Apple and Google, Like Microsoft, Reserve Right to Read Customer Emails

[runeapple]

This really pisses me off. One of the reasons I use Apple over anyone else is because they are supposed to care about your privacy over all else. I like Tim overall but I'm a little perturbed by his diplomacy, and he's contradicting "Take us out in a box" statement.

I'm not a fan of Tim Cook and all, but this clause has always been present even under Steve Jobs, literally every vendor of online mail has this clause - even if you have mail on your own website the chances are the hosting company has the write to read your mail (they certainly have the ability to)

The government, and ISP's can see what you know exactly what you're looking at and have the write to disclose this information.

I'm sure most mobile providers also have the clause to disclose text message information

The list gones on, if you want something to be private do not put it on the internet in any form.

You are deluded if you think you're safe because it's apple - what I will say is you will still be safer with Apple - as they are much less likely to care about your email content then Google.

I'm going to stop writing now, enjoy

 

[Nuvi]

Many European countries have very strict privacy laws which forbids anyone else other then intended recipient from reading or otherwise accessing the email. This means EULA which grants MS, Google etc. right to read users email is meaningless in countries like these. Even if you accept the EULA it's still not valid since it's against the law.

 

[aajeevlin]

So does anyone have a good email client (with more privacy protection)? Or we are just all helpless here?

 

[ralphdaily]

I don't care if Apple reads my email. It's mostly junk.

 

[LukasValine]

This is why I run my own mail server.

 

[13astion]

So get the damn court order!

My problem is this:
"...prompting the company to make a statement on its investigation policies, pledging not to read customer emails except in circumstances where a court order would be justified and vowing to announce such searches in its bi-annual transparency report."

1) Corporations are NOT transparent. Period. If you are going to believe a "transparency" report that was not conducted by a 3rd-party auditor, you're deluding yourself. Even then, I'd be suspicious.

2) "except ... where a court order would be justified" -- so get the damn court order. You want transparency, then make the paper trail required to get a judge to agree that you can snoop on your customer's private communications. So, we're leaving it up to a corporation to decide for the judge? It's the same with phone communication: Verizon can't just snoop your calls and voicemail to "protect their property". They can only do it to comply with authorities (with a court order) or if they get their own court order. Should be the same with electronic communications. Somebody mentioned the USPS opening your mail -- again, they can't do it on a whim -- there has to be cause, and that cause has to be of legal concern ... not a witch hunt to fire an employee for having violated their employment terms.

IMO, it's more of a caution to people. The tools exist to prevent this from being a problem. ENCRYPT your email if the contents are important to be kept private!

Honestly, if you don't encrypt the contents, you simply don't know who might be looking at it. Apple, Google or anyone else could announce policies tomorrow promising they don't read your email. But that won't stop a rogue employee, in charge of working on the mail servers, from randomly looking at some of it. In fact, there may be instances where an email admin might look at some of it specifically to help fix mail routing issues. (Only interested in what's in the message headers, or looking to see if certain text is in there that's triggering a junk mail filter they're trying to tweak, or ??)

If the admin never admits to doing it, it "never happened" from the company's perspective -- yet someone DID in fact read your message.

 

[Rigby]

If you were to use PGP to encrypt/decrypt your messages, wouldn't this restore your privacy?

Even if you encrypt, they can still see with whom you communicated, which might be just as informative in a leak or whistleblower investigation. There are almost no forms of communication left that cannot be surveiled in bulk, unfortunately.

 

[cclloyd]

I have nothing to hide. But still...

As long as they only access it for good reason. And I mean GOOD reason.

 

[dec.]

If Samsung had something similar, general madness and desperation would be all over.

But hey, it's Apple. All cool.

There is some truth to Samsung being mentioned on the first page of pretty much any thread here ...

 

[the-msa]

Who cares? You cannot live your life in constant paranoia.

thats your view now, now that you learned that your godlike company apple is literally not different than any other

 

[cclloyd]

how is that even legal? if my landlord were to put a clause in the contract to search my flat while i am gone it wouldnt mean a thing even if i signed it cuz its simply not allowed

and to the people saying "who cares" ugh ... its the first step into what SciFi movies r made off. reporter finds something out about xy - police state is going to delete all traces of it in the name of "national security". just take a look at Turkey

"busted for corruption. lol lets take down twitter"

The Patriot Act (American law). It's called sneak-and-peek. They can search your home with a warrent while you're not home and not even tell you that you were searched.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Apple is more than welcome to read my iCloud email. I'm sure they will find it even more tedious and dull than I do.

 

[marvin4653]

how is that even legal? if my landlord were to put a clause in the contract to search my flat while i am gone it wouldnt mean a thing even if i signed it cuz its simply not allowed

and to the people saying "who cares" ugh ... its the first step into what SciFi movies r made off. reporter finds something out about xy - police state is going to delete all traces of it in the name of "national security". just take a look at Turkey

"busted for corruption. lol lets take down twitter"

I can't speak to Germany or Spain, but in the United States, generally speaking, assuming you were found to have agreed to the clause, it sure would.

 

[DaveN]

Big difference here between Google which reads all email and Microsoft and Apple which may read and share your email when required by the law.

 

[bsolar]

The disclaimer is worded to be very broad: basically Apple can disclose whatever it wants simply claiming it "believed in good faith" that it covers one of the many points listed. Apple could have restricted the disclaimer to state that customer information or content will be disclosed if and only if legally required to do so and in no other cases: that would have sent a strong message putting Apple on the frontline of customers' privacy protection.

Said that, it's not exactly shocking news.

 

[thefourthpope]

So does anyone have a good email client (with more privacy protection)? Or we are just all helpless here?

This is kind of my question as well. (I haven't read the Guardian article yet). I wonder if this pertains only to emails on my iCloud account, or does it allow apple to read any emails that I have in my Mail app?

 

[bsolar]

I can't speak to Germany or Spain, but in the United States, generally speaking, assuming you were found to have agreed to the clause, it sure would.

Agreeing on a clause doesn't mean the clause is enforceable, it can happen that a clause violates a superior law: in that case typically it's declared void even if it was signed willingly and the rest of the contract is still valid. Not sure about the specific case in the U.S., but in my country too (and I guess in all Europe) a landlord cannot get into the flat of a tenant unless with the tenant's permission or in case of emergency. Any clause in the contract exceding that would be declared void if brought in front of a judge.

 

[snowleopardxman]

I find this very invasive. it's not right and is hypocritical. they can look at my emails? but if I look at them I go to jail? BS! seriously. I remember a story where a guy went to jail for looking at his girlfriends emails and was spying on her! these companies. should have the same consequences.

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Apple, Yahoo, and Google all have terms of service that allow them to read users' emails if necessary, according to research done by The Guardian. Apple's iCloud Terms and Conditions includes a clause that gives Apple permission to disclose Account information and Content, including iCloud email, when necessary by law, to address security, fraud, or technical issues, or to protect the rights and property of Apple.Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft's terms of service all contain similar wording granting the technology companies unfettered access to content. The Guardian initially began investigating the rights of major companies to access user email after Microsoft looked through the personal Hotmail account of a blogger in order to discover the source of a Windows 8 leak.

Microsoft employee Alex Kibkalo was found sending a tech blogger parts of Windows 8 code back in 2012, allowing the blogger to access screenshots of the operating system, which were then posted online. Microsoft fired Kibkalo, but its methods of discovery were questioned, prompting the company to make a statement on its investigation policies, pledging not to read customer emails except in circumstances where a court order would be justified and vowing to announce such searches in its bi-annual transparency report.

While it is Microsoft that's under fire for reading the email of its users, as mentioned above, Apple, Google, and Yahoo have the same rights to access content under questionable conditions. Apple does not mention whether or not it accesses iCloud email for non-security reasons in its own transparency reports and it is unclear whether the company has accessed private content in the search for leaks.

Apple is a notoriously secretive company, however, going to great lengths to protect its upcoming products. According to Apple CEO Steve Jobs, product secrecy is one of the specific tenets that has been responsible for Apple's success, and in 2012, Tim Cook said the company would "double down on secrecy on products."

Nevertheless, Apple has had a hard time keeping leaks under wraps. The iPhone 5s and the iPhone 5c were both unveiled long before their release, and more recently, some significant iOS 8 leaks have come to light.

Apple and Google both opted not to comment to The Guardian on the clauses in their Terms of Services, but all customers opt-in to possible searches when signing up for an email account with either company.

Article Link: Apple and Google, Like Microsoft, Reserve Right to Read Customer Emails

 

[IJ Reilly]

This is kind of my question as well. (I haven't read the Guardian article yet). I wonder if this pertains only to emails on my iCloud account, or does it allow apple to read any emails that I have in my Mail app?

Only the email that passes through their servers, meaning iCloud only. No need to be quite so paranoid.

 

[Konrad9]

This why email needs the same level of federal protection as mail sent through the USPS.

 

[Msail30bay]

How about using certain accounts in only certain places, not at home or work and Draft Mode without sending the emails…….???? Just asking.

 

[dragje]

This is why I run my own mail server.

what kind if I may ask?

 

[marvin4653]

Agreeing on a clause doesn't mean the clause is enforceable, it can happen that a clause violates a superior law: in that case typically it's declared void even if it was signed willingly and the rest of the contract is still valid. Not sure about the specific case in the U.S., but in my country too (and I guess in all Europe) a landlord cannot get into the flat of a tenant unless with the tenant's permission or in case of emergency. Any clause in the contract exceding that would be declared void if brought in front of a judge.

If a tenant agrees to such a clause, the tenant is giving the landlord permission to enter. As you noted, such laws do not forbid a landlord from entering if the tenant gives the landlord permission.

As I mentioned in my post, this is assuming that the tenant was aware that the clause was included in the lease. If not, the clause may not be enforceable because the tenant may not be deemed to have agreed to the clause.

 

[dragje]

Only the email that passes through their servers, meaning iCloud only. No need to be quite so paranoid.

Well, I'm not paranoia that's for sure, but I do think my e-mails concerns no others then the ones I'm sending it too. It's just a principal point.

 

[cowbellallen]

Yahoo does it to. I had a Yahoo Merchant account (basically I host my ecommerce website with them), and they would log in and read my emails. I was on the phone with them while they did it, but they could have done it without me. They didn't ask me my password, only my username.

Kinda freaked me out a bit because Yahoo Merchant Services is something seemingly isolated from the big Yahoo platform.