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RafaelT

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2010
1,169
15
NM
Everyone is arguing about whether or not Apple can sue them to protect the developers.... Here are two things to consider.

1. There is nothing stopping Apple from sending it's lawyers to represent each of the developers. Apple can do whatever it likes with it's legal team. Or they can use a tiny fraction of their huge stockpile of cash to hire any lawyer they want to defend these guys.

2. Lodsys and Apple do have some sort of agreement. Apple clearly believes the agreement covers the developers, you think they can't sue over that?
 

Popeye206

macrumors 68040
Sep 6, 2007
3,148
836
NE PA USA
Good for Apple. I'll be interested to see how Lodsys responds.

Side note: I had to re-read Hockenberry's first tweet a few times. At first I thought it was very NSFW. :eek:

ROFL! I thought the same thing on the first tweet! Double take! :eek:

As for Lodsys's response... I'm sure their lawyers are scrambling to see if their pockets are deep enough to even try.

Good for Apple to take the lead on this. But it makes sense.
 

Popeye206

macrumors 68040
Sep 6, 2007
3,148
836
NE PA USA
Everyone is arguing about whether or not Apple can sue them to protect the developers.... Here are two things to consider.

1. There is nothing stopping Apple from sending it's lawyers to represent each of the developers. Apple can do whatever it likes with it's legal team. Or they can use a tiny fraction of their huge stockpile of cash to hire any lawyer they want to defend these guys.

2. Lodsys and Apple do have some sort of agreement. Apple clearly believes the agreement covers the developers, you think they can't sue over that?

I would assume that Apple could only counter sue if there were damages based on their actions. Otherwise, all they can do is get Lodsys to just stop pursuing their developers.
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,473
8,170
Somewhere
I would assume that Apple could only counter sue if there were damages based on their actions. Otherwise, all they can do is get Lodsys to just stop pursuing their developers.

I'm pretty sure that Apple could claim that by threatening their developers they scare people away from iOS thus creating damages to Apple and giving them an excuse to sue.
 

0815

macrumors 68000
Jul 9, 2010
1,793
1,065
here and there but not over there
Though I do agree that the patent is a load of bull and should just be abandoned all together, I don't think Apple has much of a point in their counter-case. Just because Apple is licensed, doesn't mean all the apps are. Apple would be licensing their OS and their own apps, not all the apps on their OS. If that were the case, then no software company should ever get sued, it should be the OS writers for providing an OS with the ability to do said patented idea.

I think you would be right if the developers had implemented their own system of in-app-purchase with their own developer owned server infrastructure. But the case here is that Apple build the API and server infrastructure and everything around it - everything developed and owned (and licensed where needed) by Apple. The small developer is just a 'user' of that infrastructure and therefor does not need to pay for a license since it is already payed for - patent owners can't charge both the producer and the user for the license. Again: this is for developers using apples infrastructure which is already licensed ... not for home made in-app purchases mechanism (which anyway wouldn't be allowed in the app store)
 

Amazing Iceman

macrumors 603
Nov 8, 2008
5,289
4,040
Florida, U.S.A.
To those who complain about the "Apple Tax"

What a crock. The App store was created out of whole cloth by Apple. The devs were invited to come play after the foundation was laid, and provided all of the tools they needed to make money. Apple said, "You want a safe place to build your products, come on in. Just pay us for the fact that we developed the concept, and we built the infrastructure." A mobster comes in after the fact, when you have already built your business, and offers you "protection" to stay in business.

How much money would most of these devs be making if Apple hadn't started the App store? I suppose that eBay was a "mob" idea, too?

This is the mentality that has this country on the brink of ruin. The thought that companies like Apple, who build the infrastructure to make money for their shareholders are somehow less for doing so.

Grow up.
Apparently some people complain a out an Apple Tax without realizing what the typical requirements are for a developer who wants to make create an app and sell it on his own:

- Buy Visual Studio (or alternative product) and every upgrade that comes out.
- Create your own website and pay for hosting every month.
- Implement a software delivery engine with a Key generator or other mechanism to protect your app against piracy.
- Implement a Shopping Cart for your Website
- Pay monthly fees to take credit cards (the higher the volume, the lower the fees, so make sure to sell enough).
- Protect your site, maintain (upgrades, fixes, patches, etc.) it and monitor it to make sure it doesn't get hacked.
- Pay to advertise your website and push it up on the Search Engines for people to find it.
- Build a reputation for your website so people wouldn't be afraid to enter their credit card number and personal information each time they need to make a payment.
- if you don't know how to do some of the steps above, you'll need to pay someone to do them for you (a college boy may do these starting at $30.00/hr hopefully he knows how to do these tasks right).
- Hope your clients don't bail out during the lengthy Checkout Process.
- Make a sale, get paid sale price minus 2-3% for Credit Card fees.
- Find time to write more apps and grow your business.
- The a part-time job to pay for monthly expenses.

Considering the above, I wouldn't mind paying 30% Apple Tax at all if all I got to do is:
- Pay $100.00 Developer Program fee
- Develop App with free tools provided by Apple, free upgrades.
- Submit App to Apple.
- Get paid minus 30% commission to Apple.
- Keep writing more apps.
 

Photics

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2011
172
0
Just one way how developers benefit from the store: Gift cards. People get iTunes gift cards for Christmas, birthdays, and so on, and they use that money to buy apps. Without the App Store, there is no way that developers would get a share of that money.

It's not just the gift cards.
  • Apple handles the e-commerce.
  • Apple helps markets the apps (Getting featured is still one of the best ways for an app to be popular.)
  • Apple created the hardware on which the apps run.
  • Apple created software to make the apps.

Sure, the relationship is symbiotic. The iPhone / iPad is popular because there are great apps on iOS. Yet, Apple does a great job. I've had a much better experience developing for the iTunes App Store than the Android Market.
 

gschumsky

macrumors member
Jul 16, 2002
91
0
San Diego (Jamul), Ca
Nice! Even though Lodsys owns the patent, it would always be smart for them, or anyone who owns a patent and then licenses it, to read it before attacking people for patent infringement. They knew they couldn't go after Apple, since a: They already licensed it to them, and b: Apple is too big; but they probably thought "We're going to be short on our quarterly's- who do we go after? Ah, the little guys who don't know the license and we can scare the crud out of them with a lot of legal mumbo-jumbo!"
Of course they didn't figure the app developers would go to Apple for help, and of course this stunk the minute they sent the letters out.
App Developers:1
Lodsys and other patent holders: 0
 

JAT

macrumors 603
Dec 31, 2001
6,473
124
Mpls, MN
you will notice that Apple's response letter does not directly quote any language from the licensing agreement which states that Apple has been licensed to provide the APIs to third parties. Rather, Apple merely broadly asserts that there is no dispute as to the fact that Applie has "licensed" the IP. This seems like a deliberate obfuscation.
Well, it takes one to know one, of course. And IANAL. But Apple appears to have said more than just "we are licensed".
Apple Letter said:
the technology that is targeted in your notice letters is technology that Apple is expressly licensed under the Lodsys patents to offer to Apple’s App Makers.
Would Sewell really make a mistake like that?
 

Mal

macrumors 603
Jan 6, 2002
6,252
18
Orlando
So of course, IANAL, but if Apple believes that the devs are covered under their license, could they not sue for breach of contract if Lodsys is suing someone already covered under the license that Apple negotiated? I've seen a lot of talk that Apple couldn't sue based on them harassing their developers or harming their ecosystem, which I can understand, but I didn't remember seeing this option talked about. Seems that if Lodsys actually tries to sue a developer, they could be getting more than they bargained for.

jW
 
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