AP: We "dropped the ball" on Downing memo

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #1
    Salon op/ed

    i think this helps explain some things, though not all. it's interesting to me to learn just how much direction papers take from the wires in terms of what's news and not.

    i also wonder, with all the corporate takeovers of papers, how much cost-cutting has affected their ability to cover all the stories they want to.
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    It's worrying to think that you only have to knobble ten wire services to kill a story outright. Diversity of sources is our only protection against news manipulation.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    Why? Because it didn't involve a blowjob, or an attractive missing white woman of course! Some liberal media we've got.
     
  4. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #4
    Tell me Big Business doesnt run the whole show from Govt and Military to what is and isnt in the News and ill call you a liar. Its clear to most folks with IQ's above frogs that he wanted Iraq before 911. Now lets hear that republican spin and dogma. Face it we have a Big Time spinmaster leading the Republican Army of lemmings. Heck most of these people think Saddam did 911.
     
  5. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Actually, they had the story completely written, but the dog ate it.
     
  6. MontyZ macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    All this proves is that the press is lazy. If an everyday citizen can get info about this memo online and read it for themselves, how difficult would it be for a reporter to do a little reporting? They have no problem letting a male prostitute pretending to be a reporter on their news shows, but, they can't seem to manage a simple search on Google to investigate the biggest smoking gun about the lies we've all been fed. Probably because they are all themselves complicit.

    WIMPS!
     
  7. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #7
    I would say that it's our fault because the press is only giving us what we want. Sensationalism. It sells papers, gets ratings. Pandering to the lowest common denominator brings in the money.

    But I thought journalism was supposed to be about more than that. Guess I was wrong. Partisan hacks, and slaves to the corporate world. Brave new world people, better get used to it. Look at what CNet did to TV Tome.
     
  8. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #8
    that is the point. there was no 'mistake' of sorts. mainstream media is embedded in the conservative propaganda machinery.
    there is no independent press to speak of among the "big guys" here (let alone liberal) and it has been like that for a while.
    they added more and more ultra-right (a la fox) so they can call all the moderate conservatives "leftist".
    to get any appearance of balanced news we have to go to international sources, and possibly a several of them.
     
  9. MontyZ macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I don't think it's what WE want, it's what THEY want because they feel they can make more money. Plus, everything is scripted for the spokesmodels who read the news these days. There is no reporting. A press release from the White House is read verbatim as truth and news. Nothing is challenged or questioned, not even the most outrageous and ludicrous statements and lies. And now the most incredible pieces of evidence surface that Bush outright lied to the entire country, and it just gets shrugged off.

    Did anyone see the reaming Tony Blair took when he had his version of a town hall meeting before the UK election? That could never happen here now -- unless the President was a Democrat. Then it's open season, all guns blazing. Maybe the Dems should just try to convince Americans that Bush is really a Democrat. He'd be thrown in jail faster than a young black man.

    The hypocrisy is disgusting.
     
  10. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #10
    That's key anyway. Getting your news from any one or two sources is bad IMHO. You have to look around and sift through what you find and put it in as much context as you can and then try and make your own evaluations about what is going on in the world.

    Also, I would say that there definely is a lefty media out there... if you dig deep enough. You just won't find it in the MSM the way the right can. But there are lefty blogs and magazines and a little radio now. It's just a tiny fraction of what the righties control however. Just compare Rush's audience size to any lefty radio host's.
     
  11. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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    #11
    CNN actually convered the DSM this morning. Unfortunately it was with the tenacity of Grandma attacking a 72oz steak.
     
  12. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #12
    It's what the general population wants whether they admit it or not. Sensationalism isn't successful because no one watches it. Unfortunately showmanship has become a selling point for news. Why? Because, as a society, we let showmanship be a selling point for news.


    Lethal
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    The general population realize that if they really knew what was being done in their name, they'd all go and hang themselves. So they allow the media to persuade them everything's ok. The Matrix lives on.
     
  14. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #14
    Well, yes... that was kinda my point. :p It was late, I wasn't exactly clear on my implications. ;)

     
  15. katchow macrumors 6502

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    #15
    hey, i thought it was pretty clear the french knew it too :)
     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    More about "dropped balls" from Editor & Publisher:

    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000963759
     
  17. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #17
    What were the Democrats doing during all of this I Wonder? Prepping a Senator with no record except he was a hero in Vietnam? America hates Senators as Presidents Just as America hates being lied to. Bush is Over and the Republicans know it, But 5 years of Damage is 5 years of Damage, This is why we cant let either party run the whole show because they are both lost in their extremisms and special Interests.. They Both Suck but Republicans suck Worse at the moment.
     
  18. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #18
    It seems to me as if this is as near to prima facie evidence of conspiracy to take your country to war on false pretenses as you could get, short of Bush putting up his hands and saying "It's a fair cop". How much does it take to get an impeachment going? The world doesn't need another three years of this crap.
     
  19. Xtremehkr macrumors 68000

    Xtremehkr

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  20. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #20
    Essentially, an opposition majority in Congress. IOW, it isn't going to happen.
     
  21. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    So what we have is a President who clearly wanted Iraq before 911, and a congress of republicans who well let this NeoCon do whatever he wants even if its wrong or illegal. 911= Iraq,Osama = Saddam, and other spin. Democrats should be shouting at the top of their lungs but they arent. Why? because the Haliburtons,the Enrons and Boeing give as much money to the Democrats as Republicans. Congress doesnt represent people of America, Congress Represents Special Interest Corporations of the U.S.. Democracy for sale is as Bad as no Democracy.
     
  22. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #22
    I read what's purported to be The Memo. It appears that the damning part is the bit about fixed on intelligence about WMDs or some such wording. (I don't have the memo saved.)

    This can be read to mean that the intelligence about WMDs was manipulated or changed.

    It also can be read to mean that "fixed" was used in the sense of "focussed". If this latter usage is what was meant, it would explain the apparent lack of concern on the part of those at the meeting.

    'Rat
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #23
    Perhaps you should have read it more carefully:

    Hardly ambiguous.
     
  24. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #24
    Even if you can successfully argue for a more benign definition of "fixed" (perhaps our British English speakers can clear up any semantical differences between the way this word is used here vs. in Britain), the Downing Street Memo and the other associated documents make two important things perfectly clear:

    (1) It was recognized that an invasion of Iraq for the purpose of regime change was a clear violation of international law, and that some method would have to be found to divert around this roadblock, and;

    (2) That Bush had every intention of invading Iraq as early as March 2002, but deliberately misled both the Congress and the American people about his firm decision to do so for most of the following 12 months.

    I could add any number of damning facts the memos reveal, such as the effort to set up weapons inspections not as an effort to actually determine if Saddam had weapson, but as fig leaf for the invasion, but I suppose that can wait until we settle the all-important question of the relative meaning of the word "fixed" in the context in which it was used.
     
  25. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #25
    I don't see the semantics of "fixed" as "all important", IJ. It was just a point that had me curious. As far as your two points, I'll have to go back and read the memo again. It's been a while.

    Edit add about Point 1: Does International Law prohibit only unilateral action, or does it apply also to UN action? Or, is any action (by I.L. or the UN) limited to repelling invasion?

    This sorta ties in to the question about UN Resolutions: If they are ignored, how else but via regime change can they be enforced?

    And how is regime change in Iraq so different than regime change in the Balkans?

    'Rat
     

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