Any Vegetarians/Vegans?

[zarusoba]

Food ethics: it won't go away

I have an ethically and environmentally driven diet. I use a lot of macrobiotic ideas. I minimise animal products and when I do buy them, they are organically produced. I don't know about the organic certification in other countries, but in Australia it guarantees that the the animal had as good a life as possible before it was humanely killed.

I also refrain from eating endangered or threatened species of fish.

Because Australia is suffering from drought, a lot of people are calling for an end to the production of water-intensive crops such as rice. My response is that animal production is much more water-intensive. A very inefficient means of feeding humans.

As a species, we do need to realise that it's not all about us. It's our anthropocentric view that is ruining the Earth's ecosystems. An Earth without birds and insects would collapse very quickly. An Earth without humans would recover very quickly.

I don't think the idea of a vegetarian world is realistic at this point in time, but governments have a responsibility to promote the reduction of meat consumption. This could be done by promoting organic animal farming. Less meat would be sold at a higher cost, resulting in a win-win-win-win situation. (For animals, the environment, farmers and consumers.)

In Australia, the current recommendation for red meat is 800 grams per week. Health-wise, that may be OK according to the studies that they've done. But what happens when everyone on the planet starts eating that amount of red meat per week? It's just not sustainable.

 

[mpw]

I've been a veggie for nearly a year, not for any real reason though, just sort of fell into it. I used to like getting a steak at restaurants, but now like nothing better than eating vegetarian out. i can recommend a great place in W12, here.

EDIT: Sorry I got the location slightly wrong, I've actually been enjoying eating out in the 'Bush.

 

[dops7107]

Not entirely sure why liking pizza stops you being veggie? Surely pizzas are one of the easiest things to make veggie so long as you get non-rennet cheese?

I was talking about veganism. No mozzarella allowed!

Dead turkeys aren't usually happy, especially when they're being eaten.

True, but a dead turkey is not an unhappy turkey, either. The manner of death and quality of life up to that point are what is important, and clearly it is not possible to eat a turkey without killing it. I can live with being responsible for the death of one turkey once a year.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

I could never be vegetarian I love chicken/turkey too much! I'm not really a fan of red meat though

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I love meat, beef especially. And lamb...one of my housemates is from New Zealand, and makes some killer meat pies. Mmmmmm....

I'm not averse to eating vegetarian meals though...I came up with a decent chickpea/artichoke bake the other day, very filling! But I've always found vegetarian/vegan meat substitutes (fake burger patties/sausages/lunchmeats) fairly pointless - they are nothing like the originals in terms of taste or texture. But that's merely personal opinion.

 

[synth3tik]

the old man and myself like to do unusual thanksgiving diners. After all thanksgiving is a really stupid holiday. This year it will be Kung Po shrimp.

I have been a vegetarian for about 13 years now. Recently started eating sea creeps, but nothing beyond that. Main reasoning is that I do not like the taste. Also working on the grandparents farm durning harvest turned me away. It all started when I was dating this girl that was a vegetarian. She was also an absolutely fantastic cook and before I knew it 3 years had gone by that I was not consuming dead flesh.

 

[imac/cheese]

I have always wanted to become a vegetarian but I have never made the leap. I greatly enjoy turkey sandwiches and a good burger, but I have been considering trying to make this transition.

We do not cook any meat in our house, except the occasional can of soup or frozen pasta bag that contains meat.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

After all thanksgiving is a really stupid holiday.

It's the only one that hasn't yet been commercialized beyond all recognition.

 

[Sirus The Virus]

I tried making my own vege burgers once and it wasn't pretty. what is your recipe?

I can't remember, I have it somewhere! Sorry! I know it involved squash, ha!

 

[adrianblaine]

I tried making my own vege burgers once and it wasn't pretty. what is your recipe?

My family has a recipe, but it involves eggs...

Take one can of Worthington Vege-Burger

Mix with:

• two handfuls of quick oats
• 4 eggs (This is an estimate, it has been awhile since I made it)
• half an onion chopped finely
• a pinch of salt
• garlic powder (I like garlic, so I use a lot)
• Worcestershire Sauce (Not truly vegetarian... I don't know if you can get it without anchovies in it. We used it even though we were vegetarian. You might be able to substitute it with another sauce like soy sauce)

Mix all together well and spoon balls of the mixture into a frying pan with oil (I use olive oil) and flatten them into patties. The trick is to leave them on just long enough for the egg to be able to hold the patty together when you turn it over, but not too long or you'll severely burn it. If flipped too soon it falls into a million little pieces. If you do it too late, you'll end up with a hard burned patty. What I've done that seems to work the best is to cook it at a lower temp for longer.

Experimentation is crucial. The first few times I tried making them, it turned out to be a disaster. You'll learn tricks along the way and which flavors you like. The only ingrediants necessary is the vege-burger, eggs, and quick oats. Everything else is just to add flavor.

 

[rdowns]

I received this in an email newsletter this morning. Should make the heads of the vegans/vegetarians explode.

What are you having for Thanksgiving Dinner this Thursday?

This past Saturday, I held an early Thanksgiving Dinner for a few friends.

I wanted to do something fun and interesting, so this year I decided to fix a Turducken for dinner.

"What's the heck is a Turducken?" you say?

Well put it this way, your vegetarian, animal-rights friends are not gonna like it.

A Turducken is a turkey, stuffed with a duck, that's been stuffed with a chicken!

 

[bartelby]

I received this in an email newsletter this morning. Should make the heads of the vegans/vegetarians explode.

Sounds awesome!!!

 

[Virgil-TB2]

balance...

Vegan for 5 years. Maybe longer? I can't remember if I started in my 20s or not. My reasons are mostly biological after a careful study of our anatomy, ...

Just to present the other side of the equation ...

While being a Vegetarian of any stripe makes you somewhat healthier than the general population, being a Vegan Vegetarian is something else again.

It is a very difficult diet to maintain health on without constant vigilance and most Vegans become vegans for moral/ethical reasons, not for health reasons. Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people mostly because it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline. Like many other "extreme" diets, it is certainly not something to be entered into lightly.

Arguably, the "natural" diet of humans is the same as all other primates, which is of course what we are. It's comprised of large amounts of raw vegetable matter, nuts, berries etc. but also small amounts of low-grade animal protein like bugs, birds and small animals of various kinds. This is "natural" and don't let anyone tell you that it's not because they simply don't know what they are talking about.

There is not much sense in the ethical arguments for vegetarianism in general either (not eating something "with a face"), as all vegetables contain small amounts of animal proteins and by-products (bugs, feces, etc.) and it is impossible to live at all, without simultaneously killing thousands of our fellow earth creatures every single day. Looked at this way, the argument for not eating animals is really just a matter of scale. In other words, we don't eat "big" animals or "smart" animals or "thinking" animals, but we all eat animals or cause other animals to be destroyed by virtue of our own animalistic requirements for food and shelter. There is no escape from this situation short of becoming robots.

- Do you feel better not eating the one big cow but killing millions of mites, ants, microbes, diatoms etc. each day? Why would you?

- What's better? Drinking the cows milk (which has trace amounts of puss and blood in it), or eating raw vegetables (which have trace amounts of bugs and feces)?

 

[aristobrat]

Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people

Huh? Is this your opinion, or are your citing a fact and not presenting its source?

it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline.

My experience with the vegan "regime" was that many of the staples of my diet (tofu, soymilk, seitan) were fortified with vitamins and other nutrients, requiring very little "discipline" on my part to maintain my health.

 

[it5five]

The other thing I don't like about vegetarians, and especially vegans, is that they tend to have a huge superiority complex. Vegans look down upon lacto-ovo-vegetarians who in turn look down upon pisco-vegetarians.

Don't lump us all together. I don't care what the people around me eat.

The topic of my diet doesn't come up unless I am directly asked or offered a meat dish.

 

[SkyBell]

So is beef, pork, fish, lamb, turkey, veal, duck, rabbit, deer, buffalo, kangaroo, snake, horse, and even pigeon.

But otherwise, I'd definitely consider it. *thumbs up*

I can deal without everything except chicken. My favorite fast food restaurant is Chick-fil-a. Mmmmm I'm drooling now.

 

[Abstract]

....but now like nothing better than eating vegetarian out.
...(snip)...

EDIT: Sorry I got the location slightly wrong, I've actually been enjoying eating out in the 'Bush.

Nothing to really contribute. I just wanted to say that I took everything that mpw said in his post as some sort of sexual remark.

 

[bartelby]

Don't lump us all together. I don't care what the people around me eat.

The topic of my diet doesn't come up unless I am directly asked or offered a meat dish.

Hence the "tend to" bit.
In my experience the non militant vegan is very much the minority. Most of the time they use information from PETA, ALF and other such organisations to prove points. Yet when I use information from the British Meat Education Service I get accused of using biased sources!

Nothing to really contribute. I just wanted to say that I took everything that mpw said in his post as some sort of sexual remark.

No, you don't say!
</sarcasm>

 

[samuraikiss]

I was a happy vegetarian in a family of disgruntled omnivores... and then I came to college. Our college cafeteria (the only one) offers only three vegetarian/vegan dishes per day, and every single one looks like pig slop! I would have starved, so I had to start eating meat. I cannot wait to graduate and go vegetarian again!

 

[.Andy]

Hence the "tend to" bit.
In my experience the non militant vegan is very much the minority. Most of the time they use information from PETA, ALF and other such organisations to prove points. Yet when I use information from the British Meat Education Service I get accused of using biased sources!

That's a wonderful anecdote.

 

[Schnebar]

I have been a vegetarian for like 13 years and I am 18 now.

I became one because for some reason every time I try to eat meat I throw up. I think it is the texture of the gooeyness.

I can eat pepperoni and really crispy bacon because it is not the same texture.

I guess it is good for me not eating much meat even-though I am really skinny. I will probably grow out of it in a few years and might start eating a little more meat but I will never eat like horse or veil.

Just stick to pigs, cows and chickens.

 

[aureiden]

I have been a vegetarian for like 13 years and I am 18 now.

I became one because for some reason every time I try to eat meat I throw up. I think it is the texture of the gooeyness.

I can eat pepperoni and really crispy bacon because it is not the same texture.

I guess it is good for me not eating much meat even-though I am really skinny. I will probably grow out of it in a few years and might start eating a little more meat but I will never eat like horse or veil.

Just stick to pigs, cows and chickens.

haha, it's so funny how you say "pigs, cows and chickens" as opposed to "pork, beef and chicken," especially because you're vegetarian....

by the way, i'm not and could never be a vegetarian or vegan.

 

[sorryiwasdreami]

It's amusing that every time a vegetarian thread comes up it turns into a wild debate.

 

[bartelby]

It's amusing that every time a vegetarian thread comes up it turns into a wild debate.

Veggies/vegans vs. meat eaters is just the same as:

PC vs. Mac
Cats vs. Dogs
Dark vs. Light

 

[Iscariot]

Just to present the other side of the equation ...

While being a Vegetarian of any stripe makes you somewhat healthier than the general population, being a Vegan Vegetarian is something else again.

It is a very difficult diet to maintain health on without constant vigilance and most Vegans become vegans for moral/ethical reasons, not for health reasons. Large numbers of Vegans are sickly, unhealthy people mostly because it takes constant vigilance and knowledge to maintain your health under a Vegan regime and the average person does not have the dicipline. Like many other "extreme" diets, it is certainly not something to be entered into lightly.

Data, please?

Arguably, the "natural" diet of humans is the same as all other primates, which is of course what we are. It's comprised of large amounts of raw vegetable matter, nuts, berries etc. but also small amounts of low-grade animal protein like bugs, birds and small animals of various kinds. This is "natural" and don't let anyone tell you that it's not because they simply don't know what they are talking about.

yup.

There is not much sense in the ethical arguments for vegetarianism in general either (not eating something "with a face"), as all vegetables contain small amounts of animal proteins and by-products (bugs, feces, etc.) and it is impossible to live at all, without simultaneously killing thousands of our fellow earth creatures every single day. Looked at this way, the argument for not eating animals is really just a matter of scale. In other words, we don't eat "big" animals or "smart" animals or "thinking" animals, but we all eat animals or cause other animals to be destroyed by virtue of our own animalistic requirements for food and shelter. There is no escape from this situation short of becoming robots.

Incorrect. The "higher" on the food chain you eat, the more resources it takes to produce what you consume. You may not be able to eliminate killing to survive, but you are able to reduce and minimize your impact. While "guiltless" is impossible to achieve, eating vegetarian or vegan reduces your environmental impact, and the volume of resources necessary to ensure your survival. You directly reduce the "unethical" damage you cause, and you indirectly increase the survival of organisms lower on the food chain by increases the resources available to them.

- Do you feel better not eating the one big cow but killing millions of mites, ants, microbes, diatoms etc. each day? Why would you?

I feel better knowing that I have minimized the amount of destruction I cause to survive as reasonably as I can (although it's not an ethical question for me anyways).

- What's better? Drinking the cows milk (which has trace amounts of puss and blood in it), or eating raw vegetables (which have trace amounts of bugs and feces)?

What's better, drinking the baby formula for an animal that grows up to be hundreds of pounds, or eating a food item that you yourself have described as part of our "natural" diet? Is this is a trick question?