anyone reading the apple vs Samsung live blog at the verge?

Discussion in 'Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices' started by ChazUK, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. macrumors 603

    ChazUK

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Location:
    Essex (UK)
    #1
    Some fascinating post entries being written.

    I do wonder where this will end up.

    Link to the live blog here: http://live.theverge.com/live-apple-samsung-patent-trial-hearing/
     
  2. macrumors 68000

    MisterKeeks

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    Nov 15, 2012
    #2
    Doesn't look like Apple will get the $1 billion... Wonder how much the settlement will be reduced by.
     
  3. macrumors 68020

    LSUtigers03

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    Apr 9, 2008
    #3
    What were the actions of the jury foreman?
     
  4. macrumors 6502a

    TheHateMachine

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    Sep 18, 2012
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    #4
    I believe it has to do with his past affiliations with Seagate, how the original lawsuit from Seagate was brought forward by the partner of the firm that represented Samsung in this case, the failure to disclose the past relationships with Seagate and the Firm during juror selection and the supposedly incorrect outside information on Patents he brought to the other jurors during deliberation.

    I am not 100% sure this is everything but it is some of the things I have read and seen.
     
  5. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

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    Location:
    Scotland
    #5
    Seems to me that it is pretty dangerous to have judges second-guess juries, unless one of the jurors has violated the law. Not sure if that is what Samsung are implying in this case....
     
  6. macrumors 68040

    SlCKB0Y

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    Sydney, Australia
    #6
    It happens all the time.
     
  7. kdarling, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012

    macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #7
    It's partly to prevent jury emotions or ignorance from condemning a defendant without good reason.

    Because they are presumed to have greater legal knowledge than a jury, judges can overturn or set aside obviously bad guilty decisions (but not findings of innocence). For example, it can happen if the judge thinks the jury's decision could not possibly have been reached if they had followed the rules / evidence.

    In fact, just this past month, a judge threw out a jury's $150 million decision against RIM, because the evidence did not support the claim that RIM infringed on another company's patents.

    (This is one reason why many people believe that patents should not be judged by lay juries. The recent patent reform act acknowledges that somewhat, by allowing the choice of either the Russian roulette of a jury trial, or relying on an intense USPTO review. It also has limits on awards, making them more close to what a license would've cost.)

    In this particular Apple-Samsung case, one red flag is that the jury awarded like ten times the amount that even Apple's own experts had valued their patents at. (Punishment or "sending a signal" was not the jury's job, despite what the foreman said in interview. That's up to the judge after the trial.)
     
  8. kevinone, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013

    macrumors newbie

    kevinone

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    #8
    Apple's patents are so valuable or just their game with huge rewards ^^.
     
  9. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

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    Location:
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    #9
    Judges are just as emotional as jurors. The whole point of the jury system is to make it less prone to the whims of one individual. I could see justification for a judge to step in when a jury has been tainted, but simply disagreeing with the jury shouldn't be grounds for an appeal. No wonder legal cases take forever to resolve.
     
  10. macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    #10
    Disagreeing with a jury isn't the only grounds. Disagreeing with a verdict is why people bring appeals, but you have to demonstrate cause if your appeal is to survive (or even be heard).
     
  11. macrumors 601

    ixodes

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Location:
    Pacific Coast, USA
    #11
    Very true.

    Furthermore, our legal system is broken, corrupt, and sadly... there's no fix in sight.
     
  12. macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #12
    Yes, and the point of having a trained judge preside is to make sure that both the trial and the jury's verdict are legally accomplished.

    It's not about "disagreeing with the jury" decision.

    It's about the judge determining that the jury clearly didn't follow the rules that they were given for finding infringement or damages etc. In other words, the jury's verdict wasn't legally sound.
     
  13. macrumors 68020

    sviato

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    #13
    Interesting read, looking forward to seeing the result
     
  14. macrumors 68000

    VulchR

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    #14
    The judge should have never let the jury come to the point of a verdict if they thought anything was unsound. Once the verdict is delivered it should be respected - if there was something wrong before the point of jury deliberation, the judge should have stopped the trial. Quite apart from anything, one can never confirm post-hoc whether jurors have followed instructions or not (how do we know that the jurors comments after the trial weren't due to bribes by Samsung (or Apple for that matter). Having a judge review the verdict of a jury because they think that the jury 'didn't follow instructions' is an amazingly arrogant move. Jury by one's peers was meant to prevent a single person from having too much power, and having judges review jurors' verdicts undermines checks and balances (and the 6th amendment) IMO.
     
  15. kdarling, Dec 9, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012

    macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #15
    Right, if there are any mistakes before the jury gets the case, a judge can declare a mistrial.

    Sometimes it's really easy to tell if the jurors followed instructions or not.

    In this case the jurors were told to award Apple with the value for patents they thought Samsung infringed. For example, to guide them, Apple said they thought their bounceback patent was worth about $2 per unit. So the jury should've awarded that amount or less (much less, to tell the truth).

    Instead, it sure looks like they decided to "punish Samsung" by going with an amount that was much more than what Apple themselves had said the patents were worth... even though punishing was NOT their job. At all. Stuff like that, where the jury clearly might not have followed the rules, are why Koh is scrutinizing the jury's results.

    Make more sense now? In this case, it's not so much about the jury decision... Samsung still infringed... but what they did with that decision.

    I hear ya, but at the same time, it's protection for the defendant. Remember, a judge cannot change a not-guilty verdict to guilty. The judge can only take an obviously poorly obtained guilty verdict and reduce or remove it.
     
  16. macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    #16
    $2 x how many units? :confused:
     
  17. macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
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    #17
    I'll have to look up which ones were determined to infringe. I think a legal website figured out that only $150 million could be accounted for if the jury actually followed instructions for the utility patents.

    Supposedly the jury gave Apple 50% royalties on some Samsung devices, which is of course ridiculous. See this article:

     

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