Anyone else not that excited about Tiger?

Discussion in 'macOS' started by wowoah, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. wowoah macrumors regular

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    #1
    Sorry to be a spoil-sport, but it seems like everyone's all amped about Tiger and I'm not, at least not yet. Spotlight seems cool, but not cool enough to be worth the money, and Quicksilver works great for me. Dashboard doesn't do anything that Konfab can't, and the widgets look frankly a bit cheesy and Playskool-ish. Plus, I'm willing to be none of the Dashboard widgets will play nice with Entourage, which is my PIM of choice. I'd be happy to switch to iCal/Address Book, but Apple needs to make some seriously big steps to take them from being lame toys to real productivity apps.

    I remember being pretty psyched about Panther: the faster interface, Expose, all that great stuff. I'd love to get excited about Tiger -- maybe someone can give me some good reasons?
     
  2. AngeredTree macrumors member

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    #2
    I do hope people keep in mind that that was NOT the final system...and just because the widgets we saw looked kinda cheesy doesn't mean there won't be better widgets out there.

    It looks to me like Dashboard has many advantages over Konfab in the way widgets are coded and can be implemented for one...

    Who knows what else is in store? Sofar, perhaps, it doesnt seem to warrant 129$, but who knows what'll happen in a few months...
     
  3. MikeLaRiviere macrumors regular

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    May 25, 2004
    #3
    I Can't Wait

    Not to sound like an Apple poster-boy, but I really can't wait for Tiger. The feature I most look forward to is Dashboard. Over the past few weeks at work doing web design, I've had occasion to use a Dashboard calculator and notepad numerous times a day. I think it'll really make work faster. Core Image has the potential to be very cool, but obviously it's not a necessary function to the OS. Smart Folders in the Finder will also be pretty interesting, if Apple implements the technology well. What I most hope for, though, is the speed boost. And I really hope there is a speed boost, both to the GUI and to the OS on the whole.

    I find there to be a massive perceived speed boost in 10.3 from 10.2, to the point where I find 10.2 to be unusable. I'm hoping we see the same from 10.4. But otherwise, I am greatly looking forward to Dashboard. It's going to make many things at work a lot easier and far less time-consuming.

    Mike LaRiviere
     
  4. Dr. Dastardly macrumors 65816

    Dr. Dastardly

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    #4
    If spotlight acts the way they say it does, I will be VERY excited.
     
  5. AppleMatt macrumors 68000

    AppleMatt

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    #5
    I don't know...it's interesting.

    I think the main problem is that this time last year Panther was at a much more developed stage, there were the features to get excited about and there was the polish to go along with it. You walked away from WWDC excited because the build in your hands was pretty useable, and there was a massive speed boost to go along with it.
    Not only that, but there were a heck of a lot of visual "ohh ahh" additions, so far all I've seen one new effect in Tiger I think (excluding Dashboard, which I think we all could have guessed).

    At the moment, only a few of the new features in Tiger have direct benefits to me, but the OS is too immature for everyday use. In addition, there's no speed boost yet (apart from a minor one for G5 users), and in some cases a degradation in speed (break some eggs to make an omelette).

    I think as time goes on and applications that utilise all the "under the hood" changes in Tiger appear, we'll all have something to get excited about and will be able to convince ourselves spending a bit more cash is worth it.

    AppleMatt
     
  6. Duff-Man macrumors 68030

    Duff-Man

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    #6
    Duff-Man says....I think 10.4 will really shine. While it may not show off tons of new GUI bells and whistles I think all the work they are doing under the hood is what will make it worthwhile. More speed. There's enough of the eye-candy stuff already (which does not mean there is never any room for improvement)....oh yeah!
     
  7. Seanb23 macrumors member

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    Jul 6, 2004
    #7
    I for one would be really excited if Apple took some of the money in the ol' warchest and invested it in HARDWARE R&D. Just about everybody who uses 10.3 loves it...many windoze people are contemplating switching...they are preaching to the choir at this point, you know ?

    How about getting a fast processor into the powerbooks to compete with the M chips and AMDs ? Can you imagine what Apple's market share would look like if they pulled that off ? We all know it's gonna be forever and a day at this point before we see G5s in 'em...so how about taking a cue from the competition and developing an ultra-fast laptop line of CPUs, perhaps off of the G4 model ?

    THAT would excite me.
     
  8. DrGruv1 macrumors regular

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  9. Krizoitz macrumors 6502a

    Krizoitz

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    #9
    Spotlight + Dashboard = me excited. Not to mention core video, 64-bit addressing, and the other under the hood improvements.
     
  10. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #10
    wowoah

    We've already hit this subject more than once. I wish I had a dime for every "I don't see anything special in Tiger" threads.

    Well let's give you the crib notes version.

    Quicksilver is nice but it won't pull out metadata in your files to the specificity that Spotlight will. Spotlight indexes on the fly. Modify a file Spotlight has tracked that modification. Quicksilver can add this via the Spotlight API but you're vastly confused if you think QS can do what Spotlight can.

    Dashboard- Nicer than Konfab to me but it's not what has me jazzed about Tiger. Even though you're wrong. Dashboard creation is "MUCH" more flexible than Konfab widgets.

    Automator is much cooler than what was shown at WWDC. Since then we've found that it doesn't just use Applescript but can use Shell Scripts and any languages or frameworks supported by xcode. Once you save scripts they show in in the menu of the app using the script. You launch the script and it works without Automator even needing to be open. This was shown live in the WWDC video. That is "Services" on steroids people.

    iChat AV is an excellent way to showcase the power of the new AVC codec

    Core Image/Video- Taking something that takes 10 seconds and making it real-time should get anyones attention.

    .Mac sync built in. Now any developer can easily write sync features into their apps and with tiger they know it'll be there because it's systemwide in the OS now. Perfect for those that have laptops and desktops.

    Spotlight- is just huge. I really have to laugh when I hear people bring up QS or Launch Bar. Those are studebakers compared to the ferrari that Spotlight is. I guess many people will just have to use it to fully grok what's going on.

    Right now Tiger PR is for developers. There's no need in going into anymore detail because if you're not a developer you won't understand the ramificatios of new Apple tech in Tiger.

    Suffice it to say you "will" want Tiger when it comes out in 6-9 months. You haven't even seen the %90 of the features of Tiger yet. By the time it ships it'll likely contain Quicktime 7, OpenGL 2.0 and bunches of little features and fixes that make you smile.

    Remember before people started using Panther they were NOT enthused. Panther had one visible feature and that was Expose and until people actually used Expose they thought it was useless...just like Dashboard. ;)
     
  11. ColoJohnBoy macrumors 65816

    ColoJohnBoy

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    #11
    With what we've seen of it so far, I can understand not being too terribly excited about it. Excepting all the "under the hood" features, I can't say I would use any of them; I don't search all that often for anything so Spotlight isn't all that useful, and after trying Konfabulator, I was more annoyed than impressed (Though I imagine Apple will have improved it greatly. I don't doubt I'll end up buying it. As a matter of fact, I'll probably wait in line for whatever party they'll have. But as of now, I'm not wetting myself in anticipation.
     
  12. Bluefusion macrumors 6502

    Bluefusion

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    #12
    There are a few damn good reasons :)

    1) You really need to take a step back and try Apple's PIM system again before you declare it inferior; I myself have switched from Entourage to the Apple way back and forth so many times I've lost count (my friends can attest to that). What I've found, and it sounds unbelievable but it really is true, is that there is NO major feature in Entourage that is not in, or being produced for, Apple's PIM programs. The last link in the chain is Smart Mailboxes, which Tiger is bringing--equivalent of the Custom View feature in Entourage. Also HTML mail support. But iCal, as tacky as I've found it for years, does everything I do in Entourage-- Mail is simply brilliant, and Address Book's beautiful simplicity is a welcome change. Anyway, just my opinion, but you really should try it again and see if you can't do everything you need to with just as much efficiency as with Entourage (thereby increasing the use of Dashboard, for one).

    2) Dashboard is important only in that it's official; being part of the OS means a lot more third-party development will happen for it. Look at how Services have taken off, etc.

    3) I agree with most of what everyone here says; Spotlight is poised to completely change the way we use computers, in a way that will make every OS before this one (with the exception of BeOS ;) ) look ancient and obsolete. Spotlight is as big a development as the launch of OS X, seriously; the FINDER IS DEAD. Think about that for a second. THE FINDER IS DEAD. This thing is going to blow us all away; I know that.

    Just wait and see :) We've got a lot of time left before we see any real features!
     
  13. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #13
    When did they release info about Expose? If I remember right they kept that baby secret until clost to the actual release to really drum up interest. If I am remembering this right, I would think there is some big thing Apple is keeping under wraps until close to release of Tiger. Just a thought...anybody remember? Of coure some of you do, so let me know if I am right?!?! :D
     
  14. Bluefusion macrumors 6502

    Bluefusion

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    #14
    At WWDC, where Panther was first announced, Steve Jobs demonstrated Exposé heavily, in slow motion, multiple times :)

    It was not thoroughly explained in rumors until the official "premier", (how would you explain it, exactly?) however it was definitely explained by Apple on their website from WWDC until Panther shipped in the Fall.
     
  15. wPod macrumors 68000

    wPod

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    #15
    i agree i dont see much cool about tiger right now. but, i imagine by the time it comes out more things will be announced and it will look much cooler! the biggest thing so far seems to be the 65bit ness. . . . but that does me no good with a P4 PB :-/ maybe the P5 PBs will be announced around the time tiger is released.

    and what is so cool about spotlight? i cant remeber the last time ive ever searched for something on my computer. i keep everything neatly organized in my home folder and in my dock.

    what would be really cool is an expose type of thing that has four (or some number greater than one) screens. like a number of unix guis. but i have actually enjoyed expose a lot and often dont feel like i need more than one desktop b/c of it. im still looking forward to something cool, cause im sure i will be in line at the apple store hours in advance of the tiger release just as i was for panther! (i hope tiger turns out that good!!!)

    who else things steve jobs needs to drive a GTO to the WWDC right before tiger is released?!
     
  16. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #16
    Honestly it doesn't sound like you even need a computer. I don't know of many people that don't search for stuff on their computers. The thing you need to ask yourself is "what obstacles to my success does OSX currently not surmount"

    You will then get your answer. There are those that look at Spotlight as "just a search tool" and those that realize how deep it really goes.


    I'm not trying to sound like a prick but it's just important to realize that Spotlight isn't a seach. Spotlight is an API that the new Tiger seach utilizes. Simply calling it a seach then leads to the confusion we have with people saying "Oh I already have Launch Bar or Quicksilver" . That's not a fair comparson. Spotlight is a metadata engine API. With it I can organize data the way I want.



    Scenario
    "I want to find all the emails with attachements from Jane Doe"

    Simply create a smart folder in mail that puts all of Jane Does messages over 75k in this folder. Boom done.

    Scenario

    "I want a list of all files over 100MB for backup purposes"

    Smart folder. File size = greater than 100MB. Boom done.

    Folks. Quicksilver and Launch Bar don't do this(yet). Spotlight is not search, it merely enables eficient searching among other things.

    I just find it odd that people that hang out macrumors.com and trade experiences and whatever wouldn't be excited about a nextgen OS release. I mean you all don't really think Tiger is shipping with todays version of iCal, Addressbook, mail etc do you? Apple will break out new versions at the last minute. There's no need to show their hand right now because none of those apps require new updated APIs. That won't stop iCal 2 or mail from becoming "must have" upgrades.
     
  17. jane doe macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Like someone already said, Keep in mind that this build that everyone is talking about is a VERY early build. Alot of the features are not enabled in this build. The reason for this build is to show the developers the "under the hood" changes that they need to work around. This was not intended to get consumers excited. That will surely come later.
     
  18. seamuskrat macrumors 6502a

    seamuskrat

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    #18
    I think its progress. I for one, will shell out 129 for it.
    The search features, and enhancements to graphics are enough for me. All the rest is a bonus.
    I did not think Panther was much, but now when I go back to a Jag machine, I immediately miss Panther. I am sure Tiger will be the same.
    Progress is good. The neat thing is that if you disagree with the cost, then you can choose not to upgrade. But if its really still months away, I am sure many more features will make it into the final revision.
     
  19. TimJ macrumors newbie

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    Jul 30, 2004
    #19
    I suppose spotlight's got to be good. How many times have you pulled your hair out trying to find an interesting snippet you saved somewhere about 10 months previous. My concern is that not all developers will build it into their applications. Chances are that the file you want will be one you saved from an app that doesn't support it.......

    64 bit has to be good too. I bought a dual G5 about two months ago and saw a big speed increase over my dual G4 (450mhz). As software starts to come through that is 64 bit aware then we should get another great speed bump running on the same hardware. Personally I'm quite excited about that.

    The dashboard I can take or leave personally - I don't exactly thrill to stock market tickers, multi-timezone clocks etc etc, but I'm open to it. The Konfabulator issue is a bit unfortunate though, and it leaves a slightly sour taste.

    Core Image & Video look like incredible innovations. I say that as a designer and animator so I appreciate my interest is probably niche. Being able to do all those fx in real time is amazing, but secondly having them implemented at the OS level means that developers will be able to easily implement them their applications - surely that makes the platform more attractive to some developers(?) and gives us more wizz-bang capabilities. As Steve said at the keynote, if Adobe can be persuaded to implement them in Photoshop, AfterEffects etc, then mac users get an immediate speed and flexibiltity gain over competing platforms. My worry here would be that Adobe will want to keep the Mac & PC versions of software on a par with one another - effectively ignoring the technology completely. For instance, what would happen if you took a Photoshop file (say) which used live Core Image FX to a PC which didn't have Core Image support? Persumably Adobe would have to build some kind of parallel support into the PC version of the app to maintain inter-platform compatibility, and they may not want to have to do that.

    Well inspite of all that I propose a toast to Tiger, and to more good things in the future.
     
  20. paulypants macrumors 6502a

    paulypants

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  21. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

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    #21
    I'm interested in all the under-the-covers improvements but could care less about most visual improvements until there is a theme manager.

    If I use Dashboard as much as I use Exposé, they should not have bothered.

    Core Video and having OpenAL built-in will be great and hopefully, it will add to the great effects that can be done with games, along with improvements in OpenGL.

    Any overall improvements in SMP efficiency will be welcome, as SMP is a pig still. General improvements in the speed of the system are welcome, as well.

    Spotlight will be better than great. Having used BeOS, it was always nice to be able to find things quickly and to be able to save those queries for use later.
     
  22. BrianKonarsMac macrumors 65816

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    #22
    apple needs to allow themes. they have lost track of any coherency to the gui, and basically do whatever they feel looks nice. if they are going to put konfabulator out of business, might as well take shapeshifter too. at least change the gui to that of the professional apps, or give an option, it would look so much nicer, i'd pay $70 (edu pricing) for that! The only thing I'm excited about in 10.4 at the moment is Automator (or whatever it ends up being called).

    The current OS X gui is horrendous, I'm forced to use Shape Shifter. Is everyone else really not that bugged by it?
     
  23. QCassidy352 macrumors G3

    QCassidy352

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    #23
    I'm not that excited about it either, but I'm certainly open to the possibility that I'm underestimating it.
     
  24. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #24
    Let me illustrate how difficult it is to answer a thread like this.

    "Tiger is not generating excitement in some users"

    But the only problem is the users cannot tell us just what they are expecting featurewise that will generate this excitement. We're really not getting an analytical reason why Tiger is deficient in their eyes. We're merely getting a "meh, I don't see the big deal" rather than a "Tiger doesn't excitement me because it's missing these features....."

    A computer is a tool. I don't expect Black and Decker to suddenly come up with some magical hammer that totally blows me away. I do expect to see constant evolution where possible to increase the effectiveness of that tool
     
  25. flyfish29 macrumors 68020

    flyfish29

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    #25
    so this was a mere months before release. Maybe they do have a few tricks up their sleeve. As far as the average comsumer goes, I hope so.
     

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