Andrea Yates Found NOT GUILTY

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by XNine, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. XNine macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #1
    That's right, not guilty by reason of insanity on behalf of postpartum (which everyone knows is a ******** excuse used by lawyers and shrinks).

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14024728/

    So, let's all go around drowning children in bathtubs and claim postpartum!
     
  2. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

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    #2
    No. You don't kill your children because you're depressed, you kill them because you're a monster. This is ********.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    You guys- this is also a woman who begged her doctors to lock her up before anything even happened. She was indeed crazy. Most of the the time, insanity is a poor excuse. In this case, I think it's appropriate- she's nuttier than a fruitcake.

    BTW- I'm not defending her, but I do feel that this is an appropriate outcome.
     
  4. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #4
    Not disputing this case, but postpartum is a very real and debilitating condition. Anyone who has messed with or has had probs with their endocrinology can attest to that...

    Anyway, onwards.
     
  5. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #5
    My understanding here is that the State of Texas only charged her with three counts of murder in the original trial. That would mean the other two charges are still out there if the state feels it can learn from any mistakes this time around.
     
  6. Deepdale macrumors 68000

    Deepdale

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    #6
    Aside from what the criminal justice system allows for the defendants and their attorneys to avail themselves of, BV's point is well worth remembering since PPD is an insidious ailment for those who have had difficult experiences grappling with it.
     
  7. devilot Moderator emeritus

    devilot

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    #7
    I agree. I've only begun to learn a tiny bit about postpartum depression in one of my previous classes and it sounds terrifying.

    In case you didn't read the linked article, I think that this part is particularly relevant:
    I think it's fair to say that she had a serious condition, and one that can't be ignored in light of this case.
     
  8. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #8
    in the US, mental illness is widely mocked. we've got a long way to go before everyone agrees it's as real as cancer or heart disease.
     
  9. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

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    #9
    No one is saying that PPD isn't serious. It is very serious. However, is it an excuse for murder...?
     
  10. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #10
    My point exactly. If any woman is so depressed that she could kill her child, something was wrong with her before she had it. I've known many women who get emotional because of PPD, but they don't kill their children because of it. They go to a doctor and have it rectified.

    If the father knew she was this crazy, then he's just as guilty, IMO, because he could have prevented this.
     
  11. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #11
    Excuse? If she's not culpable then where's the excuse? No-one's excusing her... she's going to be committed to a state psychiatric institution — a real easy stretch, right?

    Or are you suggesting mentally-ill people should be imprisoned or even executed?
     
  12. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #12
    No, that's the reason they call it POST-partum depression, not PRE-partum depression. If she had it before she gave birth, it's not PPD.

    Are you a medical doctor? What makes you qualified to make a judgement that all cases of PPD are like the ones you've seen in 'many women'?

    In one post you've gone from "she's not that crazy" to "if he know she was this crazy". Which is it?

    Personally I feel Russel Yates bears some culpability, but I don't know if it rises to the level of criminal culpability.
     
  13. Applespider macrumors G4

    Applespider

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    #13
    Mental illness, and PPD, are very real and people in the throes of them don't think or act reasonably. Their delusions seem so realistic that they have to act on them.

    Andrea Yates may never be sane; I wouldn't be entirely surprised if, when lucidity returns, the knowledge that she killed her children drove her back into madness. She has a life sentence of guilt knowing what she did and I don't believe prison would make her regret it any more.

    As for her husband, it's easy to say with hindsight that he should have realised but perhaps he just truly didn't believe that it could go that far. Again, he's probably beating himself up over it far more than anyone else is.
     
  14. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #14
    That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying she was a lunatic BEFORE she had PPD. Which is evident as she was hospitalized twice for suicide attempts years before this happened.

    Other than the fact that my birth name means "Doctor," no.

    No, I think she's a lunatic, I just think that PPD is a cop-out that the system has allowed one too many times. If I can be PROVEN wrong that PPD does cause women to go this crazy, then I'll swallow my words.

    I think it should definitely be looked into to determine his role or his measurement of guilt. If he was with her and he knew of her hospitalizations, he knew that she was psychotic and depressed ebfore they had all of these kids, then he should have tried to get her help.
     
  15. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #15
    This is not an excuse for murder. Everybody knows she killed her children, and the defense made no secret of this fact. Let's look at some of the points:

    1. She pleaded with doctors to help her because she was afraid she might do something bad

    2. She claimed she was saving her children from Satan

    Does this not sound like a woman who is suffering from a severe mental disorder? The woman needs medical attention, not to be banished to a prison cell.

    The fact that Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity does not mean this story is over. Yates will never be a free woman again. Ever. She will likely spend many years in a mental facility, and even if she is ever released, close tabs will be kept on her for the rest of her life. Not guilty by reason of insanity is a life sentence.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    If you think she's a lunatic, then why do you have any problem with the verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity?
     
  17. XNine thread starter macrumors 68040

    XNine

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    #17
    Simply because of the mention of PPD in the verdict. If they just did it based on Insanity, which she obviously is insane, then that's fine. But I get tired of seeing all of these children dying (this case, the one where the mother threw her children over a bridge, the cases where mothers drive their children off cliffs or into lakes, and many others) because of "PPD."
     
  18. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #18
    insanity is a mental disorder that comes from mental illness. PPD is the mental illness that caused her alleged insanity.

    and by putting PPD in quotes, you are supporting my earlier statement that the US (at least) has a long way to go in accepting mental illness as a "real" disease.
     
  19. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #19
    Throw brickbats at me if you will, but I call this justice finally served.

    Horrible as the crime was, the woman was (and AFAIK, still is) clearly nuts. You cannot simply say "Lots of women have PPD," because there are hugely varying degrees. Lots of men have depression, too. I have it myself. But I've never tried to commit suicide or kill anyone else. Is the reason that I am more moral than other people? I doubt it. Before I got treated, I considered suicide, it was so painful. My behavior towards other people was also not always rational, either. I had a good family that helped me get help before I became worse. Not everybody has that. Lots of people have family members, acquaintances, and life situations that only serve to feed the depression.

    (And BTW, isn't Yates the one who was being told to see some wacko minister who told her that she and/or her children were evil?)

    I'm not going to condemn Yates, who was not in control of her faculties and who will have to live with this for the rest of her life. Blaming her as if she were merely an evil, immoral person is the easy way for the rest of us to handle it. It beats facing the idea that such horrors are not always recognized and dealt with until it's too late.
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    So, since her doctor warned against having more children, shouldn't she and her husband both face charges for having another child? The last child is undoubtedly the one that sent her over the edge. I'm also amazed that the doctor didn't advise Child Protective Services and that her husband seemingly ignored her problems.

    She killed her children and deserves to serve time but her husband isn't exactly guilt free.
     
  21. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #21
    Isn't it funny how people think they know better than a raft of medical experts and a jury that sat through the entire case... and as if this woman is being let off scot-free to enjoy a sunny afternoon in the park.
     
  22. devilot Moderator emeritus

    devilot

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    #22
    Of course it is. A psychiatric institution is a walk in the park. :rolleyes: And of course, it's no big deal that she will forever live with the stigma of 1) being called a liar if a person feels she wasn't really "out of her mind" or 2) being called a psycho (as if being psychotic makes you less of a human, deserving of real connections and relationships with people).
     
  23. aquajet macrumors 68020

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    #23
    Sometimes I wonder if those who scoff at the idea of "not guilty by reason of insanity" really believe this is the case. From now on, she'll likely be unable to take a piss without someone breathing down her neck.
     
  24. Chacala_Nayarit macrumors 6502

    Chacala_Nayarit

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    #24
    Well, hell bells, at she sent her kids to heaven! Praise Jesus, another christian nutcase is found not guiltly for doing the lord's good work! :rolleyes: :mad:
     
  25. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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    #25
    Why can't you just cheer up and get over it?
     

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