I used to use a GPS quite a bit. But then I sold my boat. I'd plot my position about every hour by making a little cross on the chart One of the GPS units went with the boat because it was wired in but the hand held unit I still have. But I've not had a reason to turn it on.
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Anti-GPS thread
- Thread starter boss1
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Hi
Taken from Location-based service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Finally, check out Howstuffworks "How GPS Phones Work"
Check out A-GPS.
Taken from Location-based service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Doesn't sound accurate enough for turn-by-turn navigation. I'm not at all a cellular or communictions expert and, therefore, I could be way off. Anyone know anything further?
Finally, check out Howstuffworks "How GPS Phones Work"
I think the OP is dead set against GPS no matter how useful it is for other people.
I'm at a stage where I'm going to need a GPS device and phone hybrid. See, to the OP and anti-GPS people, we don't all live in giant sprawling cities where you can never really get lost. I live on the foothills of the moors along with millions of other people from Oldham, Manchester, Sheffield all the way up to... well... the most northern part of Scotland. Before GPS came along if anyone went walking on the moors they'd more or less be required to take a map and compass. Fog decends quickly, rain, night, whatever. You need to know exactly where you are. Everyone I know who goes up there carries a portable Tom Tom or whatever with them these days. A phone with GPS built in would be one less thing to carry and a million less things than using a map. Waterproof GPS device = godly.
Oh and skiing in Poland. Veeery useful.
If GPS on a phone manages to save just one life then I'm all for it.
At the moment I go about with an iPod mini, SE k800i and if I need GPS a Palm T|X and a bluetooth GPS reciever. The iPhone gets rid of the first 2 easily. I would be very happy if I could loose the Palm too.
GPS is not something I use everyday - I know how to get to work, friends, relatives and shops etc., but it is very useful whe going on holiday and you are on unfamiliar roads. I used it everytime I got into the car on holiday in Portugal. I also value having a clean driving licence, so when driving on motorways, knowing where the speed cameras are is very useful.
Is not having GPS on an iPhone going to stop me wanting one? No.
Would I use GPS on an iPhone? Absolutely.
Going off topic a bit,I used to like Palms, but it looks like they are going down the windows route, since my phone does calender, address book and email, all I need it for is taking notes at meetings, watching video, reading eBooks and GPS, all of which the iPhone could be capable of.
It would be a shame if Apple didn't enable a GPS application to run on the iPhone. If you don't need it you don't need to use it, but plenty of people would, and probably pay extra for it. I would.
GPS is not something I use everyday - I know how to get to work, friends, relatives and shops etc., but it is very useful whe going on holiday and you are on unfamiliar roads. I used it everytime I got into the car on holiday in Portugal. I also value having a clean driving licence, so when driving on motorways, knowing where the speed cameras are is very useful.
Is not having GPS on an iPhone going to stop me wanting one? No.
Would I use GPS on an iPhone? Absolutely.
Going off topic a bit,I used to like Palms, but it looks like they are going down the windows route, since my phone does calender, address book and email, all I need it for is taking notes at meetings, watching video, reading eBooks and GPS, all of which the iPhone could be capable of.
It would be a shame if Apple didn't enable a GPS application to run on the iPhone. If you don't need it you don't need to use it, but plenty of people would, and probably pay extra for it. I would.
Bottom line - for a $600 phone shold have GPS and Navigation as an option... whether used or not should be up to the user. But if I can get Navigation on a $50 LG phone, I would sure expect it on a $600 iPhone...
Yes, Virginia, there is an FCC requirement
The law calls the cell phone location technology E911, perhaps you've heard of it? To save you time fuddling with entering the words "cell phone location technology" into Google, here is a quick description of E911:
Short for Enhanced 911, a location technology advanced by the FCC that will enable mobile, or cellular, phones to process 911 emergency calls and enable emergency services to locate the geographic position of the caller. When a person makes a 911 call using a traditional phone with ground wires, the call is routed to the nearest public safety answering point (PSAP) that then distributes the emergency call to the proper services. The PSAP receives the caller's phone number and the exact location of the phone from which the call was made. Prior to 1996, 911 callers using a mobile phone would have to access their service providers in order to get verification of subscription service before the call was routed to a PSAP. In 1996 the FCC ruled that a 911 call must go directly to the PSAP without receiving verification of service from a specific cellular service provider. The call must be handled by any available service carrier even if it is not the cellular phone customer's specific carrier. Under the FCC's rules, all mobile phones manufactured for sale in the United States after February 13, 2000, that are capable of operating in an analog mode must include this special method for processing 911 calls.
The FCC has rolled out E911 in two phases. In 1998, Phase I required that mobile phone carriers identify the originating call's phone number and the location of the signal tower, or cell, accurate to within a mile. In 2001, Phase II required that each mobile phone company doing business in the United States must offer either handset- or network-based location detection capability so that the caller's location is determined by the geographic location of the cellular phone within 100 meter accuracy and not the location of the tower that is transmitting its signal. The FCC refers to this as Automatic Location Identification (ALI).
I oversimplified the location mechanism for simplicity's sake, but since you also have a Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering and over twenty years experience in radio communications, I'll give you the straight technical scoop:
Most of the carriers selecting the E911 technology favor a combination of time difference of arrival (TDOA), which calculates a phone's position based on the speed the signal reaches multiple nearby antennas, and angle of arrival (AOA). With AOA, cellular towers identify the direction from which a signal is coming and then plot the direction of the incoming call based on a reading from two towers. TDOA is how GPS works, as you know. ESM and SIGINT receivers usually use AOA to get a position fix. Yes, I know multipath effects add Rayleigh fading to the signal strength measurements, but they also add errors to TDOA and AOA measurements as well.
As for the case where only two cell phone towers are in range in a rural area, they are usually sited to provide overlapping coverage along commonly used roads - which is also where you're most likely to find someone who is not familiar with the area and needs help. And I still think the third tower down the road could still get enough signal to make a TDOA and/or AOA estimate. In any case, emergency crews would start with the reasonable assumption to start looking for the person on or near the road.
As for GPS versus E911 accuracy, remember that GPS WAAS (which is a form of Differential GPS) provides that 3 meter accuracy. If you are not near a WAAS transmitter you are back to 15 to 30 meter accuracy. In any case, if you tell a highly motivated paramedic that someone is hurt and the paramedic knows their location within 300 feet - I'm pretty sure they will be able to find them.
Look, if you like GPS and already carry one around - adding it to your phone saves you weight and cost.
OK, I'm done wrestling with this subject. Happy trails to all. I'm gonna go look at Leopard screen shots and count down the days to my new iMac.
The law calls the cell phone location technology E911, perhaps you've heard of it? To save you time fuddling with entering the words "cell phone location technology" into Google, here is a quick description of E911:
Short for Enhanced 911, a location technology advanced by the FCC that will enable mobile, or cellular, phones to process 911 emergency calls and enable emergency services to locate the geographic position of the caller. When a person makes a 911 call using a traditional phone with ground wires, the call is routed to the nearest public safety answering point (PSAP) that then distributes the emergency call to the proper services. The PSAP receives the caller's phone number and the exact location of the phone from which the call was made. Prior to 1996, 911 callers using a mobile phone would have to access their service providers in order to get verification of subscription service before the call was routed to a PSAP. In 1996 the FCC ruled that a 911 call must go directly to the PSAP without receiving verification of service from a specific cellular service provider. The call must be handled by any available service carrier even if it is not the cellular phone customer's specific carrier. Under the FCC's rules, all mobile phones manufactured for sale in the United States after February 13, 2000, that are capable of operating in an analog mode must include this special method for processing 911 calls.
The FCC has rolled out E911 in two phases. In 1998, Phase I required that mobile phone carriers identify the originating call's phone number and the location of the signal tower, or cell, accurate to within a mile. In 2001, Phase II required that each mobile phone company doing business in the United States must offer either handset- or network-based location detection capability so that the caller's location is determined by the geographic location of the cellular phone within 100 meter accuracy and not the location of the tower that is transmitting its signal. The FCC refers to this as Automatic Location Identification (ALI).
I oversimplified the location mechanism for simplicity's sake, but since you also have a Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering and over twenty years experience in radio communications, I'll give you the straight technical scoop:
Most of the carriers selecting the E911 technology favor a combination of time difference of arrival (TDOA), which calculates a phone's position based on the speed the signal reaches multiple nearby antennas, and angle of arrival (AOA). With AOA, cellular towers identify the direction from which a signal is coming and then plot the direction of the incoming call based on a reading from two towers. TDOA is how GPS works, as you know. ESM and SIGINT receivers usually use AOA to get a position fix. Yes, I know multipath effects add Rayleigh fading to the signal strength measurements, but they also add errors to TDOA and AOA measurements as well.
As for the case where only two cell phone towers are in range in a rural area, they are usually sited to provide overlapping coverage along commonly used roads - which is also where you're most likely to find someone who is not familiar with the area and needs help. And I still think the third tower down the road could still get enough signal to make a TDOA and/or AOA estimate. In any case, emergency crews would start with the reasonable assumption to start looking for the person on or near the road.
As for GPS versus E911 accuracy, remember that GPS WAAS (which is a form of Differential GPS) provides that 3 meter accuracy. If you are not near a WAAS transmitter you are back to 15 to 30 meter accuracy. In any case, if you tell a highly motivated paramedic that someone is hurt and the paramedic knows their location within 300 feet - I'm pretty sure they will be able to find them.
Look, if you like GPS and already carry one around - adding it to your phone saves you weight and cost.
OK, I'm done wrestling with this subject. Happy trails to all. I'm gonna go look at Leopard screen shots and count down the days to my new iMac.
I WILL have GPS in my next phone, car, or both.
My parents have it, and it's GREAT. It's incredibly mature and efficient, much better than paper maps.
If you say there's no need for GPS, then I take it maps have no use either? You must then never leave your neighborhood
Because a GPS (for driving as opposed to hiking) is basically the ultimate map: it knows where you are. Now throw in the ability to give you directions!
I don't care so much about OTHER people knowing where I am. (But maybe I would if I was surviving on roots and berries after being dropped in the forest by a tornado.)
My parents have it, and it's GREAT. It's incredibly mature and efficient, much better than paper maps.
If you say there's no need for GPS, then I take it maps have no use either? You must then never leave your neighborhood
Because a GPS (for driving as opposed to hiking) is basically the ultimate map: it knows where you are. Now throw in the ability to give you directions!
I don't care so much about OTHER people knowing where I am. (But maybe I would if I was surviving on roots and berries after being dropped in the forest by a tornado.)
sales reps would use it all the time. my lord boss1 - you must have a job in an office or anything related to sales. if you don't or never have, then you've got a good excuse for not knowing better. if you have or do, you should be ashamed
my wife is a financial advisor. she's on the road ALOT. she could load up maps/routes for meetings of the day; when she's on the road, if there's a stoppage in traffic, a gps phone or mapping device could point her around the stoppage.
so many uses.
but i'm a hunter and use a gps device all the time and swear by them on a number of levels.
i think your thread is personally biases...you have no need for one so it fueled your thoughts. no problem with that, but you should know a little bit about your topic first
my wife is a financial advisor. she's on the road ALOT. she could load up maps/routes for meetings of the day; when she's on the road, if there's a stoppage in traffic, a gps phone or mapping device could point her around the stoppage.
so many uses.
but i'm a hunter and use a gps device all the time and swear by them on a number of levels.
i think your thread is personally biases...you have no need for one so it fueled your thoughts. no problem with that, but you should know a little bit about your topic first
To sum up, GPS is useful for:
Whether GPS in your cell phone is equally useful as a handheld unit for the above is a valid question, but I don't see why not.
- businesses monitoring their clients (trucks, taxis, couriers)
- parents keeping tabs on their kids' whereabouts
- helping road warriors and busy executives get from place to place in unfamiliar places
- navigating YOU from point to point through unfamiliar places (vacation, or like me and severely directionally-challenged)
- locating camps, trails, game, in hunting and fishing
- emergency services (911 location)
- geocaching
- camping, orienteering
- positioning, waypointing, charting on lakes and oceans
Whether GPS in your cell phone is equally useful as a handheld unit for the above is a valid question, but I don't see why not.
GPS is one of those things that does not seem necessary at all...until you own one. And then you'll wonder why you didn't get it sooner!
I don't know how much I'd use it in my phone, but in a car, there is no question. If I travel with someone who doesn't have a GPS in their car, I bring mine. The next car I buy will have a factory-installed GPS
I love my Garmin Nuvi 360 - It's awesome!
I don't know how much I'd use it in my phone, but in a car, there is no question. If I travel with someone who doesn't have a GPS in their car, I bring mine. The next car I buy will have a factory-installed GPS
I love my Garmin Nuvi 360 - It's awesome!
Human existence has managed without GPS for thousands of years and all of a sudden people seem to imply it's a necessary navigation survival tool.
Human existence has managed without cellphones for thousands of years and all of a sudden people seem to imply it's a necessary survival tool.
Human existence has managed without computers for thousands of years and all of a sudden people seem to imply it's a necessary survival tool.
...
GPS is a great technology and I've toyed with the idea of getting one for years. Also, as an archaeologist it's a standard tool of the trade these days, along with other electronic survey equipment.
With that said, a lot of people with GPS satnav rely on it a little too much when travelling - sometimes those things are just wrong, and if you don't have a map handy and some awareness you can still get yourself lost, even with the GPS.
I doubt they'll put GPS in the iPhone but it would be a very cool feature.
With that said, a lot of people with GPS satnav rely on it a little too much when travelling - sometimes those things are just wrong, and if you don't have a map handy and some awareness you can still get yourself lost, even with the GPS.
I doubt they'll put GPS in the iPhone but it would be a very cool feature.
I have OEM GPS in two of my vehicles, I would never buy another vehicle without it. The GPS in the Japanese car is much more functional than the German car, though both have saved me lots of time...that's where the 'need' derives from. In 'Freeway Mode' it shows me as many upcoming exits as I want to scroll though and tells me what services are at each...that doesn't sound like much, but when you stop for gas and eat at 'Joe Truck Stop Burger', then realize In-N-Out was at the next exit having a GPS that knows where every Starbucks on earth is be pretty damn cool! GPS with POIs in a phone would ROCK!!! GPS sucks batteries like there going out of style though, so I don't expect it soon. It is no substitute for a map though when traveling long distances, both the Jap and the Krout cars think the quickest way to Vegas is through Los Angeles...
gpsphone
here is a good article on how a gpsphone works
http://www.itag.com/phone/545/545/
this site also has a way to find your phone : iTag.com
here is a good article on how a gpsphone works
http://www.itag.com/phone/545/545/
this site also has a way to find your phone : iTag.com
Idk about you but my mother is terrible with directions. An iPhone comes in handy when your in the car with her and she's yelling about not knowing were the heck she is. That said I only have an iPod touch now awaiting my iPhone....also how can you be against a GPS IF your lost. I guarentee when your driving to an important meetig and you can't find t you'll regret this thread and use it.
EDIT: wtf? Why was this thread revived I barely noticed tell now!
EDIT: wtf? Why was this thread revived I barely noticed tell now!
the military ones can be loaded with special encryption keys. the Air Force can send a command so that the satellites start to return less accurate info. usually in case of war or a terrorist threat. the military ones will continue to function and the civilian ones will be accurate to only 300 meters or so.
Yep. I didn't check the dates on the posts either and I was reading along and getting ready to hit "Reply" and post my thoughts... then I found not one, but TWO posts that I'd contributed already. That was a bit startling
What qualifies as extravagant? Also, we got by for years without the use of Cellphones as well or the need to be in constant contact with people by voice or by internet!!!
It's probably extremely rare that you'd need to get facebook on your phone or have to look something up online. So should they not include data on phones?
The thing is, there IS a use and it's a technology advancement.
There are PLENTY of reasons to use GPS... Is it required to survive? Not often, but then again, neither is the phone. I could call someone and find out directions from the metro to my destination, or I can just use my GPS. Different tech, same necessity, same results.
Agreed. It should be an option. If you'd rather use a regular map or call people for your directions you can feel free to do that. It's not going to hurt you.
Should you be in a situation where you do happen to need (use your imagination) GPS, you'll have it.
What's really the point of this thread?
I mean, we don't really need cell phones as landlines and public phones are pretty much everywhere. I don't see the point of a word processing application as typewriters have been doing a bang up job for years. What's really the point of maps? I mean, there are street signs everywhere. This just doesn't make any sense, have you never been to a new city, or been unclear about an address or directions?
I mean, we don't really need cell phones as landlines and public phones are pretty much everywhere. I don't see the point of a word processing application as typewriters have been doing a bang up job for years. What's really the point of maps? I mean, there are street signs everywhere. This just doesn't make any sense, have you never been to a new city, or been unclear about an address or directions?
Close. Civilian receivers work off the C/A code while military receivers can also receive the P(Y) code
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals