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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by zimv20, Sep 15, 2003.
Cripes, why don't they just wait until the next general election? Just like they should have done in the first place. Recalls are NOT a way to air your political stance (correct me if that's not what it's about). The election IS.
In the next town over from me, two city councillors are being recalled because they voted the wrong way (to some citiziens' minds) on a highway-planning issue. What BS.
the logical extension of that is to move to a referendum-based democracy, like the swiss.
somehow, i think i trust the populace less than the politicians. hm.
Recalls, at least in California, is provided for by the California Constitution, same as elections.
One is done in a regularly scheduled time, the other is done when the electorate wants it. I think that having an electorate decide that they don't want you in office is a good thing.
i seem to remember that same electorate largely opting to stay at home during the election.
so all it takes is one guy w/ a million bucks to suddenly get people interested in politics? what does that say about people's susceptability to negative advertising?
they didnt seem to mine using those same machines last election? Its just more of the same, democrats ,republicans their partys are bringing down america constantly. we get screwed everywhich way by both these guys.
I wish someone had sued over this issue after Bush v Gore. I think a lot of states have this problem, and it's just going to cause more trouble later on down the line in other places.
Better late than never.
I agree that the recall is a good thing, but it should only be used when somebody fails to uphold his oath of office, NOT just because somebody disagrees with his policies.
Well, it looks like the Supreme Court is going to take this one on. In special session no less.
Well, if that is the case, then whatever GWB and the republican party wants will happen.
Actually we'll have to wait and see if the Supremes want to accept this. My feeling is that they will, but who knows. They will surely be asked to take it.
Either way its a boost for Davis. If the recall is held in March who knows things will be. If the Supremes step in Davis gets to play the "Evil Republicans want to overturn another election" card.
They should just hold the election already and get it over with.
Back in the 1970s, Frances Farenthold (a gubernatorial candidate against Gov. Briscoe) and the liberals in general were generally favoring the idea of a constitutional amendment providing for Initiative and Referendum.
In one of the legislative watering holes, on night, the subject came up for discussion. I think it was Molly Ivins who overheard something along the lines of, "Initiative and Referendum? The next thing you know, these damned people will want to be governing themselves!"
For all that the Texas Lege was almost 100% Democrat back then, a lot of those old mossyhorns were off to the right of Jesse Helms...
I've always been amused--and dismayed--by those who yawp about the wisdom of the voter on election day (unless their candidate or party loses) but holds the judgement of that same group in contempt thereafter--until the next election. "Hypocrisy" will do.
I was hoping we'd just get this stupid recall election over and done with, and move onto the process of amending the California constitution to insure that it never happens this way again.
Just a small thought:
I find it highly suspect that the ACLU/9th Circuit Court chose this particular moment in time - less than a month from the recall to act on the suspect machines.
It's the timing, not the subject alone, that I find telling.
Everybody has a political axe to grind - there are no innocents here.
The legal challenges started immediately after the recall petitions were certified. This is the second or third stop for this case. So no, timing isn't suspect.
Why would we want to change the CA constitution? WE have a governor who lied about the size of the budget problems to get re-elected. when he knew the state was in financial problems he gave prison guards a 40% raise and changed the pension plan to allow those guards to retire at age 50 at their highest annual salary. Of course this raise and pension change came after the union gave a nice donation to the Davis re-election campaign. don't believe the story that the only reason this recall is happening is that some people don't like Gray's policies. There are good reason to vote the bum out.
I don't believe anyone's "story" and don't need the situation explained to me. I did not vote for Davis in the last election, but still believe this recall is one of the most idiotic political exercises I have ever witnessed. When a Constitutional amendment is proposed, I will almost certainly vote for it.
The reasons for the recall are that Gov. Davis is an idiot, a fool, and a horrible politican who has political opponents that are willing to bankroll a scheme to circumvent a legal election. I guess you can tell I don't like Davis, but I'm voting no on the recall and for Bustamante - just in case this scheme works.
By the way, those counties that have the punch card ballot account for "only" 44% of the electorate. Might be a good reason to delay this mess? I don't want a replay of Florida to compound this nightmare.
Aw, now, Sayhey, don't bring up the Florida ballots. "Only Republicans survived the Titanic; they were the only ones to follow the arrows to the lifeboats."
Have any of y'all followed the unfolding controversy developing over the Diebold electronic voting machines? Maybe run Google for "Jim March" or "Jim March + Diebold". Anyhow, their security sucks and any halfway competent hacker can get in and play with the tallies.
Never a dull moment...
'Rat, there has already been a couple of threads on the Diebold machines, including their lack of security against tampering and the President of the Company's endorsement of Bush.
Sorry, I think the Florida experience is germane. Experts say that as much as 40,000 votes could be invalidated in some of the largest counties in the State through use of these machines. Given the closeness of this race both in the top candidates polling numbers and the overall choice on recalling Davis those "lost" votes could change the fate of California for the next few years. As a resident I would prefer to wait and do it right.
Apparently so. The appeals court's decision was based on the precedent in Bush v. Gore.
The problem isn't in the machines. The problem in in user error with people who don't push the pin in hard enough. Also people who don't check their ballot after they take it out of the machine to make sure they voted the way they wanted to vote and there are no hanging chads. No voting system is going to be fool proof for people who don't take the time to read the instructions on the proper use of the voting machine. I think part of the process of being an informed voter is knowing how to properly use the voting machine.
Well, sorta, IJ. Florida, it was what votes should or shouldn't have been tossed. Cali, it's the possible complications that *might* lead to the same questions. And I can see where the arrangement of the names and arrows could have been confusing, in Florida.
Separately: If you went back to paper and pencil, and stipulate it takes two full days to do the count: Who would be harmed besides the "sensibilities" of the mediahhh folks?
The reason I ask: In Terlingua, the Brewster County results for local elections, and how we voted for statewide or national candidates, aren't reported except in our weekly paper--which comes out on Thursday in Alpine and arrives "down south" around noon. So, for local stuff, "We don't know nuttin'," for a couple of days. But, we live through it...
But don't we have something like that already? If a politician commits crimes or inappropriate behavior in office, there are rules in just about every constitution for dealing with it.
Thats why I don't understand the recall process. Its simply a way for a voting populace to get rid of a candidate they put in office simply because they don't like what he is doing. I don't trust the average voter to be able to make those kind of decisions. I barely trust them to elect the "right" candidate in the first place.
Too true. In fact, it seems these last 40 years-or-so of federal elections, it's not about the 'best' candidate, it's about voting for the 'least bad'.