Anyone with a 1.6GHz G5 and a Radeon 9800?

Discussion in 'Games' started by oingoboingo, Jul 25, 2004.

  1. oingoboingo macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #1
    With Doom III just around the corner, I'm sure a lot of us are thinking of ways to upgrade our systems to get the most out of the game. I currently have a 1.6GHz PowerMac G5, with the OEM 64MB Radeon 9600 Pro graphics card. The 64MB Radeon 9600 Pro handles most games OK, but I'm thinking the 128MB or 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro would handle them better :). My question is, are there any 1.6GHz G5 owners out there who have a Radeon 9800 Pro in their system? I'm looking for some benchmarks and performance impressions on how 9800 performs in the bottom-end 1.6GHz G5. I know there are benchmarks out there for the higher-end G5s and the Radeon 9800, but I want to be sure that the single 1.6GHz G5 can effectively supply the Radeon 9800 with enough data to make the upgrade worthwhile (ie: I want to make sure a single 1.6GHz G5 won't be the bottleneck).

    That said, would anyone be interested in buying the 64MB Radeon 9600 Pro from my G5 if I did eventually upgrade?
     
  2. jsw Moderator emeritus

    jsw

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    #2
    I can't give you benchmarks, but I can't believe that a 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro wouldn't completely blow away the 9600 Pro, regardless of the system, esp. at higher resolutions.
     
  3. cantthinkofone macrumors 65816

    cantthinkofone

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    #3
    any of you know where i can get a new card? this 5200 i have right now is killing my gaming performance of my comp.
     
  4. oingoboingo thread starter macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #4
    There are people on eBay selling PC Radeon 9800 cards which have been reflashed with a Mac compatible ROM. Two eBay usernames which immediately come to mind are lonestarmac and amacapart. They are asking around US $260 for a re-flashed 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro which (they claim) are compatible with either G4 or G5 systems.

    The 'official' 128MB ATI Radeon 9800 Mac Edition and 256MB ATI Radeon 9800 Mac Special Edition cards are available from Other World Computing (http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=67&Title=Video Cards&Template=). The 128MB version is US $349.99, and the 256MB version is $379.99. The cheaper G4/G5 compatible 128MB version is only AGP2x/AGP4x, requires an additional Molex power connector to be used, and has only one digital output (DVI), plus VGA and S-Video. The more expensive 256MB G5-only Special Edition card is true AGP 8x, does not require an extra power connector, and has ADC and a DVI outputs.

    I'm still deciding if I want to save some money but take more of a risk with a re-flashed PC card off eBay, or spend an extra US $100 and buy the official ATI Mac card.

    Compared to the GeForce 5200 FX card that you have currently, any of the GeForce 4 Ti, Radeon 9600 Pro, Radeon 9600 XT, Radeon 9800 Mac Edition or Radeon 9800 Special Edition will be a massive upgrade. Take a look at benchmark sites like www.xlr8yourmac.com and www.barefeats.com. An older Radeon 8500 may even be faster than the FX 5200, but you'd have to check that. Of course the Radeon 9600 series aren't available via retail, but you might be able to find someone selling theirs when they upgrade their G5, or a re-flashed PC one.
     
  5. ZildjianKX macrumors 68000

    ZildjianKX

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    #5

    You should get approximately twice the framerates if you upgrade from a Radeon 9600 Pro to any Radeon 9800 Pro.
     
  6. Rezet macrumors 6502a

    Rezet

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    #6
    probably won't. i had every single video card they have for mac.
    9800 value is horrible. its only slightly better than 9600 bu price sky rockets. 9800 isnt affected by the resolution as much as 9600, thats the only plus side. other than that, don't expect more than 20% increase in fps.
     
  7. Jigglelicious macrumors 6502

    Jigglelicious

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    #7

    Sorry, but the Radeon 9800 Pro is a great card, and possibly the best bang for your buck right now. Where are you getting this 20% number from? The 9800Pro is nearly twice the speed of the 9600Pro. Unless you're CPU limited, you should see a huge performance increase moving up to a 9800Pro.

    Of course, I wouldn't say all this without proof..
    http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html#unreal_tournament_2003
     
  8. invaLPsion macrumors 65816

    invaLPsion

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    #8
    Ebay has the best prices and a wide variety...

    If you want to buy safely, Buy.com sells the Radeon 9800 PRO MAC Edition at $299.99 plus I think there is a $15 coupon you can use which is provided by the site. So, $285 for a new Radeon 9800 PRO.
     
  9. osprey76 macrumors 6502

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    #9
    There is a good article at BareFeats.com about this. It looks like a 9800 would give a meaningful boost, in general. From what I've read Doom3 scales very nicely to run well on whatever hardware it is running on.
     
  10. Rezet macrumors 6502a

    Rezet

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    #10
    Dude, hah, pc benches mean exactly NOTHING in Mac world. I had 9600, 9800pro and 9800pro se (mac). And many others. You will notice good fps boost in DEATHMATCH but not in ONS or Assault for example. As a matter or fact, 9600 will be a dark horse and a winner in UT2004 ONS/Assault.
    Now before you say: "Rezet, you must be out of your friggin mind", listen to this. 9800 is not affected by the screen resolution/details much. In other words, you could be playing at 800x600 with low details and get ALMOST the same fps as 1900x1200high details. But 9800 power is NOT enough when it comes to UT2004 ONS/Assault (AS-Convoy with 20 ppls anyone?). So at times your frames drop into low teen! and there is nothing you can do about it. 9600 on the other hand is greatly affected by the details/resolution. SO when I set 800x600/med details on the same laggy map, 9600 actually produced higher fps rate than 9800 with the same settings.

    And frankly, when you see top of the line (at a time) card lag like that, you ask what exactly did you pay $350 upgrade for?

    P.S. 9800 Pro SE 256 has a problem with 10.3.4 - discs dont mount half the time)
     
  11. Jigglelicious macrumors 6502

    Jigglelicious

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    #11

    What you just described (same fps at 800x600 and 1600x1200) is the effect of being CPU limited. I'm not sure what G5 you're running on, but its not fast enough to push the card to its limits. But rest assured, PC or Mac, the Radeon 9800 *is* twice as fast as the 9600. You just need a powerful enough computer to show it.
     
  12. Rezet macrumors 6502a

    Rezet

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    #12

    Heh dude, I run this on the computer listed in my signature, on my 3ghz dell/ friends dell and friends HP.
    There is no CPU bottle neck at 800x600 res. 9600 behaves better on lower res than 9800. 9800 is not affected much by lower reolutions. If It was a bottle neck, 9600 wouldnt be pushing better fps on 800x600 ok.
     
  13. cantthinkofone macrumors 65816

    cantthinkofone

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    #13
    Thanks for all the input guys. one more question. do any of you know how to take advantage of dual-processors in halo,MOHAA,or ut2k3? i read on here that ut2k3 can use dual processors, but that no one could remember the command.
     
  14. ddtlm macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Rezet:

    Well regardless of what you observed, this contradicts what I've seen, what I've read on reviews, and it doesn't make any sense. I have to conclude that some other factor caused what you observed.

    There is nothing about a 9600 that is going to make it go faster than a 9800, ever. Not even the drivers should be significantly different.
     
  15. applekid macrumors 68020

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    #15
    UT2K3 automatically offloads the sound data to the second processor.

    MoH:AA has a console command: Check this thread. (The part about the Quake 3 engine)

    I don't remember reading anything that says Halo has SMP support, so I'm guessing it doesn't.
     
  16. Converted2Truth macrumors 6502a

    Converted2Truth

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    #16
    Dude, I think a 9800 will enable you to run doom on the mac. But it's not gonna be slick. And when i say slick, I mean high res, high fps. When i run halo on my dual 1.8, the CPU's are idle, but my system is choking. That's because of the 9600 pro. Now, some games have A.I. (like battlefield 1942) that just guzzle CPU... right now, we don't know how much CPU power Doom3 takes. So to say you won't have a 'bottleneck' with the 1.6 is impossible.

    Right now, I'd advise waiting. Because at the moment there are no high preforming cards available (at resonable prices). The 9800 like is oldschool... over 1yr old. Now translate that technology onto the mac, expect two year old preformance compared to pc of similar configuration. I think the 9800 is a large waste of money at this point. Wait(for ati's answer to the 6800): if you want decent preformance, or preorder the 6800 Ultra. But the 9800 will leave you wanting with cutting edge games.

    ...and for the antagonists... spare me the pointless debate! Maybe, just maybe, this specific system would run HL2 ok... because it's designed for the 9800, but doom3 is all about nvidia technology. There will be no unbridled fps in doom3 with such an old ati card.
     
  17. SwitchingSoon macrumors regular

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  18. jsulens macrumors member

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    #18
    all ati cards that end with SE are horrible. they are not the normal card, they are usually a lower end card that comes out after the next gerneration card comes out.
     
  19. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    #19
    I have a Dual 1.8 GHz G5 with Radeon 9800 OEM, and pre-ordered the 6800 :)
    So... I'll definitely will be testing Doom 3 on both the Radeon 9800 (OEM) and the GeForce 6800, as I'll be keeping my Radeon.
    If this game will support SMP and uses the Velocity engine, i hope Two G5's running at 1800 MHz won't be the bottleneck. Got 1.5 GB RAM, and will be checking if more is needed.... ;)

    One other thing:
    I wonder, as most PC gaming-benchmarking sites let the nVidia be preferred for OpenGL rendering and the Radeon (X800) preferred for Direct X, if the 6800 will be the "ultimate" grfx card for the G5 for some time..... Even if the X800 will be Mac-made, with Dual DVI etc., I wonder if it will be able to beat the 6800 in gaming.
    Funny I should consider this, as I've been an ATi-fan really. I have owned many different grfx cards in PowerMacs from the Sawtooth G4 500 to the FW 800 Dual G4 1.25 GHz, and always have chosen for ATi.
    Escpecially nVidia's GeForce 4 Ti 4600 card had some issues with the MOH games (Allied Assault, and Spearhead) which I played frequently, and since switching to the Radeon 9800 Pro Retail, I never wanted nVidia again.
    Also the MX series sucked, IMHO.
    But here we are: I pre-ordered the 6800 and can't wait to test it.... < drool >
     
  20. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #20
    thats not truw on the mac side of things se stands for special edition on the pc side it means somthing elce that i cant remember probably slow edition, the se is clocked higher than the pro and is an all together better card

    as for flashed cards i have to put a word in for amacapart i know many people that have bought from him and you would not be takeing a risk if a card fails he will replace it from a forum that he and i post in he has worked out how to flash a 9800xt and they should be put on ebay soon.
     
  21. oingoboingo thread starter macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #21
    Hector, thanks for the information. I was wondering how long it would take guys like amacapart to figure out how to flash the newer 9800 cards like the XT. I think I'll wait until Doom3 actually ships for the Mac, then take a look around and see what is available...maybe ATI will have released the X800 for the Mac by then, or flashed 9800XTs might be commonly available.
     
  22. oingoboingo thread starter macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #22
    Yes, I do wonder if the 1.6GHz G5 will have enough horsepower. From my own measurements, I think it performs about the same as an equivalently clocked Athlon XP chip, so the closest clocked Athlon XP is something like an Athlon XP 2000+ (running at close to 1.6GHz)...which is to say that it is sitting relatively close to the bottom rung of the recommended CPU specs for Doom3. Have to wait and see.
     
  23. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #23
    the pc minimum specs are out now 1.5Ghz prosessor a 8500 or a geforce 3, and 384MB ram

    your g5 will run it but how fast is anyones guess.
     
  24. oingoboingo thread starter macrumors 6502a

    oingoboingo

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    #24
    Yeah, I knew I would be able to run it on the G5, but as you say, exactly how fast will remain a mystery until ship date. It would be nice if ID Software were able to do some G5-specific optimisation (like providing a binary compiled with IBM's xlc or something similar), but who knows.

    I should just wait for the game to come out and stop posting pointless speculation about it on these boards :)
     
  25. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #25
    remember this is an open gl game it should shine on a mac, not like bad directx ports this should be a great mac game.

    and on medium settings it will definatly stay abouve 30fps it will probably require a 1.25GHz g4 on the box.
     

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