."
    —Ari Fleisher, Press Briefing, March 21, 2003

    "There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And... as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them."
    —Gen. Tommy Franks, March 22, 2003

    "One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites."
    —Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark, March 22, 2003

    "I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction."
    —Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman, March 23, 2003 (Washington Post, p. A27)
     
  7. thread starter macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #7
    If you look on the bottom of the PDF you see his site. I didn't re-touch it... Not that skilled.

    I got that site from one of my fav. Political Links (also in my profile) whatreallyhappened.com


    And thanks both of you for The Quotes, it re-affirms my beliefs that during the war and now after bush lied to me.
     
  8. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    mr. soros is indeed the driving force. iirc, he took out fullpage ads in the NYT, the houston chronicle and a st. louis paper. the other names are the foundation that paid for it. $450k -- again, iirc. (i read the article about it a couple days ago). maybe it was $187k. both numbers are in my head for some reason.

    there's an accompanying site here
     
  9. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #9
    I just think that it is sad that we have become such an "I got to have it now world" that we have zero patience for anything. No one today could have made it in the 40's. WWII lasted nearly 7 years. Reconstruction of Germany another 10, and we are STILL finding out things about the Nazi's. Two days after Baghdad fell, people were already saying "where are the weapons".

    This isn't a video game. You don't find them inside the map of the program. It is a state the size of California. The former President has even came out and said lay off, which I personally find very amazing, and I have written Clinton a letter stating that while I did not agree with a lot that he did in office, that I have the utmost respect for the man that the class act that he and Madeline Albright took last week. Be patient. Clinton said the same things about Saddam in 98. I believed him. I still believe him. I supported Clinton in 98 over this, and I support Bush now.

    It hasn't even been a year yet and we are already discrediting everying because of lack of finding.
     
  10. Ugg
    macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #10
    Times change and nobody today really truly wants to live in the 40s so it is sort of a moot point really.

    Reconstruction in Germany would have proceeded much more quickly if it hadn't been for all the political bs going on. Once again, times change and 60 years on one would think that a few lessons about reconstruction had been learned.

    A lot of claims were made about those weapons and how they could be used with very short notice. That was obviously very untrue if not an out and out lie. Certainly grounds for discrediting someone in my book.
     
  11. macrumors newbie

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    #11
    Clinton is one smart cookie. This can not be said about any of the 7 dwarfs. He is protecting his actions against Iraq which were justified with the same quotes posted above. More importantly how good will his warning sound when the WMD are found. Not only will he be looked at as best politician ever, but the 7 dwarfs will look like a bunch of idiots. They are betting that Saddam told the truth and Bush lied. This is not a bet even Clinton is willing to take.

    This ad was taken out to build upon a poll that was released today by CNN and will only enflame the left to hate Bush more and more. Over 60% of democrats see the war as going badly. If things remain as they are, Bush can easily take 30% of the democratic vote today. It things get slightly better in Iraq where we only lose one soldier a week instead of one per day, then the those numbers will change drastically. God knows what will happen with the economy really picks up.
     
  12. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #12
    ahhhhhhh.... NOW i see sanfelipe.
     
  13. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #13
    What's more, there is no meaningful analogy to be found between Germany (or Japan) in 1945 and Iraq in 2003.
     
  14. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    for as many times as it's been mentioned on these boards that comparing bush's administration to nazi germany is meaningless, i find it amusing how often the iraq reconstruction is compared to germany's.
     
  15. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #15
    I'm pretty sure this didn't come out quite the way you intended... but assuming I know what you meant, it's true that historians scoff at the comparison of Germany/Japan and Iraq. The current situation is probably more difficult and complex, and is certainly very different.
     
  16. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #16
    i'm not seeing it. in what way is it ambiguous?
     
  17. thread starter macrumors 604

    MrMacMan

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    #17
    What the hell... I just said that...

    When you say there is something there, and you say it and say it your point needs to be proven.

    'Iraq has WMD'
    'Iraq is going to USE WMD'
    'We know where the WMD are'
    'We are going in to get the WMD'

    And now they have looked the sites over and found nothing... why?

    Because they probably lied in the first place.

    Actually you have a point, maybe it is him...


    Look they Overhyped WMD so much that they couldn't stop themselves from keeping the lie growing and growing.

    If Iraq has Gallons and Gallons of Bio Toxins you really think they could hide them with all of our 'superior' intelligence?
     
  18. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    sorry... didn't see it...
     
  19. macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #19
    Not ambiguous, I just didn't quite follow what you were saying at first. I get it now. Carry on...
     
  20. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #20
    No it is not a moot point, it is a perfect point, that the world was far more patient then then now. As for the WMD's, could it be that Saddam moved them? Has them hidden somewhere else?

    Why does it automatically mean that the reason for war is a lie. AND if it is, then Clinton lied about the same stuff? No, I cannot believe that. I 100% back Clinton in 98, and again now, in his assessment, the UN's assessment, that they had then, and had not accounted for many of the weapons that we know they had.
     
  21. macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #21
    do you feel that the administration at any point was overconfident in its intelligence analysis?
     
  22. macrumors regular

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    #22
    Look at the evidence for Bush using exageration, faulty sources, non-current infoprmation and hype. Then look at what evidence we have of a vast WMD program in Iraq.

    Do you see the difference?

    Could WMDs still be found, yes. But it is very clear that the administration misled and misinformed the US public. I do not care if he did it "for our own good". I do not want a leader who lies to get his own way.

    1st Truth, then Justice, then the American way.
    We hold these truths self-evident...
    etc.
     
  23. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #23
    No, I do not. You have to remember that I helped gather some of that intelligence when I worked for the government. It is solid intel.
     
  24. macrumors 601

    Backtothemac

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    #24
    No, see if you are right, this administration did not mislead and misinform the US public. Clinton and Bush both did if you are right. Don't forget that.
     
  25. macrumors 6502

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    #25
    Yes, but it was Bush that invaded Iraq, not Clinton. Don't forget that!
     

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