Apple and Philips TV - Apple branded home entertainment system?

Discussion in 'Hardware Rumors' started by gopher, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. gopher macrumors 65816

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  2. vniow macrumors G4

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    #2
    I doubt we'll see an Apple brand TV, but maybe a sticker on a Phillips that says Powered by Apple, or something like that. I think the article misquotes that Jaguar itself will be used in HES, but Rendevous most definately will. It's very good news, though.:)
     
  3. Mr. Anderson Moderator emeritus

    Mr. Anderson

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    #3
    And what would then be the digital hub? Could you control your tv/stereo with your mac? But an airport card in it some where and its networked?

    That would be pretty damn cool......

    D
     
  4. xelterran macrumors 6502

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    #4
    sounds very cool.. any idea how much these things would cost??
     
  5. vniow macrumors G4

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    #5
    You can already do that, sort of. Mostly with PCs, but with something like Rendevous, It'll make thing a helluva lot easier.:)


    I posted a similar article at THE place to discuss a Home Theatre computer, the AVS Forum.
    click me
     
  6. rainman::|:| macrumors 603

    rainman::|:|

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    #6
    i think the best way for it to work is that the computer controls the theatre system, but is also accessed through the system, perhaps a simplified X platform that is only for media controlling, and is run from the computer. Airport should be used to link the main box (EQ, whatever) to the computer itself. The real question i have is what true advantages this has over present day systems-- certainly not costs... i guess you could enter your schedule into your PDA, it bluetooths to the computer and you see your iCalendar on the TV, or you can bring your ipod to a friend's house and play your songs without plugging anything in... in about any scenario, bluetooth plays a major role, i think...

    :)
    pnw
     
  7. vniow macrumors G4

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    #7
    The advantages would be that if you hooked up your computer as the core of your HTS (home theatre system), you can do a lot more than just watch TV, movies and listen to music. There's a program for PCs called DScaler that deinterlaces an analog signal when it's being viewed on your screen and greatly improves the image.
    With good software, you can also turn it into a DVR with full TIVO-like functionality.
    The computer already has progressive-scan output, so DVD's look better than a low-end interlaced player and when tweaked right, can look as good or even better that a high end progresive-scan player.
    PCs also have a few HDTV cards to choose from that let you watch and record it in it's native resolution.
    Imagine if you had a Mac with Airport and a Phillips a/v reciever with it also, you could stream all your playlists wirelessly and hear them in surround-sound glory.
    The main advantage to all this is archiving. One thing you can't do with ordinary HT equipment is archive. TIVO and other DVRs do somewhat, but it's difficult to get them off of the boxes and save them to a firewire drive or something. With a HTPC or Mac, you can archive every TV show you record, every sond you rip and every DVD you watch. That's the main reason why this is a good thing.
    Although, you'll run out of space quickly, but that's what 320 GB drives are for.:p
     
  8. mymemory macrumors 68020

    mymemory

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    #8
    If Apple continues like that, producing fancy peripherals in palce of computers as it shuld be by the en of next year we are gonna see infomertials overflood by Apple products and with 1.4 GHz powermacs in the market.

    Apple is doing a smoke bomb because of its incapacity of producing computers faster than PC's and trying to develop a OS superior and efficient than OS9.

    BECAUSE JAGUAR IS NOT AS RELIABLE, FLEXIBLE, COMPATIBLE AND FRIENDLY THAN OS 9 !!!
     
  9. vniow macrumors G4

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    #9
    Oh hush. You can bitch and complain about Jaguar and no more OS9 all you want, it's not going to bring it back. If you want to run it then run it. Don't go off bitching about it. Where Apple is headed with these 'fancy peripherals' as you so elegantly call them, is the future of home computing. In 5 years there won't be 'personal computers' anymore, there will be a bunch of fancy peripherals interconnected like what Apple and Phillips are doing with Rendevous. You go and run your OS9 if you want, Apple's not going to stop you.
     
  10. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #10
    A computer is not just about speed, or thousands of programs, but the user experience. Apple works harder than anyone else on this part of making using a computer, much less living your life, easier.

    As for Jaguar, I'll just start by saying that although it might not be as compatible with tons and tons of old, slow, legacy code, it certainly is more reliable, flexible, and friendly than OS 9 ever was. Try to do intensive processing in more than 2 apps with OS 9, and print in another... It just doesn't work. When your Mac is working to open a large file, it can't do much else on OS 9 (or at least the last time I used it, I couldn't...)

    The UNIX underpinnings of OS X make it far more reliable and flexible than OS 9. You can control almost every aspect of the OS. If you want your computer to read a certain file system, just drop a certain file in a certain folder, and you're ready to go... I'll leave the rest of this to people with more knowledge with Jaguar...

    As for Rendezvous, this sounds awesome. I know that there are people with 'wired' homes, but they cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you have to configure everything manually... With Rendezvous, (I'm not sure how it works, but this would be a good way...) you could be able to plug in your TV or receiver to a network, or have it connected wirelessly, and the computer sees the device, and the device says "I use Rendezvous", and then downloads necessary controls, or drivers, or whatever onto the computer, from the device. That way, you don't have to worry about installing drivers yourself. So, while you're listening to your music on your home stereo from your computer with no wires, and printing from a network printer with no configuration at all whatsoever, and either watching TV on a computer through the TV tuner, or watching a movie from your computer on the TV, all of your pee-cee friends will be there with their 2.5ghz hot-plates with neon lights, and clear plastic cases, trying to install video card drivers, and configure a printer...

    As Janie Porche says: "My PC wasn't plug-n-play. It was Plug-n-Get-Mad.", or "Who wants to install windows drivers on christmas evening?"
     
  11. peterjhill macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

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    #11
    Rendezvous enables stereos, cool, I cant wait until people go wardriving for stereos. I hope that you have to do something with the remote control, or on the box to "tune" into rendezvous, otherwise people in apartments can have alot of fun sending obnoxious stuff to other peoples stereos.

    I'll start sending "Speed Racer" by Alpha Team, or you can rip the audio from a porn video. I hope that philips thinks this through. Oh, yeah, with the TV, that could be fun. It would be like fight club. 24th of a second images of porn.

    I am not saying I want to do this, but part of my job is to be paranoid about security, and these are things people will try to do.
     
  12. Chaszmyr macrumors 601

    Chaszmyr

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    #12
    mymemory, you might be onto something... Maybe OS9 is better than Jaguar... hey now that i think about it i will trade in my ddr powermac for an apple iie
     
  13. rugby macrumors regular

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    chicago
    #13
    Rendezvous/zeroconf are subnet only, so you won't be able to send movies to your neighbor as they'll probably be on a different subnet. Here's my post copy/pasted from the mac expor Paris thread:

    ftp://ftp.ipv6.org/pub/rfc/rfc1924.txt

    and http://www.ipv6.org

    IP addresses as we know it are 32-bit addresses (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx). We are running out of those addresses fast. IPv6 will alleviate that problem (it does more than that but I digress)
    IPv6 will introduce 128-bit addresses which if they were written out in long form would look like (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx). However, since remembering that many digits may prove a bit daunting for people they have come up with a summary scheme that will reduce addresses down to (1080::8:800:200C:417A) incorporating hexadecimal values in place of numbers. While this may still look complicated, it's far easier than the entire #.

    Now, we come to Rendezvous. Go here http://www.zeroconf.org/ and learn about the technology Rendezvous is based on. Fascinating stuff, like auto-discovery or devices on local subnets and interoperability of different computers on levels that are mindblowing. Here comes the problem. IP addresses. Since most people have to run NAT on their routers at home (for broadband connections of course) these devices aren't accessible to anything outside. Now, enter IPv6 and all 100 billion IP addresses (rough guess). All of a sudden, every device in your house can have a public IP address (not 10.x.x.x, 172.16.x.x or 192.168.x.x) and everything is accessible from everywhere. If you put a meatloaf in the oven, your oven can utilize your broadband connection to get specific cooking instructions from the manufacturer's database. If you have tv problems, the manufacturer can get into your tv from their main system and check it out.

    And of course all of this can be controlled from your Mac
     
  14. gopher thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Jaguar is much faster than anything I've ever seen in Mac OS 9. Finding files is a piece of cake. Multiple Find File windows with Jaguar, and you can custom search any way you like. And because it is integrated with the Finder you can move files back and forth with drag and drop with more ease than you could with Sherlock. It is faster than Mac OS 8.0 Find. And it instantly responds to quiting a file search. Don't judge Jaguar based on previous versions of Mac OS X. It really is worth $300 for all you can do with it. If you are having trouble with speed with Jaguar, it could be due to a haxie that hasn't been updated for Jaguar. Older versions of Windowshade slow Jaguar down. It has been updated.
     
  15. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #15
    Rendezvous seems like really cool technology, but I see only one problem...

    microsoft...


    I don't know if they have plans to support Rendezvous, but I can tell you right now, that they will have something like it soon, and if it isn't Rendezvous, then we're screwed... Unless the major electronics manufacturers say "we will only use Rendezvous, because it is an open standard", and essentially f*ck microsoft over, because we all know how microdick feels about open standards... If they can't have complete control over it, then it sucks, and it's bad...
     
  16. j763 macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Yes, this does present a problem for apple. If Microsoft develops their own propriotary standard, companies are more likely to adopt that. This is why Apple is trying to push Rendezvous and get companies to agree to it. If a MS standard was adopted instead, we'd be completely and totally screwed with our macs, because as we know, microsoft's commitment to the mac is the mac software they make... They really need to come up with a new slogan. but i digress. if apple can get hp, philips, epson etc.etc.etc. to adopt rendezvous in their h/w, they'll just have rendezvous s/w available for win32, so they don't need to change their h/w for win32 machines. So, let's get to building this h/w, so these companies are *truly commited* to rendezvous!
     
  17. peterjhill macrumors 65816

    peterjhill

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    #17
    Two things:

    Microsoft and Rendezvous. Microsoft does not need to support Rendezvous. There is no reason that someone could not come up with a Rendezvous Network Driver for Windows. I think that it would be quite possible. It does not need to operate at the kenel level. It can operate in userland quite well, I would guess.

    Next... About Rendezvous, ipv6, and philips... I subscribe to the Rendezvous mailing list, and Stuart Cheshire, the chair of the zeroconf working group, along with other apple employees, explained very well how it will require some user intervention to get devices onto a wireless network using zeroconf, if you want to have any kind of trust. If you have a closed wireless network, or are using a WEP key, any method that zeroconf would use to get that information to your printer, tv, or stereo, would allow a hacker to use the same method to get onto your network, thus allowing the hacker to use devices on your network, with the same default permissions that you would have over your own equipment. Pretty obvious, isn't it. Now, the solution would be that there would be a need for some initial configuration for wireless only in order to get your stereo securely onto your wireless network. You would need to have the ability to give the device your SSID and WEP key. Or are they saying that these devices will only work on open networks, that hand out the SSID to anyone, and do not use WEP, therefore, being susceptible to hackers.

    zeroconf, wireless, and security... pick two

    As for ipv6, it is great. everyone will be able to have a globally routable ipv6 address. Not only that, but ipv6 also has a concept of a link-local address, that is only good on the same subnet. Ideal for your blender, or other things that you don't want to control from outside your house.

    Here is my unique ipv6, globally routable address:
    2001:468:204:200:203:93ff:fe80:2426

    As a matter of fact, you should be able to
    dig -t AAAA titan.net.cmu.edu
    and resolve the address.

    Oh, another thing about zeroconf and rendezvous. There is no reason that it needs to be limited to a local subnet. It depends on how applications implement it. Global multicast routing is not prevalant, nor is the standard for choosing global addresses widely adopted.
     
  18. chubakka macrumors regular

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    #18
    open standards

    I think more companies are less willing to be beholden to Microsoft technology. Dell and Sony dropping Office as the included suite of software is one example. With options like linux in the server arena, companies are much more willing to skip microsoft and its licensing and price gouging tactics.

    For how long did the PC world put off integration of firewire?
    Electronics companies saw the advantages and ignored the PC world's reluctance to use it. And now it's the standard. And now they're trying to foist USB 2.0 on us as an alternative.

    Electronics companies see the advantages of a given technology and run with it... they don't wait for the approval of Microsoft, lack efficient plug and play features make them less likely to be a factor.
    PC's by nature do not function as well as macs as a digital hub.
    Although there is a much greater number of PCs in the world...
    nothing about thier interaction with other devices is easy.

    Phillips understands an important aspect of apple hardware and software...
    IT JUST WORKS. That makes apple's open standard Rendezvous even more appealing.
     
  19. Chisholm macrumors regular

    Chisholm

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    #19
    So long as my toaster doesn't require a hard drive, I'll be fine.
     
  20. Thirteenva macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    You can make the text as big as you want, but your credibility just keeps dropping. You've posted this in multiple places now.

    You've obviously never used jaguar if you believe that and you have no factual basis behind your statement. Had you used both systems equally you'd find your statement is quite wrong, both in facts and in reality. If you can't contribute intelligently and without shouting your uneducated opinions at others, then go else where. OS X is the future of the mac and if you really don't like i then go buy a PC and troll there message boards...

    I think dell might be having a sale....:rolleyes:
     
  21. dwishbone macrumors regular

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    #21
    i think rendezvous will be adopted over anything Microshaft comes up with.

    Look at how adopted Firewire/iLink was.
    It is still the best digital input device and will only become better with Firewire 2.

    Rendezvous is a piece of cake, and Apple likes to say "Just Works".

    I am having visions of a totally Rendezvous enable life. TVs, Stereos, PDAs, Printers, Toasters, Fridge, Blender, and on and on.
    It will be able to make home automation a sinch.

    The life of the future is near.
     
  22. G4scott macrumors 68020

    G4scott

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    #22
    It is nice to see that many companies are adopting Rendezvous as a standard. The thing that I think is funny, yet sad, is that intel is trying to pass off usb 2 as a super fast, video and hard drive connector, but in all reality, it's still a serial bus, best for mice and keyboards... Hopefully when Firewire 2 comes out, it will be backwards compatible with regular Firewire, and digital device makers will be more willing to use it more than the cheap USB 2 connection...

    Let's hear it for Rendezvous!!!
     
  23. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #23
    Oh, it's not really a matter of credibility. It's a matter of perspective, specifically that our Venezuelan pal has been steadily losing perspective for a while now. He decided early on that he didn't like OS X in a totally subjective "I prefer chocolate to vanilla" sort of way. Over time he's gotten more and more anti-X and more and more vocal about it. I think he's working to rationalize his subjective dislike into a set of objective shortcomings, which unfortunately means that it's not enough that he doesn't use OS X. He's got to convince the rest of us that we're blind fools for not feeling the same way as he does about the subject.

    I like mymemory, really I do. But I've gotten the feeling he's just one of those people for whom anything that's a change from what he's used to is automatically Bad.
     
  24. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #24
    Microsoft did develop their own standard some time ago. It's called "Universal Plug and Play," and it seems to have gone absolutely nowhere, despite an allegedly open standard and an industry organization (Philips is on the UPnP steering committee as well). The only thing I recall ever making news with regard to UPnP was when Microsoft shipped Windows XP with the service enabled by default, opening a colossal security hole.

    I'm not familiar with how Apple is handling dissemination of Rendezvous technology, but they've shown they have at least some concept of the proven reality that successful industry standards are a function of openness more than of technical superiority or the industry clout of the originator of the proposed standard. Witness how Jabber may yet become the industry standard for instant messaging, even though AIM is the de facto standard on users' desktops and the company controlling AIM is one of the most enormous on the planet. I don't think we have to worry about Microsoft ever learning this lesson. For one, if they ever did they'd be a much less loathsome company, but mainly they'll never figure it out because they're too intent on owning everything in the world.
     
  25. Thirteenva macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    With all due respect, I understand what you are saying but i disagree.

    When somebody posts the same redundant, ignorant and in this case off topic answer in multiple threads, then they do lose a great deal of credibility on the given subject matter regardless of there perspective on it. I guess thats just my perspective though.
     

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